Regulation pocket sizes? Why do they vary?

christopheradam

christopheradam

Christopher Adams
Silver Member
Why isn't there a regulation pocket size. The balls don't chang size, why should the pockets.

I have played on ultra tight table(2 balls don't fit in the pocket) and very loose tables(2 balls and a little play in the pocket) and it does make a big difference in my opinion. Something that has such a dramatic influence on the game should be a standard size.

Does the BCA at least have rules that set the Max size and the min size for pocket and does anyone here know what they are? And where do you start measuring the pocket, point to point, or the middle or back of the pocket?
 
Actually there is a regulation size and I'm sure someone will post it. However, many rooms have a few tables that have the pockets shimmed tighter. I play in a room that has one table with 4 shims in the pockets. Very tight. But if you practice on this table and then play on a non-shimmed table it's like throwing basketballs in garbage cans.

There are three other tables with double shims in the room I play in.

Roscoe
 
I don't really care how tight the mouth of a pocket is...care more about the cut. I hate tables that are shimmed screwy that spit out or hang balls that should go

christopheradam said:
Why isn't there a regulation pocket size. The balls don't chang size, why should the pockets.

I have played on ultra tight table(2 balls don't fit in the pocket) and very loose tables(2 balls and a little play in the pocket) and it does make a big difference in my opinion. Something that has such a dramatic influence on the game should be a standard size.

Does the BCA at least have rules that set the Max size and the min size for pocket and does anyone here know what they are? And where do you start measuring the pocket, point to point, or the middle or back of the pocket?
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, when the pocket facing is convex due to a bad shim job it will tend to spit balls out that should drop.
 
Egg McDogit said:
I don't really care how tight the mouth of a pocket is...care more about the cut. I hate tables that are shimmed screwy that spit out or hang balls that should go
Click to expand...

I can not agree more with you on that. Three things can happen when tables are shimmed. 1. The flare or opening in the pocket can change. Open too much and balls do not drop in. 2. The hole in the pocket where the balls drop can have a pushed-back effect which can turn good shots into deep hangers. 3. The material used as shims that are too lively will cause balls to bounce out.

There is no single govenring body over billiards as I see it. If there were, good standards would be put in place which includes the geometry, size and material specifications for pockets.

Shimming a table requires knowledge and skill to do it right. This is why I always liked the thought of the manufacturer extending rails with proper cuts to achieve a truer and tighter pocket. My opinion is that the Diamond Pro is an excellent example of a well manufactured table.
 
DZilla said:
Yeah, when the pocket facing is convex due to a bad shim job it will tend to spit balls out that should drop.
Click to expand...


Or even concave for that matter. Poor shim material will start to form an indentation into the middle of the pocket face that results in a 'C' shape. You now have a heal inside the pocket that will kick out good shots.
 
Roscoe said:
But if you practice on this table and then play on a non-shimmed table it's like throwing basketballs in garbage cans.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you share my feelings about basketball.

Boro Nut
 
Roscoe said:
I play in a room that has one table with 4 shims in the pockets. Very tight.

Roscoe
Click to expand...

Holy shit... never played on a four shim, though I used to practise on a triple shim on the south side. Used to beat the hell out of the owner's brother on it lol
 
marissayi said:
Holy shit... never played on a four shim, though I used to practise on a triple shim on the south side. Used to beat the hell out of the owner's brother on it lol
Click to expand...
I thought you couldn't play. :confused:
Hmmmmm.
 
marissayi said:
Holy shit... never played on a four shim, though I used to practise on a triple shim on the south side. Used to beat the hell out of the owner's brother on it lol
Click to expand...

...then after the obligatory cigarette, we'd finish off with a game of pool.

Boro Nut
 
christopheradam said:
Why isn't there a regulation pocket size. The balls don't chang size, why should the pockets.

I have played on ultra tight table(2 balls don't fit in the pocket) and very loose tables(2 balls and a little play in the pocket) and it does make a big difference in my opinion. Something that has such a dramatic influence on the game should be a standard size.

Does the BCA at least have rules that set the Max size and the min size for pocket and does anyone here know what they are? And where do you start measuring the pocket, point to point, or the middle or back of the pocket?
Click to expand...

I can understand why you feel this way, but I disagree. I would, like many, like to see a standardized set of table specifications in pro pool, but at all other levels, it makes perfect sense to allow the pocket sizes to vary.
Different skill levels merit different playing conditions.

In golf, there are tough courses and easy courses, and players can select playing conditions that they feel befits their level of skill. Even at a given course, there are different tees for different levels of players. The result of all this is that more players can enjoy the game, and the system works.
 
sjm said:
I can understand why you feel this way, but I disagree. I would, like many, like to see a standardized set of table specifications in pro pool, but at all other levels, it makes perfect sense to allow the pocket sizes to vary.
Different skill levels merit different playing conditions.

In golf, there are tough courses and easy courses, and players can select playing conditions that they feel befits their level of skill. Even at a given course, there are different tees for different levels of players. The result of all this is that more players can enjoy the game, and the system works.
Click to expand...

I posted this in the WPC pocket size thread but wanted to post it here too:

I finally went to BCA's web site to see what they have about pocket size.
http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/equip.shtml

It says that the minimum for a corner pocket is 4 7/8 " at the mouth(tip to tip where cushion changes direction) and max is 5 1/8 "

Maybe thats why we don't see ultra tight tables in tournaments, they are illegal. I realize not every tournament has to or does abide by BCA rules though.
 
christopheradam said:
I posted this in the WPC pocket size thread but wanted to post it here too:

I finally went to BCA's web site to see what they have about pocket size.
http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/equip.shtml

It says that the minimum for a corner pocket is 4 7/8 " at the mouth(tip to tip where cushion changes direction) and max is 5 1/8 "

Maybe thats why we don't see ultra tight tables in tournaments, they are illegal. I realize not every tournament has to or does abide by BCA rules though.
Click to expand...

Who set the size? BCA? If it is, that is one of many organizations. I think the individual tournaments dictate pocket size. Unless I'm wrong, the BCA has their own standards, UPA has theirs, .. The women are the only group that has a unified structure, outside of them none exists.
 
pete lafond said:
Who set the size? BCA? If it is, that is one of many organizations. I think the individual tournaments dictate pocket size. Unless I'm wrong, the BCA has their own standards, UPA has theirs, .. The women are the only group that has a unified structure, outside of them none exists.
Click to expand...

I checked Upa and WPBA web sites and I could not find any info as to whether they go by BCA rules or set their own for pocket size.
And did your read this part of my post:
"I realize not every tournament has to or does abide by BCA rules though."
Which means, yes they do probably set their own pocket size or in reality just play on whatever table is at the hosting tournament, whether it has buckets for pockets or has pockets like those tables they have set up at carnivals/fairs where only one ball barely fits in a pocket :)
 
christopheradam said:
I checked Upa and WPBA web sites and I could not find any info as to whether they go by BCA rules or set their own for pocket size.
And did your read this part of my post:
"I realize not every tournament has to or does abide by BCA rules though."
Which means, yes they do probably set their own pocket size or in reality just play on whatever table is at the hosting tournament, whether it has buckets for pockets or has pockets like those tables they have set up at carnivals/fairs where only one ball barely fits in a pocket :)
Click to expand...

I did miss your statement in your post, sorry. It is too bad though that the men are not organized with a body that oversees the BCA, UPA,... Maybe some day. Pockets are a little to big though in many of these tounaments in my opinion. The other problem which I think is the bigger factor is the newness in the felt. To bad they can not develop a felt that plays consistant throughout wear. New felt plays much to easy. I've seen balls skid off three diamond in to the corner pocket and still drop. Maybe they should develop a dressing for the felt that makes it more difficult if they are not able to develop a felt that always plays the same.
 
I think corner pockets should not allow 2 balls thru the pocket mouth but should allow 2 balls in the cut mouth....so corners at say 4 3/8" with 55 degree cut. Side pockets 1/2" larger so say 4 7/8" with 15 degree cut.
The shelf on corner at say 1 1/8" inside cut mouth and on side shelf at 1/4" , all with 1/8" rollover radius and a straight drop. As to cloth, I think a medium cloth treated with teflon protection would probably play and wear just about right . All tolerances +-1/16" and +- 1 degree.

Terry
 
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