racking 9 ball

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
Occasionally, I see good players making "adjustments" to the rack. With their intensity and determination I have always thought it was to get the rack tight. Now I am beginning to wonder.

One of the common denominators to arguments over the rack that I have seen is that: the racker often times pushes on the balls, LIGHTLY, making out like they are getting the rack tight.

I may be in a minority but I slide the balls forward and LOCK the balls in place by spinning at least one of the two back balls (not the last one) forward. The sliding and the holding of the balls tightly to keep them from rolling much seems to make the balls extremely tight which makes for a great break, especially when at least the top 3 balls are lock-tight.

When I see players pushing on the rack and the balls lightly I am beginning to wonder if they are trying to get the rack tight or are they merely trying to get the balls snug? Is there a difference between "touching" and lock-tight?

I am going to start gently pushing on the balls lightly to "snug" them rather than to press them HARD together to see if there is a difference.

Is gently pushing and gently tapping on the balls with your fingers a form of slug racking?

Thanks,
JoeyA
 
In general, imo, if you're playing competitive 9-ball (or 10-ball... or 8-ball) and not checking the rack before breaking you're a trusting fool. Some players just can't rack... that's a fact. If you get a slug rack... it's your fault.

There's much to be learned from inspecting the rack. I never thought that... but that was before I bought Joe's DVD.
 
JoeyA said:
Occasionally, I see good players making "adjustments" to the rack. With their intensity and determination I have always thought it was to get the rack tight. Now I am beginning to wonder.

One of the common denominators to arguments over the rack that I have seen is that: the racker often times pushes on the balls, LIGHTLY, making out like they are getting the rack tight.

I may be in a minority but I slide the balls forward and LOCK the balls in place by spinning at least one of the two back balls (not the last one) forward. The sliding and the holding of the balls tightly to keep them from rolling much seems to make the balls extremely tight which makes for a great break, especially when at least the top 3 balls are lock-tight.

When I see players pushing on the rack and the balls lightly I am beginning to wonder if they are trying to get the rack tight or are they merely trying to get the balls snug? Is there a difference between "touching" and lock-tight?

I am going to start gently pushing on the balls lightly to "snug" them rather than to press them HARD together to see if there is a difference.

Is gently pushing and gently tapping on the balls with your fingers a form of slug racking?

Thanks,
JoeyA
Click to expand...


The only way to get a consistently perfect rack is to tap the table using a template.

unknownpro
 
JoeyA said:
Occasionally, I see good players making "adjustments" to the rack. With their intensity and determination I have always thought it was to get the rack tight. Now I am beginning to wonder.

One of the common denominators to arguments over the rack that I have seen is that: the racker often times pushes on the balls, LIGHTLY, making out like they are getting the rack tight.

I may be in a minority but I slide the balls forward and LOCK the balls in place by spinning at least one of the two back balls (not the last one) forward. The sliding and the holding of the balls tightly to keep them from rolling much seems to make the balls extremely tight which makes for a great break, especially when at least the top 3 balls are lock-tight.

When I see players pushing on the rack and the balls lightly I am beginning to wonder if they are trying to get the rack tight or are they merely trying to get the balls snug? Is there a difference between "touching" and lock-tight?

I am going to start gently pushing on the balls lightly to "snug" them rather than to press them HARD together to see if there is a difference.

Is gently pushing and gently tapping on the balls with your fingers a form of slug racking?

Thanks,
JoeyA
Click to expand...


Joey,

I take it you brought this up because of what you saw yesterday? I hope you understand what really happened there. It was all moves from that certain person. I've seen that person do it time and time again. It's one of the reason I quit playing. I can't stand all the moves some people try to pull and do just to win. I wouldn't want to win like that. I want to win the right way not by playing head games and trying to shark your opponent. You do understand that move though right? When you make your opponent upset he's most likely going to go off the air because his mind is some place else. I guarantee you there was nothing wrong with those racks. There was also no reason for a fast player to take 3 minutes to shoot each shot even if it was the nine ball dead straight in. It's all moves. Stall moves and head games. It's sad that some have to drop to that level just to try and win. If you dont believe me just talk to your buddy that you had a steak dinner with the other day about that certain person and what was going on. It's just not worth it. There's little money in the game and then you have to deal with all the garbage that some players bring to the table. And people wonder why pool will never go to a higher level...........

Thanks,
Josh Hillard
 
Racking loose to get an edge? May the better player win, despite the rack! Reminds me of an arm wrestling tournament I was at years ago...lightweight class. They seemed to take forever to get an acceptable grip. Finally the youngest guy, still in his teens, said to his 40's something opponent: "Old man, you want to cheat by grabbing my thumb? Go ahead, take it. I'm still going to pull you across the table!"

Then he proceeded to do just that, in less than 2 seconds....that kid had to have a wrist as strong as most men's legs.

Let 'em cheat...then still beat 'em! That's the way to go...:D
 
JoeyA said:
Occasionally, I see good players making "adjustments" to the rack. With their intensity and determination I have always thought it was to get the rack tight. Now I am beginning to wonder.

One of the common denominators to arguments over the rack that I have seen is that: the racker often times pushes on the balls, LIGHTLY, making out like they are getting the rack tight.

I may be in a minority but I slide the balls forward and LOCK the balls in place by spinning at least one of the two back balls (not the last one) forward. The sliding and the holding of the balls tightly to keep them from rolling much seems to make the balls extremely tight which makes for a great break, especially when at least the top 3 balls are lock-tight.

When I see players pushing on the rack and the balls lightly I am beginning to wonder if they are trying to get the rack tight or are they merely trying to get the balls snug? Is there a difference between "touching" and lock-tight?

I am going to start gently pushing on the balls lightly to "snug" them rather than to press them HARD together to see if there is a difference.

Is gently pushing and gently tapping on the balls with your fingers a form of slug racking?

Thanks,
JoeyA
Click to expand...

Hi Joey. It is a lot to know about the rack. Once you lear how to read it it wont matter what others do to you. The best advice i have for you is to get the racking DVD's by Joe Tucker. It is well worth the money and it will really open your eyes to some things about the rack. http://www.joetucker.net/start.html

Its a very good investment. Good luck
 
Nine Ball said:
Joey,

I take it you brought this up because of what you saw yesterday? I hope you understand what really happened there. It was all moves from that certain person. I've seen that person do it time and time again. It's one of the reason I quit playing. I can't stand all the moves some people try to pull and do just to win. I wouldn't want to win like that. I want to win the right way not by playing head games and trying to shark your opponent. You do understand that move though right? When you make your opponent upset he's most likely going to go off the air because his mind is some place else. I guarantee you there was nothing wrong with those racks. There was also no reason for a fast player to take 3 minutes to shoot each shot even if it was the nine ball dead straight in. It's all moves. Stall moves and head games. It's sad that some have to drop to that level just to try and win. If you dont believe me just talk to your buddy that you had a steak dinner with the other day about that certain person and what was going on. It's just not worth it. There's little money in the game and then you have to deal with all the garbage that some players bring to the table. And people wonder why pool will never go to a higher level...........

Thanks,
Josh Hillard
Click to expand...

Josh, I believe you give good racks. I didn't see any of the racks that you racked acting like slug racks. I am just wondering if a slug rack can be made by softly pushing the balls together instead of pushing on them hard.

Hope you make it down to New Orleans this weekend.
JoeyA
 
Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets

mr8ball said:
Hi Joey. It is a lot to know about the rack. Once you lear how to read it it wont matter what others do to you. The best advice i have for you is to get the racking DVD's by Joe Tucker. It is well worth the money and it will really open your eyes to some things about the rack. http://www.joetucker.net/start.html

Its a very good investment. Good luck
Click to expand...

Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets is inserted as Chapter 6 in Charley Bond's The Great Break Shot so thats a bargain too.
 
By now I am surprised that everyone on AZ has not purchased a copy of the Joe Tucker DVD.

That said, to answer the question about why are they pulling the top ball....to make the 9 ball break available is why!

The top three balls are important only so you do not launch the CB off the table. After that the real action is every other ball (see JT's video).

By pulling or taping the top ball you can lock the top three such that when you (a non-JT student) check the rack all looks good. In essence they are disturbing a very important ball to make the 9 ball break available.

GET THE JOE TUCKER VIDEO AND SEND THE CHEATS TO HELL!!!
 
cigardave said:
In general, imo, if you're playing competitive 9-ball (or 10-ball... or 8-ball) and not checking the rack before breaking you're a trusting fool. Some players just can't rack... that's a fact. If you get a slug rack... it's your fault.

There's much to be learned from inspecting the rack. I never thought that... but that was before I bought Joe's DVD.
Click to expand...

I agree with this 100%. Joe's DVD tells you what to look for and in some cases how to use it to your advantage when breaking a "gimmicked" rack. Even if you do not invest in his video, you should ALWAYS inspect the rack before breaking. JMO.

Southpaw
 
What you see a lot of around here is players touching balls in the rack and adjusting them after the rack has been lifted from the table. I don't think this should be allowed.

As far as head games and sharking go, I was victimized a few months back by a guy who complained when I was racking for myself because the one ball wasn't dead center on the spot. This obsession didn't strike him until we were six games into the match. I haven't played the nit since and don't intend to.

How I miss the poolroom I grew up in. The owner used to throw out all kinds of nits, including cheats and guys who didn't pay up. I didn't realize it then, but I guess he was some kind of idealist.
 
Southpaw said:
I agree with this 100%. Joe's DVD tells you what to look for and in some cases how to use it to your advantage when breaking a "gimmicked" rack. Even if you do not invest in his video, you should ALWAYS inspect the rack before breaking. JMO.

Southpaw
Click to expand...

I have Joe's book on racking.

Primarily what I wanted to know is if there is a significant outcome difference between the way I rack balls and the way others rack balls (by gently collecting the balls together, making sure that at least the two front balls touch each other).

I see some very good players seemingly paying really close attention to making sure at least the two front balls touch each other and even paying close attention to the rest of the balls, GENTLY, PUSHING with slight pressure, always acting like they are trying to get the balls tight. The other player inspects the rack and can't find anything wrong with the rack, goes back breaks SQUARE and patooie, not much fireworks. The breaker makes disparaging remarks against the racker, the racker laments, "I froze all of the balls, what more can he want?".

I push the whole rack forward holding them tightly together before placing them on the head spot, when I get to the head spot, the front three balls are sometimes locked in place. If they aren't I move the rack forward and let the one ball find a hole to settle in, then I push all of the balls HARD toward the one, locking them in place. Most people seldom complain about my racks because they seem to spread the balls well, most of the time. I seldom ever see anyone putting hard pressure on the rack trying to force the balls together and am just wondering if this TLC that I see MANY players using to rack the balls is a mind game, a subtle slug rack technique or an honest effort to give the best rack possible.

Another thing: Is racking the one ball on the spot but left and right of the center of the spot (but still on the spot) legal? I have had professional pool players move the one ball approximately 1/8" to the left of the center of the spot one game, then move it 1/8" to the right of the center of the spot on the next game. It is difficult to see that small shift but I have seen it many times. If the three front balls are frozen but the racker shifts the left/right position of the one ball from one rack to another (STILL KEEPING THE ONE BALL ON THE BLACK SPOT)- IS THAT LEGAL?
JoeyA
 
Not trying to justify what this person was doing, as they very well might have been trying to intentionally slug rack people, but I do have one example of a situation where pushing lightly on the balls might result in a better rack. One of the pool halls I frequent has excellent equipment... everything except for the racks. They are cheap, lightweight things, and what I noticed about them is that when I push forcefully on the balls, the sides of the rack bulge very slightly, resulting in a misshapen rack that will inevitably have multiple gaps. I have found, with this sub-standard equipment, that by applying light pressure to the back of the rack, the odds of getting them all touching are much better. With a well-built rack, however, I would assume that applying more pressure would result in a tighter rack.

I would also concur with everyone who recommended Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets; the information in it is invaluable for 9-ball players.

Good rolls,
Aaron
 
JoeyA, a friend of mine showed me this one thing that the pros do with the rack. They push them up and and then using their hands, they deftly move the top five balls under the one so that the balls under the one seperate a bit from touching each other. The one can still be touching the front two balls but the substance of the move is to squash the front five under the one so they separate. I say squash because when it was shown to me, the balls appears to squash outwards, its like imagining a tight rack that moves outward just a fraction.

I know when this friend of mine showed me how the balls react when the rack is manipulated in this way, it was like a semi slug rack. You dont get the full out bleh smoosh that happens when you hit the genuine sluggo rack but this kinda rack doesnt separate with gusto and the balls end up all over the table but nothing goes. Sounds strange but then when I watched some pros like Archer racking, I saw that they were pushing the balls up to rack and then their hands would run over the top part of the rack. I was like you, thinking they were moving the balls in tighter, but now I see that and I wonder if they are "squashing" the balls down and out a bit. My friend who showed me was quite good at the move and could do it fairly quick. He told me that as quick as he did it, the pros could do it in an even faster, smoother manner. Like any rapid sleight of hand trick, its very hard to see what is going on when you have someone skilled at this move doing it.
 
tapping balls

PoolSponge said:
By now I am surprised that everyone on AZ has not purchased a copy of the Joe Tucker DVD.

That said, to answer the question about why are they pulling the top ball....to make the 9 ball break available is why!

The top three balls are important only so you do not launch the CB off the table. After that the real action is every other ball (see JT's video).

By pulling or taping the top ball you can lock the top three such that when you (a non-JT student) check the rack all looks good. In essence they are disturbing a very important ball to make the 9 ball break available.

GET THE JOE TUCKER VIDEO AND SEND THE CHEATS TO HELL!!!
Click to expand...
Please correct me if i am wrong, but is there not a rule that states that no one can tap ball fo the exception of the TD ????:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Without revealing the complete secrets of Joe's DVD I will just say this....you are looking at the rack wrong. The top three are tight, great, but the secret lies beyond those balls. Contrary to popular belief the gap between the second balls (middle of those two) means nothing. Gaf racks occur in two places. One results in 9 ball breaks, the other results in a decent to poor spread and very rarely pockets a ball. The better rackers will know how to give both and you will receive the latter.

If you have access to Joe's DVD or books reread that section and pay close attention to the gaps surrounding the 9 ball to truly understand the individual implications involved in the true definition of a gaff or slug rack.

Joe is a god.

Stick: when I say tapping I mean with the rack not another ball. I do not believe ANYONE should ever tap with another ball for any reason. The tapping I am referring to is a subtle move to push the head ball back in order to freeze it to the second row.
 
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uwate said:
JoeyA, a friend of mine showed me this one thing that the pros do with the rack. They push them up and and then using their hands, they deftly move the top five balls under the one so that the balls under the one seperate a bit from touching each other. The one can still be touching the front two balls but the substance of the move is to squash the front five under the one so they separate. I say squash because when it was shown to me, the balls appears to squash outwards, its like imagining a tight rack that moves outward just a fraction.

I know when this friend of mine showed me how the balls react when the rack is manipulated in this way, it was like a semi slug rack. You dont get the full out bleh smoosh that happens when you hit the genuine sluggo rack but this kinda rack doesnt separate with gusto and the balls end up all over the table but nothing goes. Sounds strange but then when I watched some pros like Archer racking, I saw that they were pushing the balls up to rack and then their hands would run over the top part of the rack. I was like you, thinking they were moving the balls in tighter, but now I see that and I wonder if they are "squashing" the balls down and out a bit. My friend who showed me was quite good at the move and could do it fairly quick. He told me that as quick as he did it, the pros could do it in an even faster, smoother manner. Like any rapid sleight of hand trick, its very hard to see what is going on when you have someone skilled at this move doing it.
Click to expand...

Another thing that I see which is peculiar is the placing of the hand on top of the rack of balls as if they are trying to imbed the balls into the cloth with their hand however they are gently pushing the balls into the cloth. What probably happens is just what you described, the balls have a tendency to spread and it takes some of the umph out of the break.

Does anyone have any youtube.com videos of slug racking in action? You can send them to me via private messaging.

Thanks,
JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
...............
I may be in a minority but I slide the balls forward and LOCK the balls in place by spinning at least one of the two back balls (not the last one) forward. The sliding and the holding of the balls tightly to keep them from rolling much seems to make the balls extremely tight which makes for a great break, especially when at least the top 3 balls are lock-tight..........
Click to expand...

I took a lesson from a top pro and he demonstrated that by spinning (not forward as you are saying) the last two balls before the back ball you can give a dead rack.

So, in your case I would say that even with a small unintentional side spin the 'gear effect' might still cause a gap because pool balls are not perfectly round.

Anyway, if you were racking for me to break and spinning those balls, I would have some serious conversations with you. :D
 
whitewolf said:
I took a lesson from a top pro and he demonstrated that by spinning (not forward as you are saying) the last two balls before the back ball you can give a dead rack.

So, in your case I would say that even with a small unintentional side spin the 'gear effect' might still cause a gap because pool balls are not perfectly round.

Anyway, if you were racking for me to break and spinning those balls, I would have some serious conversations with you. :D
Click to expand...

You know, that reminds me of something I heard Keither say when he was doing commentary on a 1-p match at Derby (Shannon & Jose, IIRC). He was talking about people who would try to manipulate the 9-ball rack, and the phrase he used was "spinning the balls and greasing them up". The grease part's pretty obvious, LOL, but I never really understood the physics of "tricking" a rack by spinning balls. :confused: Is taking advantage of (or attempting to negate, I guess) the out-of-roundness of the balls the only thing here, or is there some other reason why one might spin the balls? Also, how can a rack where all of the balls are touching (and are free of foreign substances, obviously) not be a good rack? I also have Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets, but I don't recall him addressing these questions. Any explanation would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Aaron
 
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