Radically improving my ball pocketing has shown me one thing...

ChopStick

Unsane Poster
Silver Member
the incredibly stupid decisions I make. I am truly awful. I have done a lot of work over the last year and making balls has never been easier. I don't have to think about it anymore. On a bar table I rarely miss a ball. Before long my big table game will be the same way.

I should be out every time I step up to a table with open shots but I am not getting out. I pick the wrong shot, send the cue ball down the wrong path or get hung behind a ball. Afterwards I see I could have just done this other simple thing and it would have turned out differently. It is embarrassing.
 

slide13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sounds like you're well on your way to playing great pool. You've put in a lot of work and become a great shot, now time to put in the same work to build a great strategic game. Sounds like the right path to me, good strategy doesn't go far when you can't make balls so you're doing it in the right order, IMO.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Me too. Can make excellent shots....dead straight....reverse cuts, etc, but ol whitey still has a mind of its own sometimes. Getting better though. Just keep practicing. Use your tangent lines...use stop shot on cuts will make cue ball travel at 90 degree angle from contact point, etc, etc,. You'll get it. One day it will click.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
It has been talked about that a big part of amateur problems is not knowing when the shot they want to take is the right shot.

There was an experiment that showed that professionals who had to shoot shots directed by amateurs had a vastly lower rate of success running the table BECAUSE the amateurs were making them shoot shots that were low percentage for the desired outcome even for a pro caliber player.

Yet, the amateurs routinely tried to play those shots in the belief that they were good options.

I firmly think that learning to recognize this is a huge step in pool. One of the hidden things that we don't really talk about deeply enough. At one pocket.org they do or did used to do a lot of wwyd (what would you do) threads where all the options would be discussed and argued about. That sort of thing is hugely educational I think.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It has been talked about that a big part of amateur problems is not knowing when the shot they want to take is the right shot.

There was an experiment that showed that professionals who had to shoot shots directed by amateurs had a vastly lower rate of success running the table BECAUSE the amateurs were making them shoot shots that were low percentage for the desired outcome even for a pro caliber player.

Yet, the amateurs routinely tried to play those shots in the belief that they were good options.

I firmly think that learning to recognize this is a huge step in pool. One of the hidden things that we don't really talk about deeply enough. At one pocket.org they do or did used to do a lot of wwyd (what would you do) threads where all the options would be discussed and argued about. That sort of thing is hugely educational I think.

You know, that sounds like fun! That would make a cool exhibition and get the spectators involved. I could see where that would help an amateur learn first hand instead of just lecturing the right way.
 

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You've discovered what I did in 1972 watching Buddy Hall beat every top player at Bennies room. If you dont control whitey, you will shoot until you shoot yourself in the foot.Position play is what pool is about. Its easy to learn to 'make balls' It takes much much longer to see patterns, control whitey. AND make balls while playing position.
You have a good basic start. Now work on whitey.
Good luck
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Now just watch your Angle, Speed, and Spin (ASS), and you will be fine. If you miss a "leave" in practice, set it up again, and shoot it till you can get the leave three times in a row. The more you see it, the more you know it ;)
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Now just watch your Angle, Speed, and Spin (ASS), and you will be fine. If you miss a "leave" in practice, set it up again, and shoot it till you can get the leave three times in a row. The more you see it, the more you know it ;)

Right on. Johnnyt
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is so much emphasis on aiming systems and ball pocketing in pool compared to playing position. Both are equally important imo. You don't hit a pot and think I'm roughly in the ball park to make this, so playing position to be in a rough ball park shouldn't happen either. The thing pool has over any other pocket billiard game is diamonds...they simplify positional routes so much and five you something to aim for. Dr Dave runs through positional play extremely well, and all free of charge.

Given that you potting is much better now, your practice can be devoted to position. One thing that helped me understand CB paths was watching YouTube videos of the pros. Pause after the break, set the table up the same and try run out. Watch the video and see how the pros do it, set the table back up and try it their way. Tour not going to be able to play inch perfect position like the pros, so placing the CB by hand to where the pros have it is fine, just shoot the shot how they shoot it and notice how easier they make a run out.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
the incredibly stupid decisions I make. I am truly awful. I have done a lot of work over the last year and making balls has never been easier. I don't have to think about it anymore. On a bar table I rarely miss a ball. Before long my big table game will be the same way.

I should be out every time I step up to a table with open shots but I am not getting out. I pick the wrong shot, send the cue ball down the wrong path or get hung behind a ball. Afterwards I see I could have just done this other simple thing and it would have turned out differently. It is embarrassing.

What game are you playing. I'm a big believer in 14.1 to teach ball pocketing and decision making. Get on a 9 foot table and play some 14.1.
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Chopstick, what has gone wrong with you ? You played very, very well at Susan's, way better than the average good bear.

I'll never forget that first game of 1-Hole we played. I make the perfect break, have four balls on my side & you are by the rail at the 2nd Diamond. 4 Shots later, my 4 Balls are gone & you have a room full....

I can't believe your play has suffered so much.
 

Houstoer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am feeling kind of the same way. Lately my ball pocketing has gone up a level (thanks to Mark Wilson's book and a tweak on the stance); also the ki-tech tip I got installed. I now feel that if I can see it good chance I can pocket it BUT I noticed the other night playing BCA 8 ball that my mind was getting lazy. I wasn't purely focusing on shape after pocketing. I was shooting balls in and didn't worry that much on where I would be because I figured I would just hit the shot. Almost made me lose a game because of very poor positioning. Gotta keep the mind in it as well and think shape.
 

Zphix

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is so much emphasis on aiming systems and ball pocketing in pool compared to playing position. Both are equally important imo. You don't hit a pot and think I'm roughly in the ball park to make this, so playing position to be in a rough ball park shouldn't happen either. The thing pool has over any other pocket billiard game is diamonds...they simplify positional routes so much and five you something to aim for. Dr Dave runs through positional play extremely well, and all free of charge.

Given that you potting is much better now, your practice can be devoted to position. One thing that helped me understand CB paths was watching YouTube videos of the pros. Pause after the break, set the table up the same and try run out. Watch the video and see how the pros do it, set the table back up and try it their way. Tour not going to be able to play inch perfect position like the pros, so placing the CB by hand to where the pros have it is fine, just shoot the shot how they shoot it and notice how easier they make a run out.

I really like this idea...

I'm going to start doing this ;)

Sent from my X501_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I should be out every time I step up to a table with open shots but I am not getting out. I pick the wrong shot, send the cue ball down the wrong path or get hung behind a ball. Afterwards I see I could have just done this other simple thing and it would have turned out differently. It is embarrassing.

That is kinda where I am at right now. I spend quite a bit of time watching interweb tournaments to see what they do compared to my thinking. The problem I think I make most of the time is choosing the correct route to take for position, it seems like I get real close to my desired place but I end up hooked. I need to learn to set up run-outs so I am not crossing the shot line for position but rather moving along shot line so if speed is wrong I end up long or short in stead of hooked. It sucks running 6 then leaving your opponent a wide open table to work with.
 

ChopStick

Unsane Poster
Silver Member
Chopstick, what has gone wrong with you ? You played very, very well at Susan's, way better than the average good bear.

I'll never forget that first game of 1-Hole we played. I make the perfect break, have four balls on my side & you are by the rail at the 2nd Diamond. 4 Shots later, my 4 Balls are gone & you have a room full....

I can't believe your play has suffered so much.

Hi Ceebee. I am really enjoying that new model BreakRak. It has attracted some attention down at the pool hall when I pull it out in the afternoons. I have had a few people come over and try it. When they ask how much it cost and I tell them it costs about the same as a break stick. Instead of buying a new break stick I decided to buy a break shot instead.

The time period you mention was the peak of my game. I had reached the limit of what I could accomplish and I could find no way around it. I was stuck. I had a 9 foot Diamond Professional in the living room. I had a regimented practice routine. Four hours a night during the week. Eight to ten hours a day on the weekend. I was working drills from Joe Tuckers material, the Pro Books and a few others. I played 14.1 when I wasn't practicing drills. I could run 60s but that was it. Never any more than that. I was taking lessons from Grady Matthews and Buddy Hall. I was training like an athlete for competition. I destroyed everyone in APA for 2 years as a 9. So I quit APA and played the Seminole Mens Pro Tour down in Florida. It was then I realized, I was never going to win against those guys.

I had done everything I could possibly do and I absolutely could not get any better. The reason was fundamentals. I had gone as far as my stance, alignment and stroke could take me. It was the end of that road and I knew it. So, I quit all competition and began a years long quest to rediscover and rebuild my game from the ground up. I have been practicing alone for years searching for the answer. Never even played a game with anyone for all that time. I did not want to take a chance on slipping back into old habits just to win.

Well, this past year, I found it (or I have convinced myself I have). :D

I have managed to move my swing/stroke plane around until my stick is now centered perfectly in my visual field. It is like looking through a pilots heads up display. Wherever I look there is a target line right down the center and that line is my cue. My back hand feels like it is directly behind the back of my head. It is also effortless and repeatable.

Next I went to work refining the impurities out of my stroke. Those tiny variances from shot to shot that add up to inconsistency. I begin each practice session by lining up the cue ball diamond to diamond the length of the table. I strike the cue ball and leave my tip in the finish position. The goal is to have the cue ball come back and strike my tip dead center. I will repeat this shot until it does. If it does not then that is the only shot I will work on that day. If I cannot strike the cue ball accurately to begin with then anything I would practice after that has no value because it is not repeatable.

Next I practice precise application of english in half diamond resolutions. Shoot the cue ball straight to a diamond and have it come back a half diamond over. Then a full diamond, a diamond and a half and so on. To the right and left side. I begin every practice day with this routine. Now, aiming at an object ball is like shooting a rifle. I just have to look at the ball and I drill the center of the pocket. I have also gained the ability to spin the bejesus out of the ball. I can cue the ball so far over that part of my tip is hanging off the edge of the cueball. I still hit the ball solid and I can make object balls accurately doing that. Spin shots I never dreamed of before have become routine. Buddy Hall once told me that I had to learn to use the whole cue ball instead of staying near the center all the time. Well, now I know what he was talking about.

As a result of the above changes I lost all my ability to sense position play. The ball doesn't move the same way it used to. I am having unintended collisions all over the place. To make things worse, the patterns I select are just wrong. I look back and wonder why I was going that way when this way would have been simpler.

I have an idea. There is a guy in town that teaches 3 cushion billiards and there is a table in a pool room across town. I just gave him a call and I am going to meet him Monday. I am going to try and become a cue ball moving freak. :D
 

ChopStick

Unsane Poster
Silver Member
There is so much emphasis on aiming systems and ball pocketing in pool compared to playing position. Both are equally important imo. You don't hit a pot and think I'm roughly in the ball park to make this, so playing position to be in a rough ball park shouldn't happen either. The thing pool has over any other pocket billiard game is diamonds...they simplify positional routes so much and five you something to aim for. Dr Dave runs through positional play extremely well, and all free of charge.

Given that you potting is much better now, your practice can be devoted to position. One thing that helped me understand CB paths was watching YouTube videos of the pros. Pause after the break, set the table up the same and try run out. Watch the video and see how the pros do it, set the table back up and try it their way. Tour not going to be able to play inch perfect position like the pros, so placing the CB by hand to where the pros have it is fine, just shoot the shot how they shoot it and notice how easier they make a run out.

That is an excellent idea. I'm on it.
 

ChopStick

Unsane Poster
Silver Member
That is kinda where I am at right now. I spend quite a bit of time watching interweb tournaments to see what they do compared to my thinking. The problem I think I make most of the time is choosing the correct route to take for position, it seems like I get real close to my desired place but I end up hooked. I need to learn to set up run-outs so I am not crossing the shot line for position but rather moving along shot line so if speed is wrong I end up long or short in stead of hooked. It sucks running 6 then leaving your opponent a wide open table to work with.

Exactly. This didn't use to be a problem. Now it is. I am playing guys that a few years ago I would have run over like a speed bump and they are hanging even with me because I am getting hung up and leaving them tap outs.
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well Chopstick, there are wizards in every pool Room, too bad you can't get a buddy coach where you live to discuss your strategy. Sometimes playing a rack backwards (mentally) can help you to get on that next to the last ball where you need to be, for the win.

Learning some 3C will help you learn to move around the table, that's for sure. Learning to take the time mapping your shot, will reap rewards & soon you'll be using that info in your Pocket Billiard game..

Good Luck
 

Colonel

Raised by Wolves in a Pool Hall
Silver Member
Many here have commented on position play being your next step & controlling the rock is what it's all about but first and foremost you have to not only know where you want to be for your next shot but for every shot for the remainder of the rack, at least the next 3 shots bare minimum to start. It's not enough to get on the next ball, you also have to be on the RIGHT SIDE of the next ball. If your shotmaking is up to speed then this next step will not only take you to where you're getting out of the rack but to where you'll start stringing multiple racks together. Work on this because you'll find that if you're on the wrong side of the ball it will be a very frustrating experience. I also recommend using a minimum amount of spin. While it may look cool to move the ball all over the table you WILL discover in long sessions you'll start getting out of line if you move it excessively & if you gamble that can get expensive. Stop shots, using small amounts of inside, less than an 1/8 of a tip to stun balls and drag them. This also allows for hitting the ball with the same speed most of the time & shooting similar shots most of the time. Good luck.
 
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