RAAP... Reversed Angle Aim Point for the starting pivot point... Just sayin'...
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Raap
- Thread starter Ralph Kramden
- Start date
The pivoting V distances are unknown but are in direct proportions to each of the varying pocketing angles...
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Maybe not direct proportions, but very close. There are a couple of ways to find where the pivot aim point starts from...
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Approach the shot from behind the CB while looking at the angle the OB will take off the line between the CB and OB center...
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Hi 1PJohn... I'll get to the table in the next post. Please post input or questions if this RAAP thing doesn't make sense. Sometimes my wording is confusing.
Thanks.
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Went to the website shown in your signature. On the website #13 about 5 paragraphs down explains RAAP. I still don't understand. It is really hard to describe a system using words.
Is there a video available that demonstrates this system?
I like to learn all the pool related systems I can. I have my own system and I'm very comfortable with it. I am trying to learn CTE for banking because I play 1P and want to be able to bank from anywhere with confidence.
Thanks for the post.
John
The pivot always starts from the mirror angle of the OB contact point pocketing angle. The cue pivot point starts from a reversed aim point off the OB centerline.
Come straight down behind the CB. The cue should always be aligned with both balls. The cue alignment could run from center CB to center OB, or the cue alignment could run to the similar points across horizontal lines on both the CB and the OB. It would be like a laser beam that's projected down the cue.
The laser beam projects through the CB at the same horizontal distance points as is projected on the OB. This distance on the OB would be a point on the horizontal line that's opposite the OB contact point (or a reversed contact point). This Reverse Angle Aim Point (RAAP) is always inside the OB cut line.
If the cue is aimed centerball to centerball, or aimed at the same RAAP on the OB and the CB, the cue and both balls are aligned. Both balls need to be aligned with the cue to get equal distance pivots after finding your RAAP for the pivot. Center CB to Center OB is used on straight shots and small angled cuts.
On small angled cuts, the cue parallel shifts toward the opposite side of CB center. When the parallel shift aligns with the RAAP, pivot to the OB pocket aim point. On wide angles the cue points directly at the RAAP. Aim at both horizontal RAAP points and start pivoting from that point. Pivot toward CB center.
How far you pivot isn't a defined point. As the cue pivots, the shot line becomes clear.. although everyone sees things differently. Adjust if side spin is needed...
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Went to the website shown in your signature. On the website #13 about 5 paragraphs down explains RAAP. I still don't understand. It is really hard to describe a system using words.
Is there a video available that demonstrates this system?
I like to learn all the pool related systems I can. I have my own system and I'm very comfortable with it. I am trying to learn CTE for banking because I play 1P and want to be able to bank from anywhere with confidence.
Thanks for the post.
John
I tried to explain how it works in post #9... Hope this helps. Carl
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"The pivot always starts from a mirror angle of the OB contact point pocketing angle. The cue pivot point starts at that reversed distance from the OB center line."
I don't understand the bold part. I put an OB and QB on the table for a cut shot and stood there trying to figure out what a mirror angle looks like. Couldn't get it.
Maybe someone familiar with this will make a video to demonstrate.
Thanks for post #9 Carl.
I'll standby for now.
John
Try this... Put the cue tip on center CB and aim at the OB center. Pick an OB contact point for a 15 degree angle. Parallel shift the cue to point directly at that OB contact point. The cue is aimed at the 15 degree OB contact point and the cue tip offset is the same side and distance from the CB center.
The RAAP is always aimed from the opposite (reverse) side of the actual OB contact point. If the cut shot is to the right, the contact point would be on the left side of the OB. The RAAP pivot starts opposite of the OB contact side. The cue offset would be toward the right on both balls. The RAAP is always on the inside of the cut line.
Aim the cue at the offset distance. Pivot from the offset distance to the opposite side of the OB centerline... that's what I'm saying.
It's like lining the cue to center CB, to pocket the OB on the head spot, into a corner pocket. Instead of pocketing the OB, look at where the contact point on the OB would send the OB left to the first diamond on the left. Parallel shift the cue right, and point to the exact contact point for a left OB cut. The cue is now pointed for a left cut... But it's also pointed directly at the RAAP for a right cut. This this is the Reverse Angle Aim Point (RAAP) starting position. The cue points directly at the OB left cut and you'll pivot left from that position. Pivot left until you're aiming at the actual OB contact point for the right cut. Pivot the cue toward the CB centerline to the cut angle that would send the OB to the first right diamond.
1PJohn... hope this explains things. Damn I do a lot of editing
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Are you saying align the cue parallel with the CB/OB centerline but pointed at the mirror image of the OB contact point (on the opposite side of OB center) - and then pivot to center CB to make the shot?
If that's what you're saying, then the correct pivot length is half the distance between the balls minus about 1".
pj
chgo
If that's what you're saying, then the correct pivot length is half the distance between the balls minus about 1".
pj
chgo
pj.. No. If cue is aligned parallel with the CB/OB centerline, and the contact point is 5/16" from OB center, the cue first shifts parallel 5/16" and aligns 5/16" parallel off the centerline of both the balls.
After balls are in line with the cue in the 5/16" shifted position, the pivot starts from the shifted position toward center CB. If it were a laser, the beam would get closer to the OB center faster than to the CB center. The beam then passes the OB center to a pocketing point on the opposite side of OB center.
The cue may not pivot to the exact CB center, but will be very close. I don't really care if it pivots to the exact CB center. As the cue pivots the shot line becomes very clear. The cue always aligns parallel from center CB/OB to the mirror image contact point before the pivot begins, unless the balls are very close, or it's a very thin cut.
Carl
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Kinda like this?
Contact point on the OB, shift and pivot aiming. - 08-01-2012, 10:07 PM
This aiming method assumes one knows where the contact point on the equator of the OB that sends the OB to the pocket/target.
Starting with the center of the CB aimed at the contact point on the OB (CTCP) alignment.
Then lateral/parallel shift the shaft from the CB center to the OB center without regard to the CB (pretend that it isn’t there).
Pivot the tip of the cue from the bridge (hand) back to the center of the CB and shoot.
Again:
1 With the bridge hand about 12” - 13” behind the CB, Look for the contact/impact point on the OB equator that sends the OB to the target/pocket. – the point where the line from the center of the pocket /target exits the OB (near you).
2 Aim the cue/shaft from the center of the CB on a line to that point.
3 Ignoring the CB for now, lateral/parallel shift the cue until it is now pointing at the center of the OB
4 Pivot from that new cue and bridge location back to the center of the CB – shoot.
The shift from the contact point (CT) to the center of the OB will change as the distance between the CB and OB changes – larger shift when the CB is close to the OB and a smaller shift when the CB and OB are farther apart.
This is because perspective makes the OB ball appear to be a smaller diameter as it is moved father (down table) away from CB and the eye. This will change the included angle of the pivot – a large included angle when the OB is close and appears to be just a bit smaller circle than the CB and a smaller included angle when the OB is farther away and appears to be an even smaller circle.
What this does is to double the distance and included angle from the contact point (CP) to the center of the OB to send the CB to the location of the Ghost Ball (GB). The shift moves the bridge hand/cue to the side of the center of the CB. The pivot back to the center of the CB creates a aimilar included angle to the outside of the CP on the OB by that same distance, thus doubling the distance of the final aim. If you know double distance aiming, you can check the new final aim line….to the GB.
This changing of the shift from a large shift when the CB and OB are close together and smaller shift when the CB and OB are farther apart, prevents the CB from missing the cut angle to the outside of the GB resulting in a thinner cut and eventually missing contact with the OB to the outside.
Contact point on the OB, shift and pivot aiming. - 08-01-2012, 10:07 PM
This aiming method assumes one knows where the contact point on the equator of the OB that sends the OB to the pocket/target.
Starting with the center of the CB aimed at the contact point on the OB (CTCP) alignment.
Then lateral/parallel shift the shaft from the CB center to the OB center without regard to the CB (pretend that it isn’t there).
Pivot the tip of the cue from the bridge (hand) back to the center of the CB and shoot.
Again:
1 With the bridge hand about 12” - 13” behind the CB, Look for the contact/impact point on the OB equator that sends the OB to the target/pocket. – the point where the line from the center of the pocket /target exits the OB (near you).
2 Aim the cue/shaft from the center of the CB on a line to that point.
3 Ignoring the CB for now, lateral/parallel shift the cue until it is now pointing at the center of the OB
4 Pivot from that new cue and bridge location back to the center of the CB – shoot.
The shift from the contact point (CT) to the center of the OB will change as the distance between the CB and OB changes – larger shift when the CB is close to the OB and a smaller shift when the CB and OB are farther apart.
This is because perspective makes the OB ball appear to be a smaller diameter as it is moved father (down table) away from CB and the eye. This will change the included angle of the pivot – a large included angle when the OB is close and appears to be just a bit smaller circle than the CB and a smaller included angle when the OB is farther away and appears to be an even smaller circle.
What this does is to double the distance and included angle from the contact point (CP) to the center of the OB to send the CB to the location of the Ghost Ball (GB). The shift moves the bridge hand/cue to the side of the center of the CB. The pivot back to the center of the CB creates a aimilar included angle to the outside of the CP on the OB by that same distance, thus doubling the distance of the final aim. If you know double distance aiming, you can check the new final aim line….to the GB.
This changing of the shift from a large shift when the CB and OB are close together and smaller shift when the CB and OB are farther apart, prevents the CB from missing the cut angle to the outside of the GB resulting in a thinner cut and eventually missing contact with the OB to the outside.
LAMas... Not exactly ...
The way I was suggesting uses the CB center for a starting reference. The two balls and cue need to be on the same alignment. The cue and both balls could align through the center of both balls, or the cue could align through both balls anywhere along a horizontal line. If the cue alignment is offset from the CB centerline, it must also align to the OB at that same distance. The cue, CB and OB always align parallel to each other, whether the cue is aimed centerball to centerball, or the cue is aimed at offsets that are equal distances from the CB/OB centerlines.
You need to know the OB contact point as your diagram shows. The contact point to the OB center is also the offset distance for the cue. If the OB contact point is 5/16" left, the cue will parallel shift an offset of 5/16".. on the opposite side.. of the CB. When the OB contact point is left, the cue offsets right on the CB. The cue offset is always aimed toward the inside of the cut line, or reversed. What I call RAAP or the reverse angle aim point.
The pivot always starts from the RAAP position. There is really no set pivoting distance. The pivot starts toward the CB center. The pivot may not get to CB center as most pivot systems try to do. (IMO this way of pivoting isn't a system) I don't care if the pivot ends up exactly on the CB center. What I actually look for as the cue pivots.. is the shot line and the contact point. The shot line becomes clear as you pivot.
When getting down on the shot all this parallel reversed offset stuff become automatic. As you lean over the table the cue always goes toward the inside of the cut. The tip offset distance doesn't have to be precisely placed, but has to be close to the reverse OB contact to centerline distance. The starting cue alignment (even with offsets) always needs to be parallel with both ball centers.
The cue never aims at the OB center, except for center to center ball alignment or dead on shots. The pivot may, or may not get to CB center.
Thanks for the diagrams. I like the way you think, but this is somewhat different. Carl
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SEE THE DIAGRAM IN THE NEXT POST... #19
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The way I was suggesting uses the CB center for a starting reference. The two balls and cue need to be on the same alignment. The cue and both balls could align through the center of both balls, or the cue could align through both balls anywhere along a horizontal line. If the cue alignment is offset from the CB centerline, it must also align to the OB at that same distance. The cue, CB and OB always align parallel to each other, whether the cue is aimed centerball to centerball, or the cue is aimed at offsets that are equal distances from the CB/OB centerlines.
You need to know the OB contact point as your diagram shows. The contact point to the OB center is also the offset distance for the cue. If the OB contact point is 5/16" left, the cue will parallel shift an offset of 5/16".. on the opposite side.. of the CB. When the OB contact point is left, the cue offsets right on the CB. The cue offset is always aimed toward the inside of the cut line, or reversed. What I call RAAP or the reverse angle aim point.
The pivot always starts from the RAAP position. There is really no set pivoting distance. The pivot starts toward the CB center. The pivot may not get to CB center as most pivot systems try to do. (IMO this way of pivoting isn't a system) I don't care if the pivot ends up exactly on the CB center. What I actually look for as the cue pivots.. is the shot line and the contact point. The shot line becomes clear as you pivot.
When getting down on the shot all this parallel reversed offset stuff become automatic. As you lean over the table the cue always goes toward the inside of the cut. The tip offset distance doesn't have to be precisely placed, but has to be close to the reverse OB contact to centerline distance. The starting cue alignment (even with offsets) always needs to be parallel with both ball centers.
The cue never aims at the OB center, except for center to center ball alignment or dead on shots. The pivot may, or may not get to CB center.
Thanks for the diagrams. I like the way you think, but this is somewhat different. Carl
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SEE THE DIAGRAM IN THE NEXT POST... #19
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It can be calculated for each shot - the pic below shows the geometry for that:
The CB Contact Point must contact the OB Contact Point, so the CB Path must be parallel with the line connecting the two Contact Points.
The two shaded triangles are identical, and show that (in order for the cue stick to point through the CB's center of mass) the cue stick's pivot length must be equal to half the distance between the balls minus about half the CB's diameter (minus ~1").
If you use a different pivot length, then the CB's path must still be parallel with the line connecting the Contact Points, but the cue stick won't point through the CB's center (i.e., you'll be adding some side spin and squirt/swerve).
pj
chgo
P.S. I'm not trying to tell you how to use your own system, just giving you some background info.
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Thanks pj... The graphic is neat. I know the reverse pivot won't always take you to an exact
CB center. Side spin will always need to be adjusted for whenever you hit the CB off center.
I'll try using the half distance pivot point. If the balls are close pivoting points need shortened.
The real advantage of pivoting from the reverse contact point, is the pivot will take you very close to the actual
contact point. I think most pivoting systems that take you to center CB need adjustment, and probably more so.
As the RAAP pivot starts toward center CB, you immediately look for the OB contact point.
I don' know if RAAP is a aiming system.. RAAP isn't perfect.. I miss.. but it works very well.
Regards, Carl
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