Ranking System for players

Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been all over the country and played pool and every region seems to have their ranking system, reguarding nine ball, I have awalys looked at it like this, I was wondering your opinion,

Beginner/Banger: helpeless

D player: can barely hold a cue but has few fundemental skills and might run 4 balls in an inning at best.

C Player:has the idea and concept down and might run a rack if irs a stop and go, once in a blue moon.

B Player: can get out from the break and has a understanding of just about everything but cant execute everything, i also believe there are more B players than any othe class of ranking. A long way to becomming an A player.

A Player: Gets out most of the time and has no fundmental deficancys and can string to gether 3 packs etc.

Short stop: Can string together 5 packs, dosent miss often and moves very well.

Champion: speaks for itself


Efren: some where in space

what are your thoughts?
 
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Fatboy said:
i also believe there are more B players than any othe class of ranking
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I have to disagree here. The vast majority of people who play pool are D players. Of the ones that take the game more seriously, most of them are C players. One of the pool rooms in my area has a website that shows the rankings for all of the players in the league. Out of well over a hundred players more than half of them a C and D players.

Otherwise it's you have a fairly accurate understanding of the rankings. However we need to find a way to accurately judge persons handicap based on the results of their game (ie. runs, safeties, innings) rather than observation. This is something I am currently working on.
 
let me correct myself, that most of the serious players are B players, you are 100% right there are more C & D plater but I was looking at it from a serious players perspective. so that slanted my view, of the serious players most are B hows that?
 
The Sunday tournament i play in, went to a C-,C,C+,B-,B,B+,A-,A ranking system.

And instead of it being games you need to win, the person gets a spot, a C- vs a C gets the last 2balls. A c vs a B- gets the wild 8. a C vs a B+ gets the break and call 7.

But its a race to 7/5. And 80% of the tournament is full of C range players, and alot of them can run 5 balls from the break or run to thier money ball.

But the tournament is also on 7ft tables too.
 
Fatboy said:
let me correct myself, that most of the serious players are B players, you are 100% right there are more C & D plater but I was looking at it from a serious players perspective. so that slanted my view, of the serious players most are B hows that?
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I'm still not sure, but I think it all depends on where you live, so with that in mind your probably not mistaken.
 
The list you gave is WAY too vague... And the other thing with these lists, you people should specify "9-ball". Because people generally have VERY different speeds for different games.

I know people who could spot me the 7 and need weight playing 1pocket. I know people who could spot me 8-6 and need a game to 5 playing bank pool. You know?

I think we should work on an 'all-around speed' rating too :-) and also speeds for every game. Not that anyone would really use it, but I think it'd be fun to do - and then us AZ'ers could have our own secret rating system! AND WE COULD GET DECODER RINGS!!!
 
AZE said:
AND WE COULD GET DECODER RINGS!!!
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With your powers combined, I am Captain Planet.

Captain Planet he's our hero
Gonna take pollution down to zero
 
i'm down for decoder rings

i put together a 3 pack the other day but i wouldn't consider myself a B player. is there a more acurate system to rate our skill by?
 
Fatboy said:
I have been all over the country and played pool and every region seems to have their ranking system, reguarding nine ball, I have awalys looked at it like this, I was wondering your opinion,

Beginner/Banger: helpeless

D player: can barely hold a cue but has few fundemental skills and might run 4 balls in an inning at best.

C Player:has the idea and concept down and might run a rack if irs a stop and go, once in a blue moon.

B Player: can get out from the break and has a understanding of just about everything but cant execute everything, i also believe there are more B players than any othe class of ranking. A long way to becomming an A player.

A Player: Gets out most of the time and has no fundmental deficancys and can string to gether 3 packs etc.

Short stop: Can string together 5 packs, dosent miss often and moves very well.

Champion: speaks for itself


Efren: some where in space

what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I think your "D player" counts as "banger" on most people's lists, your "C player" counts as "D+" for most, your "B player" counts as "C" or "C+" for most, and your A and up are about right. The step you skipped, that I consider a "B player" is a player who knows how to control a rack, can break out clusters with control, plays safe most of the time instead of missing, but lacks the mastery of speed control and fine touch that are required to gets out as consistently as an A player. I think I'm a B player on my best day, but definitely only a C player on average.

-Andrew
 
poolplayer2093 said:
i'm down for decoder rings

i put together a 3 pack the other day but i wouldn't consider myself a B player. is there a more acurate system to rate our skill by?
Click to expand...


I think stuff like the Hopkins Q Skill thing are pretty good, but they take time and the ratings are off quite a bit. It would however be good as a tool for measuring ones improvement, or comparing skill levels between players.

One problem with any system is the fact that everyone plays with different equipment. To have accurate rating systems everyone would need to play on standardized tables. Since that is impossible, it will always be a challenge to rate accurately.
 
Andrew Manning said:
I think your "D player" counts as "banger" on most people's lists, your "C player" counts as "D+" for most, your "B player" counts as "C" or "C+" for most, and your A and up are about right. The step you skipped, that I consider a "B player" is a player who knows how to control a rack, can break out clusters with control, plays safe most of the time instead of missing, but lacks the mastery of speed control and fine touch that are required to gets out as consistently as an A player. I think I'm a B player on my best day, but definitely only a C player on average.

-Andrew
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I'm not sure, Fatboy's scale needs more levels, but it's fairly close I think. If you're running a rack even once in a blue moon you're certainly above a D+, I'd say you're a good C. And if you can "get out from the break," you're closer to a B than a C.

Phil Capelle calls "B-" "the biggest hurdle... a good player who is quite capable of running a rack of Eight Ball or Nine Ball." A "B" player runs out fairly regularly, but lacks a little consistency. (from Play Your Best Pool)
 
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AZE said:
The list you gave is WAY too vague... And the other thing with these lists, you people should specify "9-ball". Because people generally have VERY different speeds for different games.

I know people who could spot me the 7 and need weight playing 1pocket. I know people who could spot me 8-6 and need a game to 5 playing bank pool. You know?

I think we should work on an 'all-around speed' rating too :-) and also speeds for every game. Not that anyone would really use it, but I think it'd be fun to do - and then us AZ'ers could have our own secret rating system! AND WE COULD GET DECODER RINGS!!!
Click to expand...

i did specify 9 ball in the first sentance, it is vague I didnt want to break it down into D-, D, D+, C-, C, C+ etc.

I live in LA and Vegas where the level of play is higher than Sacramento, probably just because there is a larger population base. I was just speaking in general terms, thats all. Pool is difficult to handycap, i still havent seen a system that is accurate for 9-ball, one pocket is an easier game to handicap,

I was just looking a skill level rating system in its simplest possible terms from a "players" perspective, not a bangers perspective and thought it would be cool to dicuss, there really isnt a right or wrong answere.

I remember I played in a USPPA tournment against a guy rated a 17 back in 88, it dosent get much worse, he broke and ran out, i beat him hill hill, I was rated in the mid 50's at the time years later I player alot better but my point is the Reno guys were fixing the scoreing sheets to sandbag their level of play. 17? this guy shouldnt be able to chalk a cue-and gets out from the break and it wasnt a stop and go rack.
 
Fatboy said:
I have been all over the country and played pool and every region seems to have their ranking system, reguarding nine ball, I have awalys looked at it like this, I was wondering your opinion,

Beginner/Banger: helpeless

D player: can barely hold a cue but has few fundemental skills and might run 4 balls in an inning at best.

C Player:has the idea and concept down and might run a rack if irs a stop and go, once in a blue moon.

B Player: can get out from the break and has a understanding of just about everything but cant execute everything, i also believe there are more B players than any othe class of ranking. A long way to becomming an A player.

A Player: Gets out most of the time and has no fundmental deficancys and can string to gether 3 packs etc.

Short stop: Can string together 5 packs, dosent miss often and moves very well.

Champion: speaks for itself


Efren: some where in space

what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I hope that there would be another Efren ! :(
 
The best rating system I have ever heard of

The best rating system I have ever heard of is described in Chapter 18 of "Upscale Nine-Ball"
by Jack H. Koehler. It is called the Koehler Skill Rating System. I don't want to, nor can I afford
to break any copyright laws, but perhaps the permission of the publisher could be sought out to
publish the details. I'm sure it would help sell books.

Anyway, it's a little involved, and actually takes safeties into play, as well as removing any
influence from the opponent. It produces a number between 30 and 100 over time, from a social
player to a pro level. It also has an adjustment table to allow for a pretty uniform rating factoring
in the pocketing difficulty differences between "friendly" and "tough" tables.

I can't imagine trying to actually rate myself while playing at the same time, as it would
definitely affect my game. You have to really concentrate on the rating, and remember which
shots are counted and which ones aren't. I don't think I'd be able to play at my normal level if I
was trying to do all this myself simultaneously.
 
I started doing the Q-skills test the other day(thursday) and after the first two session (10 racks each) I had scored points of 78 and 76. And this is on a 9ft GC4. And I am a C player in the weekly handicap tournament.

Yet, I was fooling around with the scores to see what i would be at if i played out the next 8 sessions with a variety of scores and I ended up somewhere between the developing pro and semi-pro and possibly pro level.

Now maybe its because the handicap tournaments in my area are played on 7ft tables, and I for the most part suck at playing on 7ft tables lol.

Yet I can hold my own against the B to A- players on the 9ft Diamonds that I practice on all the time lol.

I'd say that on a 9ft table, I'm a B- player, because i have more room to move the CB around, my break is better( less clustering) I can play safe easier, and i run out alot more too.

The last time I played the ghost, on the same GC, I did back to back BNR's from the break, and a 3rd BNR when taking BIH. I still lost to the ghost, but I generally run to the 7 or 8 ball when playing the ghost on a 9ft table.

Yet I am a C player in the handicap tournament, go figure lol.
 
Wow, this comment surprised me

Wow, this comment surprised me. I was watching a Bert Kinister video, and Bert said that his
impression of a C player is someone who can break, take ball-in-hand, and run out 4 or 5
times out of 10. This was surprising to me, as my impression of a C player was much lower
than that level. Perhaps it was just that he played mostly in Chicago and the players are apparently
stronger-than-average in that area. In any case, I guess it just goes to show you how subjective
the ratings are.
 
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I think a numeric rating system versus the alphabetic system might be more accurate.

Something like Accustats uses.

Stones
 
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God....this topic could be debated endlessly. I almost think it should. Its just that the variables involved in the process of rating make it literally impossible to truly judge with accuracy how good a person is. This I think, is the reason why. Because in pool we don't go by a point system. In golf you know exactly what handicap you are. In pool I could run out (in ten ball) to the eight and 7 and 9 consistently (making me one hell of a player) and still loose. That is in rotation pool your balls don't count for you. Even in eight ball when your balls do count for you it is still an obvious disadvantage to run out 6 or 7 and get funny on the eight and miss. With that said we all need to use accu-stats (not that im pretending I know exactly how to do that) to judge where we are. The fact that we havent done that yet as a sport overall befuddles me. And is it just me or are all the things ive read on here are typically way overrating the level of play. No it isnt just me, they are. A shortstop can string together five racks? No world class players can do that (sometimes). A C player never gets out (on respectively tough equipment). A B player is good and can run out if the other guy misses, but as far as a break and run, usually not happening, unless its a throw in. And an A player can put together 2 to 3 racks at a time, on a good night, but this isnt the norm. I mean watch the U.S. Open the break alone precludes one from doing that. Sure the world class guys are running racks. But this is not the norm for an A player. I think a little psychology takes a part in all of this, we think we are better than we are, so we inflate ranking systems based off of that over inflation of our own talent in our own heads.
 
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