Red Label Diamond vs Blue Label Diamond

briankenobi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey everyone. I have a quick question for everyone. If you set up a gambling match with someone and when you went to the pool room and the only 9ft tables they had were red label diamonds, would you still play the set on them? The tables would have clean balls and good cloth.


On a similar note, I know someone who is thinking of converting a Red Label into a Blue Label but it is costing around $2,500 to get the Blue Label rails. Is this a normal price for them and has anyone done the same thing?

Thanks everyone in advance for responding.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO, there is not a huge difference. They both play much shorter and much springier than a GC. If you are used to playing on Diamonds in general, then you won’t have an issue. If you are mainly a GC player, you will be in trouble.
 

Cron

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the game isn't bank, sure, the table is always unbiased.

Not to be mean but, why would you pay to go from Diamond -> Diamond rails on a 9ft.?

Diamond rubber is very questionable on 9ft. tables, so much so you can't help to think it's for lock in. When someone suggests Artemis, they are not implying Artemis is superior to all, they are implying that Artemis is the most common reference.

If you are mainly a GC player, you will be in trouble.

IMO, I'd say any other brand.

.
 
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Dan_B

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
yes, I'd still play,
the house just up the road has both, 8 of one, 2 of the other, I can't recall now which
one's are what. The 2 of one everybody says have more of a spring to them, they are
also where I've had my first and only 8 on the break in league play.

On my modified 9' nobody has made the 8 on the break yet.

I'm wondering how much of the 2500 is a safety play.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
$2,500 to get the Blue Label rails

that is incomplete info. is it just a rubber replacement or is it a new top for the table?

big- and relevant- difference.

Hey everyone. I have a quick question for everyone. If you set up a gambling match with someone and when you went to the pool room and the only 9ft tables they had were red label diamonds, would you still play the set on them? The tables would have clean balls and good cloth.


On a similar note, I know someone who is thinking of converting a Red Label into a Blue Label but it is costing around $2,500 to get the Blue Label rails. Is this a normal price for them and has anyone done the same thing?

Thanks everyone in advance for responding.
 

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At the risk of being slightly off-topic, and sounding completely ignorant, could somebody please explain the difference between the two for me?

Mucho thanks…
 

Cron

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At the risk of being slightly off-topic, and sounding completely ignorant, could somebody please explain the difference between the two for me?

Mucho thanks…

Sure, Red decreases the angle of reflection, Blue increases it. I might have that backwards, but that is it. I like to think of these rails as...

Red: 2 + 2 = 3
Blue: 2 + 2 = 5

There is a reference in how rails should play, which is called "on system", or in other words, 2 + 2 = 4. So, if you take a ball across both squares of a Diamond railed table (typically 3 or more rails), you need to skew numbers typically by +/- 1. This also applies within the same square, but you instead halve the skew (.5). Fortunately, on 9ft. Diamond railed tables, you're typically working with +/- 1. On 7ft. tables, God help you.
 
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David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sure, Red decreases the angle of reflection, Blue increases it. I might have that backwards, but that is it. I like to think of these rails as...

Red: 2 + 2 = 3
Blue: 2 + 2 = 5

There is a reference in how rails should play, which is called "on system", or in other words, 2 + 2 = 4.

Again, my ignorance. Why? Different rubber?

Is one considered better, or are they just different? How do you identify a red vs blue?

Diamonds always seem to bank short to me, so my experience may be primarily on reds...?

Thanks again!
 

Cron

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Again, my ignorance. Why? Different rubber?

Is one considered better, or are they just different? How do you identify a red vs blue?

Diamonds always seem to bank short to me, so my experience may be primarily on reds...?

Thanks again!

Honestly, the whole thing comes down to making a bar table play better and saves Diamond money.

Watch this video for how to determine any table, or in other words the difference between Red and Blue...

https://youtu.be/G4dv9ekF3FY?t=103
 

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Honestly, the whole thing comes down to making a bar table play better and saves Diamond money.

Watch this video for how to determine any table, or in other words the difference between Red and Blue...

https://youtu.be/G4dv9ekF3FY?t=103

Thanks. I understand “on system”. I meant is there a way to identify red vs blue by looking at the table, or is the only way to do so to hit a few benchmark 3-raiders?
 

MoonshineMattK

.
Silver Member
If you can't adapt from Blue to Red you should not be gambling.

Second this


Again, my ignorance. Why? Different rubber?

Is one considered better, or are they just different? How do you identify a red vs blue?

Diamonds always seem to bank short to me, so my experience may be primarily on reds...?

Thanks again!

The angle of the subrail the cushion glues to is slightly different between the red and blue.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks. I understand “on system”. I meant is there a way to identify red vs blue by looking at the table, or is the only way to do so to hit a few benchmark 3-raiders?

they have labels...red or blue, hence the use of red label/ blue label monikers.
 

Welder84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey everyone. I have a quick question for everyone. If you set up a gambling match with someone and when you went to the pool room and the only 9ft tables they had were red label diamonds, would you still play the set on them? The tables would have clean balls and good cloth.


On a similar note, I know someone who is thinking of converting a Red Label into a Blue Label but it is costing around $2,500 to get the Blue Label rails. Is this a normal price for them and has anyone done the same thing?

Thanks everyone in advance for responding.

Hi Brian,
A quick email to the experts might be your best bet. info@diamondbilliards.com
 

Cron

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...or is the only way to do so to hit a few benchmark 3-raiders?

Of course. Three Red Vs. Blue isn't that important if you're not banking a lot, but you should always benchmark and factor out the difference, then what does any rail matter? But again, one rail reflects greater than the other... that is it. Some might say one is "springier" than the other, but that is only because of the reflection (more acute reflection, less time off the rail).

A 2 rail benchmark should also be ran, both only take about 30 seconds tops...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BsOZ09Nsyg

Again though, if you don't do much but putt the ball around, you can feel safe without being too familiar with any given rail type.
 
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tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey everyone. I have a quick question for everyone. If you set up a gambling match with someone and when you went to the pool room and the only 9ft tables they had were red label diamonds, would you still play the set on them? The tables would have clean balls and good cloth.


On a similar note, I know someone who is thinking of converting a Red Label into a Blue Label but it is costing around $2,500 to get the Blue Label rails. Is this a normal price for them and has anyone done the same thing?

Thanks everyone in advance for responding.

In gambling, if I can beat somebody on a blue label table, I can still beat them on a red. I would play on either of them, not a big difference.
It would be a bigger deal going from new cloth to old. But the better player should still win.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Just replace the cushions of the red lable with Brunswick Superspeed and save a ton by not converting to blue label.
 

briankenobi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I probably should have made mention that the size of table is 9ft when comparing red vs blue.

Thank you everyone for the feedback so far.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I probably should have made mention that the size of table is 9ft when comparing red vs blue.

Thank you everyone for the feedback so far.

The Red Label had Brunswick cushions originally.
Then they went with Championship.
Then they switched to the German Artemis. But, that banked short, so they changed the subrail angle
 

Keith E.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
$2,500 to get the Blue Label rails

that is incomplete info. is it just a rubber replacement or is it a new top for the table?

big- and relevant- difference.

I was told 2-3yrs ago by the "perfect rail" man that it was ~$2000 out of pocket if you traded your Red Label top end for a Blue Label top end.

Keith
 
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