"race to 5 is a JOKE!" by Allison Fisher

[Cameron Smith]

Remember, losing the race to five in pool doesn't eliminate you. If you win three out of five in the round robin, you live to play on. Losing three out of five sets is not something Federer does, so I'd guess he'd win just as many titles if tennis adopted this format.

Why is everyone writing about this format as if one loss in a race to five means instant elimination. Unless you lose fifteen racks in the round robin, you play on. It's really not a very tall order, and it's one that, time and time again, has rarely presented a challenge for the most elite at either the men's or women's World Pool Championships.

Your right, I kind of took the whole thing out of context. I was basically venting my frustrations about pro pool in general. Races to 7 aren't much better though. I still hate how the BCA championships are a race to 11 during the earlier stages and then move to a race to 7 for semi finals and finals. That's what I had in my mind when i was writing the earlier post.

I liked the move in the mens world championships to a race to 8 in the group stages, but the smaller groups I think brought the luck factor back into the situation. There were too many that didn't make it through based on racks won.

I do agree that Allison didn't play well enough to get through, so it wasn't the format that was the problem in this situation. But I am of the opinion that, if there are a lot of upsets and shocking events (as in many top players not making it through the group stages), the format needs to be re-evaluated.

 

[3kushn]

A race to 5 is definatley a JOKE for a major tournament. These kinds of events are supposed to determing who's the best not who got the most breaks in 5 games.

ANYBODY CAN BEAT ANYBODY IN A SHORT SERIES. The long haul is what matters for the records IMO.

 

[wayne]

A race to 5 is definatley a JOKE for a major tournament. These kinds of events are supposed to determing who's the best not who got the most breaks in 5 games.

ANYBODY CAN BEAT ANYBODY IN A SHORT SERIES. The long haul is what matters for the records IMO.

IT WAS NOT A SINGLE RACE TO 5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course no one is going to travel across the world for a race to 5 single elimination.

IT WAS FIVE (5) RACES TO 5. Against 5 different opponents.

I believe Allison got beat in 3 out of the 5 races (maybe 4 of 5) so she lost at least 15 games and probably more like 20 or more before she was eliminated.

 

[SloRoller]

To the Jelly Donut and Cheeseburger he said:


"Allison has said in a few interviews that she has the hardest time with the first round.

I think she has lost one or two first rounds in her career.
It seems to take her some time to get started and in this format of short races it seems she couldnt catch a gear.

If the format has been the same in the past then I think her remarks being interviewed right after the loss was just frustration. If they recently changed the format then she has a legitimate complaint. Either way a race to 5 in the pre-lim rounds are not long enough at this level and no reason to be that short as they are not televised. "

End of quote to Jelly Donut and Cheeseburger, now onto the discussion with the Pizza and Ice Cream....

 

[catscradle]

Maybe the format should be changed entirely. The last 4 players can flip coins to decided the winner and second place. Then those two can do exhibition for the tv audience, taking wild a$$ shots that make no sense at all but thrill people who know nothing about pool.
Oh and maybe everybody who shows up should get a nice little trophy like kindergarten youth soccer.

 

[John Barton]

Forget about who said that the race to five format sucks. as pool players, what can we say about that format? as for me, I don't like the idea of B players advancing thru the finals by winning short races due to luck. then watch 'em play on the final table playing the most common display of skill of 9-ball game or probably play sucker 9-ball. that would be a rip-off to the very good pool players and spectators who wanted to watch a spectacular display of skills rather than watching kiddie stuffs. RIP OFF !

The players who got through here are definitely players. They can all run out from anywhere and while the easy pockets were helpful there were also a lot of shots missed due to pressure and due to picking the wrong shot in the situation.

All in all a spectacular display of skills was enjoyed.

 

[8ballEinstein]

So with this flawed format, Ms Xiaoting Pan got to the finals on a fluke and is likely an imposter, right?

I think not. Not with an incredible 68% winning record.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

The players who got through here are definitely players. They can all run out from anywhere and while the easy pockets were helpful there were also a lot of shots missed due to pressure and due to picking the wrong shot in the situation.

All in all a spectacular display of skills was enjoyed.

John, what I am saying is the application of the race to five format in general. I'm glad that the players who participated in the AMWAY tournament had gone thru tough qualifying rounds playing longer races in the open tourneys just to earn their respective slots in the AMWAY tourney. otherwise it were the same as race to five in the qualifying tourneys, we would definitely see some unfamiliar faces in the AMWAY. in spite of the tough qualifying rounds in the open tournaments, that shouldn't be an excuse to shorten matches in the AMWAY opening rounds and later rounds.

 

[GADawg]

The players who got through here are definitely players. They can all run out from anywhere and while the easy pockets were helpful there were also a lot of shots missed due to pressure and due to picking the wrong shot in the situation.

All in all a spectacular display of skills was enjoyed.

John -

You are exactly right. I watched almost every minute of the four days that was on tv and I do not recall a single person getting through that I thought was because of "lucky" breaks.

The final 8 included Kelly Fisher, Pan Xiao Ting, Kim Ga Young, Kim White, Rubelin Anit, Yukiko Haminishi, S.M. Liu, and P.C Tsai.

I'd like for somebody who actually watched all of the matches to tell me who did not deserve to be there based on their play this week.

This thread did not exist before Allison got knocked out. If she had gotten through, would anybody have said anything? I think not.

The face of women's pool is changing and there are an awful lot of great players around.

 

[Williebetmore]

I do not recall a single person getting through that I thought was because of "lucky" breaks.

The face of women's pool is changing and there are an awful lot of great players around.

Dawg,
Awesome experience; I guess we will have to consider you a "lucky Dawg" (since the rest of us had to work).

I will say that most of us consider a "lucky break" to be: making a ball on the break and having an easy layout; coming up dry on the break, leaving opponent no shot; missing a ball and leaving your opponent safe. Are you sure none of these things happened? A short match doesn't give much time for such events to "even themselves out."

 

[GADawg]

Dawg,
Awesome experience; I guess we will have to consider you a "lucky Dawg" (since the rest of us had to work).

I will say that most of us consider a "lucky break" to be: making a ball on the break and having an easy layout; coming up dry on the break, leaving opponent no shot; missing a ball and leaving your opponent safe. Are you sure none of these things happened? A short match doesn't give much time for such events to "even themselves out."

I was lucky. My wife is out of town, so I just camped in front of the computer and did paperwork while I watched.

I'm not saying none of those things ever happened but they happened both ways and I didn't see any match where I thought the wrong person won based on the way they were playing at that time. For sure the people still standing at the end deserved to be there.

The only match I saw where I thought somebody was really lucky to win was Kelly Fisher and Daisy Chang in the quarter finals. Daisy missed a simple combination which, if she had made, would have left an easy run out for the match. Instead she left Kelly and easy table. Then in the rubber game, Daisy made a very poor decision to try a difficult off angle bank instead of shooting safe and let Kelly run out for the match. It was so bad, my first thought was "somebody told her to take a fall." I don't believe that, but that's what it looked like.

I don't like short races either as a matter of general principle but I didn't see where it had a lot of effect on the outcome here. The matches went on for 10 hours a day for four days. I'm sure the promoters did the best they could to make it as fair as possible with the time and financial restraints they had.

I saw Allison's interview live. It was right after the final loss for her, which was not close and she was obviously distressed. Then the insensitive reporter asked her twice soemthing like " How does it feel to lose and get knocked out for the first time?" Then her remark.

I don't recall this much furor after the men's WPC which had a similar format. Maybe Ronnie Alcano was just "lucky" that week.

 

[ginsu]

Even with alternate breaks, it is just to short a race, especially for a player who has gone to considerable expense to get there. Race to seven is already short enough.

Jay-The men from the semis on just raced to 7 in the UPA tour championships, also a joke. By the way Shane won the Utah open. Beat Justin Bergman in the finals. Both very good players and young. Justin just 18 or 19.

 

[ginsu]

Well the race to 5 format is definitely for TV purposes and I think the alternate break actually favors Allison, especially against someone like Jasmin that has a great break. But, realistically, how often are you gonna see a player break and run 5 racks if its winner breaks? More times in the mens tournies than the ladies. I have watched Jasmin play since she was 16 and she is gonna be the #1 ladies player in a few years. Maybe Allison sees this too and is a little troubled by it.

Southpaw

Pan-Broke and ran 5 racks against Greta H. in this tournment.

 

[ajrack]

Why a tournament?

Why is there a tournament?
I believe that different tourneys should be run for different reasons. Do you want the BEST player to win? - have long races, decent money payoffs>>> Do you want MANY good players and those who want to play with "the big dogs" to show up for the event? - just add money>>> Do you want more players to enjoy YOUR establishment? - have low entry fees and small payouts so you can develop more regular customers.
Each type of tourney should have different rules. Using a different format makes for better tournouts. One set of rules for all tourneys just doesn't work!
*Note* Many great players in other sports have had the rules changed because they were just too tough. It will continue.
*Personal note* Alternate breaks is VERY boring for spectators. Remember, most people normally want to see Home Runs!

 

[whitey2]

Many great points are being raised

Many great points are being raised in this thread. I realized a long time ago, that the better
player does not always win a race. They are playing *games* using their skills to overcome
whatever challenges arise in a particular game. No two games are ever the same. If games
were all the same, it would be very boring.

Imagine a "contest" to determine who is shooting the best? Line up a long straight shot, and
shoot it 100 times. One point for each one made. Then setup a 2 rail kick and a small area to
land both the cue ball and object ball, 10 shots of the same. Then repeat this process for a
multitude of shots. Can you imagine the average public getting into watching this at all?

 

[StormHotRod300]

I think for the ladies, the Ideal tournament set up is a simple, race to 9, winner break. And then in the Finals, make it a race to 11. Have the whole tournament be double Elimination. And have it be a true d/e, where if someone comes through on the loser side, they have to beat the winner's side twice.

And this could be the same for the mens too, except make it race to 11, and the finals goto 15.

I really hate the single elimination on the WPBA once you reach the final 16. In some ways its good, cuz, you have to bring your A game right away, and It's nice to see some new ladies in the finals instead of Allison all the time.