Railbird Action

lewdo26

Registered User will do
Silver Member
This is actually my first post here or anywhere regarding pool. I am from New York; a beginner with an obsessive streak. I think part of my obsession is for the game itself but at least some of it has to do with the human interaction that the game provides (from pool halls and action rooms to dives with a warped slate Dynamo table).
I don't know if many will agree with me, but there are certain aspects of pool hall culture today that have impoverished that human interaction, and I believe, the game as well. Because pool is not darts or any such silly pastime, we as lovers of the game are at the mercy of business establishments that own the equipment (tables, balls, etc.). In New York, pool hall establishments have gone from places where pool and pool players were given priority, to *theme bars* where pool is just the side show for champaigne-flute-holding yuppies to pass the time. Such is the case with what used to be Chelsea Billiards and Q Lounge, for example. Granted, other places have survived, like Broadway Billiards, which still has some rough edges to it left. But(!), such places only limp along without as much activity as one would like to see.
Part of it probably has to do with the fear pool room frequenters might have of gambling openly; but another thing might be that these establishments don't allow railbirds to just be! Two days ago I was at B'way Billiards practicing position for two hours. After they turned off the lights at my table, I brought the rack back to the desk and, not having yet finished my beer, I sat near a table where some heavy nine-ball was going on. But I'll be damned if the guy from the desk didn't start giving me shit for just sitting there awhile without paying table time! Now, I've talked to experienced players that were around in the 60s and a few have told me that they got to play good pool partly because they were once total hounds watching the games of others better than themselves. Well, it seems like I might have missed the time and age for that, but that will not make me pay for more table time in pool halls... probably less, come to think of it.
 
Wow, that's pretty harsh. I've never seen anything like that in any of the poolhalls I've been to. Of course Missouri is a far cry from New York, but it sounds like the guy was just trying to be an ass.
 
Welcome to the board Lewdo. Unfortunately, pool halls are a business and the people that own them will usually do whatever is necessary to survive and make a profit. That endeavor does not always benefit the pool players. We have a big place where I live that had 32 tables, all 4 1/2 X 9's and one 5 X 10 snooker table. The guy wasn't making enough money on pool so he started having birthday parties for kids and started covering many of the pool tables and used them as party tables with padded benches around them. He makes more money doing that then renting the tables to pool players. The guy has a right to make a living even though he's ruined the place for serious pool players.
 
welcome to the board Lewdo. Some room owners are like that. They have no customer service. Sam
 
Thanks for the welcoming replies

Rickw said:
Welcome to the board Lewdo. Unfortunately, pool halls are a business and the people that own them will usually do whatever is necessary to survive and make a profit. That endeavor does not always benefit the pool players. We have a big place where I live that had 32 tables, all 4 1/2 X 9's and one 5 X 10 snooker table. The guy wasn't making enough money on pool so he started having birthday parties for kids and started covering many of the pool tables and used them as party tables with padded benches around them. He makes more money doing that then renting the tables to pool players. The guy has a right to make a living even though he's ruined the place for serious pool players.
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I am writing mostly to say thanks, but I do have a reply to Rickw. You are right, Rick, that pool halls are businesses like any other. And yet, either pool hall owners switch to more profitable businesses altogether (and these days in New York, start-up businesses are taking a hit), or they think of their existing customers. As for the mixed-business pool halls, like the one you mentioned, or like Slate in New York (also a yuppie restaurant and nightclub), they are simply looking for the best business strategy and seem to make money out of their ears. However, I am not sure that pool halls which are only pool halls benefit materially from not allowing people to simply watch. I can think of Barnes&Nobles; one secret for their success seems to be that they make it very comfortable for customers to browse. And customers spend more time there and buy more as a result. Thank you.
 
lewdo26 said:
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I am writing mostly to say thanks, but I do have a reply to Rickw. You are right, Rick, that pool halls are businesses like any other. And yet, either pool hall owners switch to more profitable businesses altogether (and these days in New York, start-up businesses are taking a hit), or they think of their existing customers. As for the mixed-business pool halls, like the one you mentioned, or like Slate in New York (also a yuppie restaurant and nightclub), they are simply looking for the best business strategy and seem to make money out of their ears. However, I am not sure that pool halls which are only pool halls benefit materially from not allowing people to simply watch. I can think of Barnes&Nobles; one secret for their success seems to be that they make it very comfortable for customers to browse. And customers spend more time there and buy more as a result. Thank you.


SO did find out who was playing ?And for how much . The man that was askin u to pay your time .Was Mr lee.nice guy but he does love that money.
 
lewdo26 said:
This is actually my first post here or anywhere regarding pool. I am from New York; a beginner with an obsessive streak. I think part of my obsession is for the game itself but at least some of it has to do with the human interaction that the game provides (from pool halls and action rooms to dives with a warped slate Dynamo table).
I don't know if many will agree with me, but there are certain aspects of pool hall culture today that have impoverished that human interaction, and I believe, the game as well. Because pool is not darts or any such silly pastime, we as lovers of the game are at the mercy of business establishments that own the equipment (tables, balls, etc.). In New York, pool hall establishments have gone from places where pool and pool players were given priority, to *theme bars* where pool is just the side show for champaigne-flute-holding yuppies to pass the time. Such is the case with what used to be Chelsea Billiards and Q Lounge, for example. Granted, other places have survived, like Broadway Billiards, which still has some rough edges to it left. But(!), such places only limp along without as much activity as one would like to see.
Part of it probably has to do with the fear pool room frequenters might have of gambling openly; but another thing might be that these establishments don't allow railbirds to just be! Two days ago I was at B'way Billiards practicing position for two hours. After they turned off the lights at my table, I brought the rack back to the desk and, not having yet finished my beer, I sat near a table where some heavy nine-ball was going on. But I'll be damned if the guy from the desk didn't start giving me shit for just sitting there awhile without paying table time! Now, I've talked to experienced players that were around in the 60s and a few have told me that they got to play good pool partly because they were once total hounds watching the games of others better than themselves. Well, it seems like I might have missed the time and age for that, but that will not make me pay for more table time in pool halls... probably less, come to think of it.

I grew up as a railbird in the 60’s and 70’s, but in the room I played, there were seats in place for would-be railbirds, meaning management expected and accepted railbirds, recognizing them as part of their establishment’s culture. As the railbirds were seated in a sectioned off area of the poolroom, they were out of harm’s way.

Times have changed. Many poolroom proprietors are doing more than ever to show respect for and protect the privacy of those paying table time. In addition, like all business owners, only paying customers are welcome on their premises. That’s bad news for the railbirds, but good news for most who frequent poolrooms.

If you want to sweat some great pool, attend Tri-State tour events (schedule at www.tristate-tour.com) in the New York City area. Finally, if, as a beginner, you understand the importance of watching good players as a means of learning the game of pool, you’re on your way to improvement.
 
Good Point

I think you have a good point about Barnes & Nobles Lewdo. I worked a few hours on the weekends at a small pool hall and if no one was there, people were less likely to come in but if there were some people in there, people were more likely to come in. Crowds draw people and B&N figured that out and that's probably one of the reasons they're as successful as they are.



lewdo26 said:
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I am writing mostly to say thanks, but I do have a reply to Rickw. You are right, Rick, that pool halls are businesses like any other. And yet, either pool hall owners switch to more profitable businesses altogether (and these days in New York, start-up businesses are taking a hit), or they think of their existing customers. As for the mixed-business pool halls, like the one you mentioned, or like Slate in New York (also a yuppie restaurant and nightclub), they are simply looking for the best business strategy and seem to make money out of their ears. However, I am not sure that pool halls which are only pool halls benefit materially from not allowing people to simply watch. I can think of Barnes&Nobles; one secret for their success seems to be that they make it very comfortable for customers to browse. And customers spend more time there and buy more as a result. Thank you.
 
Exactly Rick, kinda like traveling in a strange small town and there are two resturants, one has a packed parking lot and the other is empty. Where you gonna eat? :D
 
When i lived in San Antonio, there were a few different options for pool halls. My favorite was Bradleys Billiards. He only had 5 or 6 tables, all 9 footers I believe, the room smelled like stale beer and smoke. No TV, they may've had a jukebox. The table time was very cheap and so was the beer. It was GREAT!!

Most people liked the Fox and Hound, a yuppie place that had 100 different TVs, music so loud you couldn't hear yourself think, I think they even had one of those shuffle board tables. They charged around $10 an hour for time and beer was expensive, it was crowded and I hated it.

Another popular place was Galaxy Billiards. They were kind of the best of both worlds. It was still not up to the low class greatness of Bradleys but they ran an actual pool hall with about 30 tables.

I surely don;t blame anyone for trying to make money, but I think Bradleys and real pool halls are a dying breed, if not dead already.

I remember sweating some matches in Germany, they had padded benches, waitress and everything a real sweator could want. That's the nature of their culture though.

Just some random thoughts.

Jim
 
sjm said:
I grew up as a railbird in the 60’s and 70’s, but in the room I played, there were seats in place for would-be railbirds, meaning management expected and accepted railbirds, recognizing them as part of their establishment’s culture. As the railbirds were seated in a sectioned off area of the poolroom, they were out of harm’s way.

Times have changed. Many poolroom proprietors are doing more than ever to show respect for and protect the privacy of those paying table time. In addition, like all business owners, only paying customers are welcome on their premises. That’s bad news for the railbirds, but good news for most who frequent poolrooms.

If you want to sweat some great pool, attend Tri-State tour events (schedule at www.tristate-tour.com) in the New York City area. Finally, if, as a beginner, you understand the importance of watching good players as a means of learning the game of pool, you’re on your way to improvement.
Thank you a lot, sjm, for your reply. One reason why I like to listen to (and watch!) players like you who have had experience in previous decades is that I suspect pool culture then might have been richer. Of course, I have no way to measure that, but from accounts like yours it does look that way. I can see your point about most pool players wanting their privacy, but is that really a concern with very good players like the ones I was admittedly sweating? If I ever thought someone was uncomfortable having me watch their shots, I'd move on. I can even see myself being embarassed playing slop in front of a player who is more accomplished than I am. Though eventually I'd swallow it, and start thinking: What is *he* thinking about my table? How would he approach this shot? How does he decide on his shot-making order? What kind of angle on the second shot? And on it goes. It would have been terrifying, but also stimulating.
Again, I think an excessive concern for privacy and comfort may have led to a pool hall culture that is less vibrant and more complacent. The other day I was reading about Jersey Red, Lassiter, Boston Shorty, Cisero Murphy, New York Blackie and others all packed in 7-11 (apparently *the* New York pool hall of the 60s) where competition was fierce, and all who dared go in were forced to negotiate a scene with teeth. God, I'd love to have been there!
But anyways, I will take you up on your cue, sjm, and go take a look at some tournaments; so I really appreciate your reply. In fact, tomorrow I'll be going to Racks Billiards Lounge in Queens, to check this 9-ball event.
 
deadstroke32 said:
SO did find out who was playing ?And for how much . The man that was askin u to pay your time .Was Mr lee.nice guy but he does love that money.
I never found that who it was or what the action was on that set, but the one guy was a real fast thinker on playing position for the following shots, that much was obvious. I don't doubt Mr. Lee is a nice guy, and anyhow, he is going to be seeing more of me because I'm not so easily discouraged. Glad to know someone on this forum has been to Broadway Billiards as well. Thanks deadstroke.
 
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