Reducing a 312

S

socalplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have 2 predator 314's that I want to re-taper to as close to a Z as possible. Predators website says if a 314 is reduced below 12.25mm the warranty is automatically void. I am not concerned with the warranty but I don't want to destroy the shaft either.
I had one shaft taken to 12.3mm and I feel it is an improvement. How much can be safely removed without causing structural problems. I would like to take it to 12mm. Would this be a safe limit?
 
Last edited:
socalplayer said:
I have 2 predator 312's that I want to re-taper to as close to a Z as possible. Predators website says if a 312 is reduced below 12.25mm the warranty is automatically void. I am not concerned with the warranty but I don't want to destroy the shaft either.
I had one shaft taken to 12.3mm and I feel it is an improvement. How much can be safely removed without causing structural problems. I would like to take it to 12mm. Would this be a safe limit?
Click to expand...

I have never heard of a Predator 312, could you post a photo of it?
 
socalplayer said:
I have 2 predator 312's that I want to re-taper to as close to a Z as possible. Predators website says if a 312 is reduced below 12.25mm the warranty is automatically void. I am not concerned with the warranty but I don't want to destroy the shaft either.
I had one shaft taken to 12.3mm and I feel it is an improvement. How much can be safely removed without causing structural problems. I would like to take it to 12mm. Would this be a safe limit?
Click to expand...

This is an interesting question, I think. As Craig points out, we're talking about the Predator 314 and Predator Z shafts. One is 12.75 mm diameter and the other is 11.75 mm. It is my understanding (till now), that both Predator shafts (and their second generation counterparts) had the same diameter hollow at the narrow end. If this is so, obviously the Z shaft is below warranty specs (of the 314), which doesn't make sense. They must have different diameter hollows, I now assume. Hopefully KJ will weigh in on this one.
 
replies to Chuckpilegis, Manwon &Shankster8

Chuckpilegis: The shafts in question were 30" partials and have custom ring work to match the custom cue so I want to keep them but only if I can achieve what I am trying to do. Which is to get them to perform as close to a Z shaft as possible without compromising the structure of the shaft.

Manwon: You got me, the shafts are of course 314"s. I edited the original post. Thanks

Shankster8: The shaft that has been reduced had a broken ferrule prior to re-tapering. So I had a wood tenon installed leaving the void in the shaft but removing the foam. He also installed a Titan ferrule and a Moori med tip then re-tapered the shaft. That's why I'm not concerned about warranties. I wasn't present when the work was done and my cue guy didn't measure the wall thickness of the shaft.
This procedure changed the characteristics of the shaft dramatically. It makes for a much better (imho) hitting cue. Stiffer, not spongy, with better feed back to my hand. It is still low deflection but not as much. Overall, I consider this an improvement but I want to go a little further if I can do it safely.
 
Well, I guess that the up-side here is that you're not concerned with a warranty because that left long ago.
("We don't need no stinkin' warranty").

Just to make a quick clarification here and considering that 'you weren't there' when the work was performed, the foam that you refer to consists of a foam disc approx. 1/16" thick and 1/4" in dia.
This disc is installed at the entrance to the hollow to prevent contaminants from entering the hollow which could result in a buzz/rattle in the shaft.
Once the foam disc is installed, the hollow is sealed.

OK, let's talk T/Ds (turn-downs).
When Predator determined the lower limit of a shaft's diameter resulting from a T/D, they did so with the greatest concern for structural integrity.
Go below their recommended lower limit and you're putting that structural integrity in jeopardy. That's where you lose the warranty.
The shaft is NOT meant to be T/D below 12.25mm, PERIOD.
When I do a T/D on a 314, which is daily, I stop at 12.3mm to give the client the benefit of a little added security with regards to their warranty. Their warranty is important to me even if they don't have an equal level of concern.

"I would like to take it to 12mm. Would this be a safe limit?" Predator says NO.
Look, as far as I'm concerned, you can do anything you want with YOUR shafts.
But trying to get them to play like a Z just doesn't make any sense to me.
If you want the play characteristics of a Z, just buy a Z. They are entirely different shafts, both in construction and in 'play'. A 314 will never play like a Z and a Z will never play like a 314.
You've already realized an increase in 'squirt' from the modification of the tenon. Further reduction of the diameter of the shaft to compensate for this increase will certainly reduce the wall-thickness of the hollow and weaken the shaft in the process.
What's disconcerting to me is that you initially had a broken/cracked ferrule and rather than send the shaft to Predator or a member of the Repair Network for replacement, which would have solved the problem and maintained your warranty, you chose to have your 'cue guy' make these modifications.
I'm sorry but I can't give you a magical fix. The damage is done.
 
Thanks KJ

Thanks for your informative answer. This is exactly what I needed to know.
As to the warranty issue and working within the "Predator Repair System" I would have done that if I wanted to have the same thing I had before. I bought the shafts knowing full well (imho) they have a soft spongy hit that I really don't care for. But at the time I was willing to put up with that for the low deflection. When the ferrule broke I took the opportunity to experiment and I am quite pleased with the outcome. Yes, it did lose some LD qualities but it is easy to adjust to. On the upside the cue has a much firmer hit and the feedback is greatly improved. Also the action seems much livelier than before. For instance, draw shots are much easier.
I just wanted to see if I could safely improve on that result.
I dare say if it weren't for people experimenting and trying different things there likely wouldn't be Predator shafts at all. Or any of the other improvements that have been made.
Anyway, Thanks again for the info. Very helpful.
 
The hollow of the 314 is approx. 5" deep and is stepped 1/2 way down.
The top half is .280/.285" ID.
The bottom half is .250" ID.

I believe the Z is slightly smaller.
 
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