Ray Martin/P&B Magazine

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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i was reading the August issue of Pool & Billiard Magazine tonight at the Amish Restaurant, and came across Ray Martin's article/diagrams regarding angles in 9-Ball. i am specifically referring to Diagram #1.

the way he played it in going from the 3-Ball to the 4-Ball is going "ACROSS" the target area. i have ALWAYS been told by everyone that its much more desirable to "COME INTO" the target area since that way speed isnt quite as critical.

he hit the shot with left english to come two rails down for the 4-Ball as in Path A. seems like he could have pocketed the 3-Ball with a little low right, come off the bottom rail around Point B, and headed back towards the 4-Ball with pretty much the angle he needed to get on the 5-Ball. the diagram is posted below.

just wondering what everyone thinks here? thanks in advance to all those that aid this thread with responses in the spirit that this thread was created.

DCP

CueTable Help

 
DCP,
All valuable pool principles must be violated at times. In this case the speed control will be much easier when going forward 2 rails than drawing; and pocketing the 3 will be safer with the inside English.

Another problem is the 3's location frozen to the rail. It is an extremely good idea to avoid outside English on any frozen ball that is a diamond or more away from it's destination - pocketing percentage goes way down (which you already know if you've memorized Koehler's book on the physics of pool). While this 3 ball could be made with outside English; I don't like it at all.

Set it up; try it 10 times each way; report back to us tomorrow (or just find a pro like Ray Martin and ask him how he would play it).
 
given that layout its 50/50 for me and what mood i'm in and how fast the table is, how i'm playing, humidity, etc. one way is good as the other, move a ball an inch or two in any direction i might not be 50/50.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
... just wondering what everyone thinks here? ...
Click to expand...
I think your way is better with two wiggles. Some people are more comfortable playing a ball on the cushion with inside follow. They feel the object ball is more likely to go in that way compared with outside draw which is required for your way.

Also, you have to be sure you can clear the side pocket without a problem. If the cue ball is a little steeper, and the equipment is slippery, it might be hard to avoid the side.
 
Mr. Martin's method has almost zero probability of scratching or running into 6. Backing up provides both those options.

Making the 3 and "under-doing" the draw to avoid scratch could result in you hitting 6 ball and being forced to make long safety from which your the underdog.

Nick
 
i don't like your way at all because it becomes too touchy. especially the way the cue ball will bounce off the cushion fast instantly. following with inside is much more natural, speed control is easier, plus there is a huge target zone at which anywhere will be fine to land in.

and like somebody as said, your way doesn't go into the angle anyway. it goes across it as well.
 
While martin's method goes across the angle a little more, it's got a pretty large margin for error and the english used is more predictable. With draw + outside + OB on the rail, it's easy to undercook the draw and end up drifting towards the side pocket. I've sunk that shot with what I swear was good low left, but due to a little extra curve and a thinner hit, the CB travels damn near straight sideways without coming back towards you. You'd have to hit it pretty sporty to get it to come back to B. Also I think you're more likely to end up on the rail.
 
Ray was correct (imagine that!)

Several things come to mind:

1) It's much easier to judge speed and CB position by using 2 rails rather than 1 rail.
2) Much easier to pocket the 3 using inside, as Bob noted
3) With path "A", should he go 6" too far or too short, he still has almost perfect position on the 4 (6" for Ray is like half a table for mortals!)
4) With path "B", should you go 6" too far, you're in trouble

5) You continue to question the greatest players in the world, rather than understand their thought process. Learn from them, DCP, don't challenge their table management!

FWIW, I first played Ray in 1981, and can tell you that - over and above his being a 100% Gentleman - he was a cold, calculating player who thought out every shot with perfect strategy, and executed damn near flawlessly.

-von
 
VonRhett said:
5) You continue to question the greatest players in the world, rather than understand their thought process. Learn from them, DCP, don't challenge their table management!-von
Click to expand...

i wasnt challenging Mr. Martin. i raised a question relative to the pattern philosophy i have always heard. that coming into the target area is better than crossing the target area.

thanks everyone for the professional discussions related to this shot. this thread has been, shall we say, a welcome breath of fresh air.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i was reading the August issue of Pool & Billiard Magazine tonight at the Amish Restaurant, and came across Ray Martin's article/diagrams regarding angles in 9-Ball. i am specifically referring to Diagram #1.

the way he played it in going from the 3-Ball to the 4-Ball is going "ACROSS" the target area. i have ALWAYS been told by everyone that its much more desirable to "COME INTO" the target area since that way speed isnt quite as critical.

he hit the shot with left english to come two rails down for the 4-Ball as in Path A. seems like he could have pocketed the 3-Ball with a little low right, come off the bottom rail around Point B, and headed back towards the 4-Ball with pretty much the angle he needed to get on the 5-Ball. the diagram is posted below.

just wondering what everyone thinks here? thanks in advance to all those that aid this thread with responses in the spirit that this thread was created.

DCP
Click to expand...
In general, if the object ball is past the middle diamond, use inside. In this case, the path is indeed better using outside. But inside gives you a such a greater margin for error in the speed control department that it's a better choice to those that are proficient at using inside english. With outside, even if you cut at the right angle exactly, a little over or under speed and the cueball reacts to a completely different angle. With inside, as long as you stroke through far enough to keep the cueball on line, the angle will be the same. And if you stay on that angle there is a larger margin for error than if you draw the ball with your speed a little off and stray off your chosen angle.

unknownpro
 
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