rack mechanics, what's your take?

[trainer]

kids kids kids!!

Stop it !!
This rac ur own argument is really heating up..I think in the next year or so it should get resolved..Players are seeing all the different options that are being offered at tournaments and starting to realize what is acceptable and what isn't..Racking your own if both players AGREE seems to be the most peaceful solution that i have seen..The only other option is for a 3rd party to rack with no right of inspection..The Sardo rack is a joke..Spotting the 9 on the spot ain't 9-ball !! At a senior tournament , Nick Varner and Bob Vanover had to have Scott Smith rack ! So this isn't a new issue..Time will sort this out,but in the meantime,my opponent ain't rackin his own !!!!!
Terry O.

 

[Flex]

Stop it !!
This rac ur own argument is really heating up..I think in the next year or so it should get resolved..Players are seeing all the different options that are being offered at tournaments and starting to realize what is acceptable and what isn't..Racking your own if both players AGREE seems to be the most peaceful solution that i have seen..The only other option is for a 3rd party to rack with no right of inspection..The Sardo rack is a joke..Spotting the 9 on the spot ain't 9-ball !! At a senior tournament , Nick Varner and Bob Vanover had to have Scott Smith rack ! So this isn't a new issue..Time will sort this out,but in the meantime,my opponent ain't rackin his own !!!!!
Terry O.

Hey, just checking out the rack before shooting spooks some guys. And if you take a look at it, and walk back and get ready to shoot, and your opponent asks if the rack is ok, you know you're getting to him. Just reposition the cue ball, and break the rack right and watch a ball or two disappear, and he'll start worrying. And don't forget to answer his question about the rack with a smile. He might not like that either

Flex

 

[Donovan]

All the name calling aside, the fact that Racking Secrets by Joe Tucker is no really a secret, and the fact that it is next to imposible to rack the balls perfectly every time.

SO are we back to saying 10-ball is the solution, the Sardo rack, or what?

 

[metal5d]

Gregg I was just goofing on you about the 72 posts.....

Anyway I am a traditionalist, so I prefer that the opponents rack each other's games. I would much prefer getting a rack that is a little loose than someone adjusting the rack to roll the 9 into the corner pocket on their breaks. Besides when someones playing well and keeping you in your chair its nice to get up and do something at the table, even if its just racking the balls.

 

[Gregg]

So you're a new guy on here? That wasn't my understanding. After all you have posted almost 300 times. As for the zingers, I thought you kind of jumped the gun on Egg with that 72 thing. It's true that Egg often is quite concise with his comments, but brevity is the spirit of wit. And he is no slouch at the table either. His post about the multiple ways to rack and the question about pocketing specific balls in the rack got me thinking: where did he learn all that? Wherever it was, it sounds like pretty good stuff. Just posting a question with no explanation is enough for some people to figure some things out.


Flex

Well, to answer you question, Flex, no explanation sometimes can figure that the person does not know what they are talking about.

If I jumped the gun with Egg, then sorry. I didn't take what he said as a personal attack in any way, and I hope even more that he or anybody else does not feel like that I attacked them either. If you say Egg is a good shooter, it sounds like a guy like me could learn a lot from him.

But, if you disagree with my idea, kindly shoot me down next time.

 

[Flex]

Gregg I was just goofing on you about the 72 posts.....

Anyway I am a traditionalist, so I prefer that the opponents rack each other's games. I would much prefer getting a rack that is a little loose than someone adjusting the rack to roll the 9 into the corner pocket on their breaks. Besides when someones playing well and keeping you in your chair its nice to get up and do something at the table, even if its just racking the balls.

Heck, ole FL teaches a certain break that helps move the 9 towards the corner pocket. Last time I won the handicapped Sunday evening tournament at Chris's in Chicago, I pulled out that break. When I was on the hill in the semi-finals, I used it and the 9 rocketed into the top left corner (rack courtesy of my opponent), in the finals, with me on the hill, the same thing happened. Luck? Perhaps a bit...

Flex

 

[TheBook]

We need Shorty back to keep things under control.

 

[Eric.]

oh and btw, just out of curiosity, how many of you know how to set these racks:

- wingball
- wingball + money ball
- wingball + bottom ball
- wingball + 9 ball
- wingball + 9 ball + bottom ball
- wingball + 1 ball
- wingball + 1 ball + 9 ball
- wingball + 1 ball + 9 ball + bottom ball
- both wingballs
- both wingballs + 9 ball + money ball
- slug rack (wingball may go but table is messed up)
- slug rack (the classic)

Unfortunately, a lot of people do. The bottom line is that the 9 ball rack is a flawed rack; it's easily manipulated. There really is no answeer to the 9 ball racking problem (that I know of). Just play 10 ball, dammit


Eric >always checks her..umm, THE rack

 

[Flex]

Well, to answer you question, Flex, no explanation sometimes can figure that the person does not know what they are talking about.

If I jumped the gun with Egg, then sorry. I didn't take what he said as a personal attack in any way, and I hope even more that he or anybody else does not feel like that I attacked them either. If you say Egg is a good shooter, it sounds like a guy like me could learn a lot from him.

But, if you disagree with my idea, kindly shoot me down next time.

No hard feelings, Gregg

Egg's a good shooter, and a good player too, no doubt about it, even if he will say his stroke is terrible or something like that.

Thanks for the back and forth, it makes things lively around here!

Cheers!

Flex

 

[Gregg]

Look, if you can't mix it up around here, then what the heck...

 

[Egg McDogit]

Oh, OK. I have seen some top players recommending this as a rule change over on the EPT MB, so I guess they too are naive.
....
I don't just pull junk out of my butt around here, I am just repeating some things I read that I agreed with.

gregg, the above is what prompted my initial confrontational response. you seem to justify your response by saying that other (ignorant ballbanger) posters came to this consensus.

it is possible to set all of the racks I listed. In rack your own tournaments, you are going to see saavy players make the wingball at a VERY high percentage. I doubt you have ever witnessed a rack-your-own tournament with a bunch of shortstops and pros playing in it. This happens on a regular basis in my area - it's called the planet pool tour.

the last time I watched 2 (well known) pros play a long race rack-your-own tournament, the wingball went straight in the hole...EVERY SINGLE TIME. Actually there were usually 2-3 balls made on every break. What do you think happens when a pro and another player faceoff and both players make the wingball every single time btw? I like the pro's chances.

 

[Purdman]

oh and btw, just out of curiosity, how many of you know how to set these racks:

- wingball
- wingball + money ball
- wingball + bottom ball
- wingball + 9 ball
- wingball + 9 ball + bottom ball
- wingball + 1 ball
- wingball + 1 ball + 9 ball
- wingball + 1 ball + 9 ball + bottom ball
- both wingballs
- both wingballs + 9 ball + money ball
- slug rack (wingball may go but table is messed up)
- slug rack (the classic)

I will give you three trys at your 12 examples for $100 each of the 12.
When do ya want to set it up Egg?
Purdman

 

[Jimmy M.]

This comes up a lot in tournaments and in action. It was mentioned in a thread about Keith McCready. It takes him about 5 seconds to rack - get the rack over the balls, lift it up - done. He racks this way both for himself and his opponents. I see him at tournaments crying about the other guys' racks. The reason is it can take them minutes to rack - then they make the wingball everytime. It's easy to see why Keith gets so frustrated when he's coming up dry and the other guy's spending a lot of time and making the wingball every single time. Most of you have probably played a rack mechanic. What's your take on it? Where do you draw the line?

You have the option to check your opponents rack even in rack-your-own format. Personally, I like racking for myself and, if things are looking funny when my opponent racks/breaks, I'll check their rack. It isn't perfect, but I think it's the lesser of the two evils (rack-your-own or rack-for-your-opponent). Obviously, the best solution would be to have a neutral racker, but that isn't really feasible in most tournaments.

 

[Jimmy M.]

the last time I watched 2 (well known) pros play a long race rack-your-own tournament, the wingball went straight in the hole...EVERY SINGLE TIME. Actually there were usually 2-3 balls made on every break. What do you think happens when a pro and another player faceoff and both players make the wingball every single time btw? I like the pro's chances.

In my experience, this is because each player is getting a good rack as opposed to the racks they get when their opponents racks for them. I'm completely dumbfounded every time I play a match where you don't rack for yourself because I can't believe how many people just blatantly give bad racks. It's pathetic. Balls going in the holes aren't a product of someone fixing the rack. Yes, it's possible to make it more likely that the 9 will shoot out in one direction or the other, but you have the option to check your opponents racks. Personally, I don't like having to check each and every rack that my opponent gives me just to get a good rack. I see more rack mechanics complaining about rack-your-own than I see complaining about racking for their opponents. I think that's pretty telling in itself.

 

[The Kiss]

I will give you three trys at your 12 examples for $100 each of the 12.
When do ya want to set it up Egg?
Purdman

I want a piece of this.... Other than lining up a wing ball maybe I want to see some of these mechanics in action...I can make racks do some funky stuff but lining up certain balls is near impossible within the frame work of a good rack...Plus having gaps can work to your advantage...

 

[Gregg]

gregg, the above is what prompted my initial confrontational response. you seem to justify your response by saying that other (ignorant ballbanger) posters came to this consensus.

it is possible to set all of the racks I listed. In rack your own tournaments, you are going to see saavy players make the wingball at a VERY high percentage. I doubt you have ever witnessed a rack-your-own tournament with a bunch of shortstops and pros playing in it. This happens on a regular basis in my area - it's called the planet pool tour.

the last time I watched 2 (well known) pros play a long race rack-your-own tournament, the wingball went straight in the hole...EVERY SINGLE TIME. Actually there were usually 2-3 balls made on every break. What do you think happens when a pro and another player faceoff and both players make the wingball every single time btw? I like the pro's chances.

Really, I wish you would have said this from the beginning. This is why I come here; to learn things about pool. That said, I don't think those guys were ball bangers, personally, but maybe even they didn't know that a person can manipulate a rack to suit themselves. Good info.

 

[Tommy-D]

> In my immediate area,when someone gives me a bad rack,it's not always entirely their fault. The ball sets in the pool room here are about 25 years old if not more,and the racks are probably older than that,if the rack is not turned a certain way and the balls aren't racked in a certain order you can't get anywhere close to a decent rack. If I'm playing someplace other than there,like one of the bars or a room in a neighboring town,it's more than likely they don't know HOW to give a decent rack,not that they are deliberately trying to give me a bad one. I do know people that will bad-rack you on purpose,and are slick about it. I try to avoid them if at all possible. I guess I've never wanted to win bad enough to give bad racks to people unsolicited,the only time I do it is when they continue to do it to me after repeated checks and re-racks. To me,giving people bad racks on purpose is as bad as intentional sharking,or spitting on someones tip,it's uncouth at best and for me,tarnishes the game. Tommy D.