R.I.P. - U.S. Open

[JAM]

...If enough fans show up, then maybe next year the pros will receive a percentage of the gate and will actually be paid to appear....

I doubt I will ever see this in my lifetime, although it's a nice thought!

Personally, I don't know how any of today's dedicated pool promoters, especially the independents, make a profit on professional pool events. I have heard that some feel fortunate when they break even.

The money is where the leagues, amateurs, and social shooters are because of the massive number of players and interested spectators, i.e., Derby City Classic, Super Billiards Expo, and the BCA Open (IMO).

As much as pool has made strides in recent times, I can still walk down the street in Anywhere, USA and ask a hundred people if they've ever heard of Earl Strickland, and I'd be lucky to get one correct response. Go to the Phillipines and ask a hundred people if they've ever heard of Efren Reyes, and the percentage of correct responses would be much higher.

As an aside, I visited the WPBA website and am quite impressed with the layout. Very informative, up to date, and I love the flashing pictures of the pros with their bios. Very tasteful and well done!

JAM

 

[RSB-Refugee]

Seeding in Nascar.... I'm aware of seeding in most sports. But not Nascar.

You never heard of qual times? How do you think they determine who has the pole position?

Tracy

 

[StatMan]

You never heard of qual times? How do you think they determine who has the pole position?

Tracy

That's more like letting each player play 10 racks by themselves and seeding the players based on the number of times they break and run out.

 

[DaveK]

HE RUNS THE SHOW, NO OTHER GROUP OR INDIVIDUALS.

Brady

So here's a dumb question, where did he get the U.S. Open from ? In other national 'opens' the main organization runs the show. As an example, the USGA owns and operates the US Open of golf, and the RnA runs the Open (of Britan). The USTA runs the US Open of tennis. How does a private citizen get the rights to the US Open of pool in the US ? Just curious ...

Dave

 

[JustPlay]

The U.S.Open breeds Champions. I would venture to say that there are probally be 100+ Players that can WIN this event. It's amazing, about half of the invites I have drawn up for foreign players were players that I have never heard of but i bet they "Got Game".

My point exactly, Brady! I am being sarcastic to alot of these posters especially to those who believe the US OPen should be a event to which pool players should qualify. With the entire world producing world champion class players, the average "hack" as some would have it will not pay $1000 dollars ($500+ $500 in expenses) to play in such an event of this caliber. Yes, posters, there are some players that have not quite gotten to champion status that play in tournaments like the US Open, but would like to test there skills with the best. But Brady, why seed players just because their organization, puts their stamp of approval on this event? Past champions, they earned the right to be seated. I think the rest should fend for themselfs.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

So here's a dumb question, where did he get the U.S. Open from ? In other national 'opens' the main organization runs the show. As an example, the USGA owns and operates the US Open of golf, and the RnA runs the Open (of Britan). The USTA runs the US Open of tennis. How does a private citizen get the rights to the US Open of pool in the US ? Just curious ...

Dave

Mr Berman filled a void where the BCA and Men's pro orgs had failed in the past 35 years.

The BCA was originally formed (in 1947) to promote regional 14.1 qualifiers for the national 14.1 championships. Some time in the 60s the BCA just forgot what its purpose was and became more focused on billiards related company trade shows than tournaments.
Other than the brief ownership of the BCA leagues and annual Vegas Pro event, the BCA has distanced itself from the players and the sport.

Barry just filled the void without opposition and created the only true US Open 9 ball event and has worked very hard over the last 35 years to make this the most prestigious event in US Pool .

 

[Williebetmore]

Marshall "The Squirrel" Tucker
JAM

Jam,
The Squirrel that I am most familiar with (protege of Fats - to hear Fats tell it) was Marshall Carpenter. Or am I just having age related memory lapse???

 

[JAM]

Jam,
The Squirrel that I am most familiar with (protege of Fats - to hear Fats tell it) was Marshall Carpenter. Or am I just having age related memory lapse???

Williebetmore, you're absolutely correct! His last name is Carpenter. Just another senior moment for me. The senior moments are like a nightmare, which is getting worse and worse!

He's depicted here on the far right. That's Cornbread Red in the middle! [for the young'ns]

JAM

 

[vapoolplayer]

My point exactly, Brady! I am being sarcastic to alot of these posters especially to those who believe the US OPen should be a event to which pool players should qualify. With the entire world producing world champion class players, the average "hack" as some would have it will not pay $1000 dollars ($500+ $500 in expenses) to play in such an event of this caliber. .

ha!! bullshit.......there are many many many players who put up the cash and are barely and "A" player.

get out more.

over half the field at the open doesn't stand a chance, and out of that very few will ever be good enough to stand a chance.

right now as its stands pool is put up on a pedastal like other sports are. why is this? because the average joe doesn't realize how complicated the game really is. how prestigious does a sport look than ANYONE can get into?

have you ever been to the open? go for the first few days and you'll see plenty of guys there that can't consistently run a rack of 9 ball.

now, what happens when the average person decides to check out the hallmark of pool one day and sees some hack missing balls??? doesn't make the game look like its all that does it?

you are right however that the payouts would suffer..........again i assumed that there was some common sense involved here and that people would know that when i say that you should qualify for the event, that this would not be able to take place until there was more money in pool.

people enjoy other sports because they are watching someone does something they can't........point blank.....people watch sports and put the players on a pedastal because they are doing something that they think is amazing................pool does not have this image.........partially IMO because the average person thinks that ANYONE can play.

in every other sport you have to pay your dues to get to "the show" and if you don't........too bad.........you couldn't cut it........not in pool, anyone can make "the show". how prestigious is that?


and yes, compared to the top pro players i am a HACK.........i'll admit it.......but i haven't been playing probably even a quarter of the time most of you have been playing, and you can rest assure that i won't be playing in the open or any other pro event until i measure up............if you want to cough up the cash and make yourself feel like your something by playing in a "pro" event.......then by all means go ahead.


thanks

VAP

 

[DaveK]

Mr Berman filled a void where the BCA and Men's pro orgs had failed in the past 35 years.

The BCA was originally formed (in 1947) to promote regional 14.1 qualifiers for the national 14.1 championships. Some time in the 60s the BCA just forgot what its purpose was and became more focused on billiards related company trade shows than tournaments.
Other than the brief ownership of the BCA leagues and annual Vegas Pro event, the BCA has distanced itself from the players and the sport.

Barry just filled the void without opposition and created the only true US Open 9 ball event and has worked very hard over the last 35 years to make this the most prestigious event in US Pool .

Thanks for the answers Tom, I appreciate your insight.

So did the BCA sanction/run one or 'US Open' tounament playing straight pool ? Did they run any playing 9 ball ? Then left the name gathering dust until Mr Berman resurected the name ? Or did Mr. Berman actually create the US Open of pool as a 9 ball event ?

I am impressed that a promoter can pull this off for 35 years, that's quite a run ! I'm pleased that the tournament is the most prestigious event in US pool, as any national 'Open' must be, imo. But all this begs the question, what happens after Barry ?

Dave, a curious George if there ever was one ...

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Thanks for the answers Tom, I appreciate your insight.

So did the BCA sanction/run one or 'US Open' tounament playing straight pool ? Did they run any playing 9 ball ? Then left the name gathering dust until Mr Berman resurected the name ? Or did Mr. Berman actually create the US Open of pool as a 9 ball event ?

I am impressed that a promoter can pull this off for 35 years, that's quite a run ! I'm pleased that the tournament is the most prestigious event in US pool, as any national 'Open' must be, imo. But all this begs the question, what happens after Barry ?

Dave, a curious George if there ever was one ...

The BCA runs the Pro Event in Vegas along with the 6500 players in team and singles bar box tournaments. Plenty of Canadians play in this yearly event.

The BCA Pro event is relativly new compared to the US Open. Mr. Berhman started his event 35 years ago but wasn't called the US Open until 1975. IIRC Mike Sigel won 2 of the first 5 events.

To my knowledge, the 14.1 championships (held multiple times a year since the 1920s) were called the World Championships of 14.1 and never considered to be a 'US Open' Event. You had to be a world Champion or winner of a regional event to be considered for the 10 or 12 player round robin event. The BCA got involved when the regional touranents were needed to qualify for the World Championships. Sadly, these tournaments fizzled out in the late 50s and early to mid 60s.

Yes, there were players from all over the world in this event.

 

[Teddy Harris]

So here's a dumb question, where did he get the U.S. Open from ? In other national 'opens' the main organization runs the show. As an example, the USGA owns and operates the US Open of golf, and the RnA runs the Open (of Britan). The USTA runs the US Open of tennis. How does a private citizen get the rights to the US Open of pool in the US ? Just curious ...

Dave

By having 29 US Open's in a row...through thick and thin...no matter what organization was in control of Men's Professional pool in the US, or the world for that matter!...at least once from you know where! Barry Behrman's life is a lot like his business...sometimes it is good, and sometimes it is bad. If you really think about it, can any of us say any different about our own lives...

Barry has persevered, and now there may be hope for pool in this country. He is not the only reason for this, but he played an integral role. The US Open has set the standard for what it takes to have successful tournaments. It is the only tournament that challenges the World Pool Championships, IMHO. Only the fans can decide which one is better. For most of us in the US, it is the US Open hands down. It could be that the reason for this is because we have never been and participated in the WPC, or it could be that the US Open is the premier event in the World. The US Open is at the very least one of the two best. An incredible triumph for pool and Barry Behrman. Now, with UPA sanctioning and WPA sanctioning the sky's the limit! The US Open is now officially the premier event in the US...as recognized by the Governing body of Men's Professional Pool in the US and the Governing body of World Pool, as recognized by International Olympic Committee. Sounds to me like pool in the US is becoming more organized than it has been for years.
I would like to wish Barry Behrman and the UPA good luck!

 

[Teddy Harris]

Atleast there were 29yrs of a true U.S. "Open" in which all players had an equal chance in the event.

With the involvement of the U.P.A. and the "seeding of players" the event is now only a commercial farce.

Half of the former winners of this event would not have a title now in their portfolio if it had allways been run under this "make sure the top players get in the $$" format.

This is not what the "former" U.S. Open meant to any unranked players wanting a fair chance to compete in an "equal opportunity" event on all levels, including the important fair draw.

Very Sad for an event that has allways been known as the crown jewel until now.

I would like thank you for bringing up this discussion. While I disagree with your version, you have brought to this forum what I consider to be the best thread regarding pool on any forum anywhere.

 

[DaveK]

By having 29 US Open's in a row...through thick and thin...no matter what organization was in control of Men's Professional pool in the US, or the world for that matter!...at least once from you know where! Barry Behrman's life is a lot like his business...sometimes it is good, and sometimes it is bad. If you really think about it, can any of us say any different about our own lives...

Barry has persevered, and now there may be hope for pool in this country. He is not the only reason for this, but he played an integral role. The US Open has set the standard for what it takes to have successful tournaments. It is the only tournament that challenges the World Pool Championships, IMHO. Only the fans can decide which one is better. For most of us in the US, it is the US Open hands down. It could be that the reason for this is because we have never been and participated in the WPC, or it could be that the US Open is the premier event in the World. The US Open is at the very least one of the two best. An incredible triumph for pool and Barry Behrman. Now, with UPA sanctioning and WPA sanctioning the sky's the limit! The US Open is now officially the premier event in the US...as recognized by the Governing body of Men's Professional Pool in the US and the Governing body of World Pool, as recognized by International Olympic Committee. Sounds to me like pool in the US is becoming more organized than it has been for years.
I would like to wish Barry Behrman and the UPA good luck!

Thanks Ted. As I mentioned earlier, it is a truly impressive run for Mr. Behrman and his US Open. Hopefully the trend towards unity will continue such that there will ultimately exist a single, recognized, accountable authority for the sport of pool.

Dave, who won't be playing this year ... again ... hey, all yous AZers gonna sponsor another player this year ?

 

[JustPlay]

ha!! bullshit.......there are many many many players who put up the cash and are barely and "A" player.

get out more.

over half the field at the open doesn't stand a chance, and out of that very few will ever be good enough to stand a chance.

right now as its stands pool is put up on a pedastal like other sports are. why is this? because the average joe doesn't realize how complicated the game really is. how prestigious does a sport look than ANYONE can get into?

have you ever been to the open? go for the first few days and you'll see plenty of guys there that can't consistently run a rack of 9 ball.

now, what happens when the average person decides to check out the hallmark of pool one day and sees some hack missing balls??? doesn't make the game look like its all that does it?

you are right however that the payouts would suffer..........again i assumed that there was some common sense involved here and that people would know that when i say that you should qualify for the event, that this would not be able to take place until there was more money in pool.

people enjoy other sports because they are watching someone does something they can't........point blank.....people watch sports and put the players on a pedastal because they are doing something that they think is amazing................pool does not have this image.........partially IMO because the average person thinks that ANYONE can play.

in every other sport you have to pay your dues to get to "the show" and if you don't........too bad.........you couldn't cut it........not in pool, anyone can make "the show". how prestigious is that?


and yes, compared to the top pro players i am a HACK.........i'll admit it.......but i haven't been playing probably even a quarter of the time most of you have been playing, and you can rest assure that i won't be playing in the open or any other pro event until i measure up............if you want to cough up the cash and make yourself feel like your something by playing in a "pro" event.......then by all means go ahead.


thanks

VAP

Please, make a list of the 2003-2004 US Open "hacks" and post it here. Also, please send the list to Brady so he can instruct his father to not accept their entries to the 2005 US Open. I diffinitly would love to see it. You seem to know which players are "hacks"....

Poker is filled with "hacks" but I don't see the top poker players complaining while they are cashing their million dollar checks....


Pool on a pedestal? It hasn't gotton off the ground floor in the 20 years I been involved in pool!

Anyone can play pool and everyone does. Just like poker. And yes, at its highest levels is where the complexites of the game are best reconized. Please stop comparing pool to actual sports.


I just had a great thought to help get rid of the "hacks" as you would put it- raise the entry fees to the US Open to...lets say....$5000 to $10000 like the World series of poker and we will see how many hacks come and play. All the top players in the world will participate and be glad to spend this kind of money...what do you think?...

 

[sniper]

so if a female would happen to win the event does that mean they qualify to compete in WPC.

Women are prohibited from competing in the WPC under WPA rules, last year several women showed up to the qualifiers in Taiwan the week prior to the start of the tournament and weren't allowed to compete

 

[Cardinal_Syn]

Women are prohibited from competing in the WPC under WPA rules, last year several women showed up to the qualifiers in Taiwan the week prior to the start of the tournament and weren't allowed to compete

ya i just realized that that the US Open and the UPA was just for men......i was at work and on the phone while typing.....just made a fool of myself there.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Please, make a list of the 2003-2004 US Open "hacks" and post it here. Also, please send the list to Brady so he can instruct his father to not accept their entries to the 2005 US Open. I diffinitly would love to see it. You seem to know which players are "hacks"....

Poker is filled with "hacks" but I don't see the top poker players complaining while they are cashing their million dollar checks....


Pool on a pedestal? It hasn't gotton off the ground floor in the 20 years I been involved in pool!

Anyone can play pool and everyone does. Just like poker. And yes, at its highest levels is where the complexites of the game are best reconized. Please stop comparing pool to actual sports.


I just had a great thought to help get rid of the "hacks" as you would put it- raise the entry fees to the US Open to...lets say....$5000 to $10000 like the World series of poker and we will see how many hacks come and play. All the top players in the world will participate and be glad to spend this kind of money...what do you think?...

dude........its people like you who have "been around pool the last 20 years" with that attitude that have made it what it is today.

until pool is compared to other sports, and put on that pedastal.......its always gonna be the way it is.

go back to your cave grandpa.

thanks

VAP

 

[JDB]

dude........its people like you who have "been around pool the last 20 years" with that attitude that have made it what it is today.

until pool is compared to other sports, and put on that pedastal.......its always gonna be the way it is.

go back to your cave grandpa.

thanks

VAP

I have to agree with JustPlay here...

The "hacks" paying their entry fees make a hell of a lot more for the "professionals" than the fans do.

I love playing, but I suck... but I would have no problem paying $500 to play in the US Open just to play some of the professionals.

Yes, there should be more money in pool so they don't allow me (or people like me) in; however there's not. Therefore, you should be happy that so many hacks fund the US Open. If they didn't, the US Open would be a much smaller tournament for everyone (fans and professionals).

 

[vapoolplayer]

I have to agree with JustPlay here...

The "hacks" paying their entry fees make a hell of a lot more for the "professionals" than the fans do.

I love playing, but I suck... but I would have no problem paying $500 to play in the US Open just to play some of the professionals.

Yes, there should be more money in pool so they don't allow me (or people like me) in; however there's not. Therefore, you should be happy that so many hacks fund the US Open. If they didn't, the US Open would be a much smaller tournament for everyone (fans and professionals).

i agree with you JDB........justplay however didnt' read my earlier post thouroughly enough..........i said there isn't enough money in pool to allow this right now..........in my first post in this thread i was merely stating an opinion that i felt.........i know that its not possible right now, but i think in the future it will be.

things are getting better each tournament, and the union between the UPA and the US open is only another step in the right direction to actually giving a face to professional pool.

thanks

VAP