Rail First kick Diagram

frankncali

frankncali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anyone have a diagram or know of an online lesson or pics of going
rail first to make a ball.

You know the shots I am talking about hopefully :D

Ball is a little off the rail and perhaps you a hooked or perhaps not but you need to go rail first and then pocket the ball changing the angle coming off the OB.

I need to find something to show a lower rated player thats a friend of mine. The information seems to make more sense to her if its not directly from me :rolleyes: and if I can provide her and internet link.


Thanks for the help
 
Here is an idea.

1, Draw a line half width of a ball from the rail.
2, Find an mirror image of OB on the other side of the line.
3, Find the ghost ball to shoot the imagined OB into the middle of pocket
4, Connect the center of that ghost ball to the center of cue ball

Hope this helps and perhaps the are experts who can explain this better :)

CueTable Help

 
frankncali said:
Does anyone have a diagram or know of an online lesson or pics of going
rail first to make a ball.

You know the shots I am talking about hopefully :D

Ball is a little off the rail and perhaps you a hooked or perhaps not but you need to go rail first and then pocket the ball changing the angle coming off the OB.

I need to find something to show a lower rated player thats a friend of mine. The information seems to make more sense to her if its not directly from me :rolleyes: and if I can provide her and internet link.


Thanks for the help
Click to expand...

The method changes from shot to shot. and of course there is the speed you need for that shot that becomes a factor too. But the eaiest startinpoint for learning to hit those rail first is imagine a mirror image of the ball you want to hit (from the tip if the cushion) and aim at that. Of course remembering distance from the pocket and rail change this. Also some of the shots it helps to use a bit of running english.

CueTable Help

 
another simple method (not so easy to explain but real easy to do) is this:

Line your cue directly behind the OB where you want the CB to contact and notice where the cue and the rail meet, (to make this simple, the joint of the cue matches up with the rail):

CueTable Help



Then move the cue so the tip is at the cushion and draw a line from the cue ball to that spot on the cue (the joint in this demonstration):

CueTable Help



If your friend can visualize a line from the cue ball to the spot on the cue and can see where the cue ball meets the rail, she'll get it every time.
 
This is one of those shots yo have to practice over and over until you get the idea of speed, spin, angle IMO. Johnnyt
 
MilwShooter said:
another simple method (not so easy to explain but real easy to do) is this:

Line your cue directly behind the OB where you want the CB to contact and notice where the cue and the rail meet, (to make this simple, the joint of the cue matches up with the rail):

CueTable Help



Then move the cue so the tip is at the cushion and draw a line from the cue ball to that spot on the cue (the joint in this demonstration):

CueTable Help



If your friend can visualize a line from the cue ball to the spot on the cue and can see where the cue ball meets the rail, she'll get it every time.
Click to expand...
I use this method and it works.

BVal
 
Neil said:
I am not sure how to diagram it on the wei table. All you have to do it find the contact point on the ob. Then take that distance paralled to the rail, and double it. Lood back to the cb, and you will see where you have to hit the rail. Works real good.
Click to expand...

This is a good system,and relatively easy for a new comer or beginner to understand:thumbup:
 
MilwShooter said:
another simple method (not so easy to explain but real easy to do) is this:

Line your cue directly behind the OB where you want the CB to contact and notice where the cue and the rail meet, (to make this simple, the joint of the cue matches up with the rail):

CueTable Help



Then move the cue so the tip is at the cushion and draw a line from the cue ball to that spot on the cue (the joint in this demonstration):

CueTable Help



If your friend can visualize a line from the cue ball to the spot on the cue and can see where the cue ball meets the rail, she'll get it every time.
Click to expand...
Good visual diagram ,and a good method of at least contact:thumbup:
 
The simplest explanation would blend cuetable and tjm's I think.

You imagine the mirror ball that's the same distance from the rail. Start out aiming at that. Shooting right now wouldn't kick the ball in but it would allow you to hit the object ball dead in the face without cutting it. The CB should hit it and more or less stop.

Now adjust your aim to cut the 'outside' of that mirror ball a bit. So in the diagrams, you'd aim to hit the right half of it. That should cut it in.

Rather than imagining a ghost ball for the mirror ball (which is asking a lot of your ability to imagine things) you should just figure out how much further up the rail you want to aim, based on eyeballing and experience. Often it's not much more than an inch of adjustment.
 
Thanks guys

I know the methods and use them but SHE is pretty new. I was hoping to find a simple video of it so she could watch it.
I explained it to her and she made some shots doing it but wanted to see someone besides her Friend describe it....:rolleyes:

Thanks I need to get her setup to see Cuetable.
 
frankncali said:
Thanks guys

I know the methods and use them but SHE is pretty new. I was hoping to find a simple video of it so she could watch it.
I explained it to her and she made some shots doing it but wanted to see someone besides her Friend describe it....:rolleyes:

Thanks I need to get her setup to see Cuetable.
Click to expand...

Find a mirror and set it up along side the rail you intend to hit. This will give her the visual of what to look for. While looking in the mirror, place another ball where you want the cueball to hit. Maybe that would help.
 
It is interesting how all of the sudden people started to talk about kick shots at the same time. Someone also made a similar post on cuetable yesterday, JMS made another and then frankncali posted one more this afternoon.

These are the threads about kicking in the last 21 hours:

http://talk.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=5427
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=146378
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=1879251

In addition, here is a diagram about 1 rail kick made from an old gentleman's hang drawing. It's also called the Sid system. A German instructor has also posted the common "parallel system" in there:

http://talk.cuetable.com/showthread.php?p=4379


For anyone who'd like to learn cuetable, here is a short 6 min video showing how you can also make your own diagrams:

http://talk.cuetable.com/DemoVideo.php
 
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I always suggest Ewa Lawrences "Idiots Guide to Pool" for people just starting out, it has a lot of helpful bits of advice as well as a few diagrams showing different kick systems.

I just had to use the system I was explaining last night, I was tied up to the 7 ball and the 3 was in a VERY tough spot up table, using the cue system I explained I was able to hit exactly where I needed, it headed into the pocket but I hit a little too hard and it bobbled...But it still worked.
 
Wish i could help but i'm going with johnny here i learned from feel and practice i would get confused measuring out a kick with a cue a mirror and some other device
 
cuetable said:
Here is an idea.

1, Draw a line half width of a ball from the rail.
2, Find an mirror image of OB on the other side of the line.
3, Find the ghost ball to shoot the imagined OB into the middle of pocket
4, Connect the center of that ghost ball to the center of cue ball

Hope this helps and perhaps the are experts who can explain this better :)

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

This is correct in theory, but fails in practice because the CB actually rebounds less than the equal angle would suggest (I'm not sure why, but I think Bob Jewett estimates the outgoing angle is as much as 1/3 shallower than the incoming angle). To compensate you have to aim this shot somewhat steeper into the rail.

pj
chgo
 
I cover this in a recent article I did. In practice I find that using the dividing point of the rail track (worn area where the bottom of the balls travel as they hit the rails, about 1/2 ball width from the rail cushion) works better for the mirror position on shallow approach angles and when the object ball is close to the cushion, otherwise just estimating to the nose of the cushion works pretty well. It's also important to mirror from the position you want the cue ball to hit, not from the object ball itself, and experimenting with speed and spin helps. And as Patrick said, this gets you to the correct geometric point but you have to account for the slight difference in rebound angles with speed, spin, or experience.

To simplify, the initial cuetable diagram posted is a good visual and incorporates these concepts, easy for a beginner to visualize and grasp, and using your cue stick to measure the correct point is helpful.
Scott
 
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