Removing a G-10 pin

ShootingArts

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Silver Member
Seems like I have seen this, maybe even asked the question myself long ago. I can't get a search to work though. I need to remove a G-10 pin. I have the standard 3/8-10 pin in a Bocate butt. It has an Ivorine 4 collar on that butt. I put the pin in about ten years ago. Almost certain it is glued in, I can't remember the glue though. Unlikely to be superglue but after that? I didn't use wood glue or Gorilla glue, I can't remember what my glue of choice was.

The pin doesn't work with a Cynergy shaft, I suspect because the G-10 threads are cut. It will thread well past what would be the range of mismatched threads, different thread pitch, but it gets tighter and tighter until it can't be turned well before getting the faces of the butt and shaft to match.

Normally I would just apply a little heat to a metal pin. I don't think the G-10 will stand much heat or conduct it well. However, I have zero experience dealing with it. Anyone remove a G-10 pin or have other experience working with the material that might help? Breaking the G-10 and trying to drill it out seems likely, and likely to get ugly fast.

Thanks for any assistance!

Hu
 
Y'all do know you are telling me exactly what I didn't want to read don'tcha?(grin)

What I suspected though and I think that cutting it off is better than trying to remove it and breaking it, almost certainly too short to get a flat face to work from to drill.

What do I need in the way of a bit to drill G-10?

Thanks for the quick responses!

Hu
 
I know what ya mean, I was sick first time I had to remove one. It's easy use carbide drill 1/4" and make sure your tooling is sharp then bore it out.

Just cut off the over hang and go from there.

GL
 
Great advice given. But seeing you have to drill it anyway. Try a small left handed drill bit and by running the lathe in reverse. You might get lucky and break the glue bond. I don't know if you will but you might.
 
On my own cues, i'm dumb enough i might cut the pin off shortish, but enough left to grab in a collet.
Then drill 1/8" or so to the bottom, insert a twist of resistance wire hooked to a rheostat or battery, wait until it smoked a bit, jam it quick in a lever closer collet, and try twisting out the remains.....

A faint, very faint possibility might be a hot air gun on high with a metal cone/small funnel concentrating the blast into a cow-doctoring needle (not the syringe, just the threaded big bore needle) or an udder infusion needle, & see if the air with the wood insulation around it would stay hot down to the bottom or not. It might, everything connected right. Only needs to get up to a bit more than boiling.

If you made a good fitting split wooden "barrel wrench" holding on the projecting stub, The heat method could be applied and a test twist taken periodically without the inconvenience of stopping to periodically jam it into a lathe collet.

Other than that....

smt
 
Michael Webb said:
Great advice given. But seeing you have to drill it anyway. Try a small left handed drill bit and by running the lathe in reverse. You might get lucky and break the glue bond. I don't know if you will but you might.
Click to expand...

Another good idea. As you say, nothing to lose. Been trying to think of something to use as a vibrator too. Being a single man, I don't have one in the house!(grin)

I am probably letting the G-10 worry me more than I should. My general theory of "if at first you don't succeed get a bigger hammer" probably ain't the best idea here! Not comfortable working with it and the only way to get comfortable is to dive in. Think I have to order the bit from the little yellow hardware store, gives me time to cypher on other ideas too. I'll try calling the fairly local folks for a bit tomorrow or monday.

I sense anudder fellow with more co-ops nearby than machine supply outlets! I should have some cow needles on this old dairy farm if I kick around a bit. I have some decent heat guns too. Things are scattered to hell and breakfast after hurricanes got my home and shop only months apart but I think I know where some new G-10 pins are. A little experimentation is in order if I find them. Pretty sure that before this is done I am going to have to drill, bore, put in a dowel, and redrill and thread. Probably spend more time trying to get out of doing these things than going on and doing them. My shop isn't set up and I have to dig for everything.

Thanks, all good thoughts in this thread,

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Another good idea. As you say, nothing to lose. Been trying to think of something to use as a vibrator too. Being a single man, I don't have one in the house!(grin)

I am probably letting the G-10 worry me more than I should. My general theory of "if at first you don't succeed get a bigger hammer" probably ain't the best idea here! Not comfortable working with it and the only way to get comfortable is to dive in. Think I have to order the bit from the little yellow hardware store, gives me time to cypher on other ideas too. I'll try calling the fairly local folks for a bit tomorrow or monday.

I sense anudder fellow with more co-ops nearby than machine supply outlets! I should have some cow needles on this old dairy farm if I kick around a bit. I have some decent heat guns too. Things are scattered to hell and breakfast after hurricanes got my home and shop only months apart but I think I know where some new G-10 pins are. A little experimentation is in order if I find them. Pretty sure that before this is done I am going to have to drill, bore, put in a dowel, and redrill and thread. Probably spend more time trying to get out of doing these things than going on and doing them. My shop isn't set up and I have to dig for everything.

Thanks, all good thoughts in this thread,

Hu
Click to expand...
Since you're in the mood to experiment, with nothing to loose.
If I understand, it seems the thread pitch is a hair off.
Years ago I mentioned to Dieckman that it was disappointing that I couldn't use Longoni shafts in his butts.
I think Longoni is 1/2-11 and Dennis's was 1/2-10 1/2. In other words he was a 1/2 thread off. Go figure!!
He said just lightly sand the lands of the threads a bit and it will work.
Didn't try it but someday.
 
3kushn said:
Since you're in the mood to experiment, with nothing to loose.
If I understand, it seems the thread pitch is a hair off.
Years ago I mentioned to Dieckman that it was disappointing that I couldn't use Longoni shafts in his butts.
I think Longoni is 1/2-11 and Dennis's was 1/2-10 1/2. In other words he was a 1/2 thread off. Go figure!!
He said just lightly sand the lands of the threads a bit and it will work.
Didn't try it but someday.
Click to expand...

The pin has worked with many 3/8-10 shafts for years. When I was trying to find "my" taper, I put a dozen or two shafts on that butt.

The Cynergy shaft seems to have a pretty soft plastic with the threads in it. Having cut many components for industrial valves that used similar or the same plastic, I suspect that the plastic moved around a little while it was being cut. Easy to happen when trying to cut it at high speed.

I think threads per inch are fine since there doesn't seem to be an issue with metal pins with rolled threads. I believe the profile of the thread is such that it isn't quite compatible with the threads of the G-10 pin which I think were cut, not rolled. If I find those other G-10 pins I will try to thread one into the shaft and see if it is that particular pin or all G-10 pins. My pins are about ten years old, probably from Atlas, so even if it is a pin issue it might not be an issue with today's pins.

Found a solution. I am going to put it in a separate post in this thread so it isn't buried in case somebody does a search dealing with a similar problem in the future.

Hu
 
When I started rethinking things from the standpoint if worse came to worse the G-10 pin was expendable I just made a few passes around most of the threads with a chainsaw file. Lowered them a very little. My standard shaft with a brass insert still fits well and now the Cynergy shaft goes on too. It has tightened up in the past so the next question is will it come apart after a few hours play. I'll find out tonight. If not, I'll give a few more strokes with the chainsaw file. It is a small diameter file, around three-sixteenths at an eyeball.

Thanks to everyone! Discussing the issue started me thinking down new paths. My first time removing a G-10 pin is delayed at least. I am a happy camper.

Hu
 
Why not just re-tap the threads of the shafts ? Or rebore the hole if the minor is too small .
Joey~Likes it simpler ~
 
JoeyInCali said:
Why not just re-tap the threads of the shafts ? Or rebore the hole if the minor is too small .
Joey~Likes it simpler ~
Click to expand...

I am not sure I am keeping this shaft. I want to try other CF shafts. One thing about the Cynergy, it has an abrupt taper change at 5.5" from the tip. I bridge in that area often enough for it to be an annoyance.

If I was sure I was keeping the shaft, chasing those threads would have been my first move since I think that comparatively soft plastic is the primary issue. However, it should work just fine as is on a metal pin so I am not wanting to change it from as new.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
When I started rethinking things from the standpoint if worse came to worse the G-10 pin was expendable I just made a few passes around most of the threads with a chainsaw file. Lowered them a very little. My standard shaft with a brass insert still fits well and now the Cynergy shaft goes on too. It has tightened up in the past so the next question is will it come apart after a few hours play. I'll find out tonight. If not, I'll give a few more strokes with the chainsaw file. It is a small diameter file, around three-sixteenths at an eyeball.

Thanks to everyone! Discussing the issue started me thinking down new paths. My first time removing a G-10 pin is delayed at least. I am a happy camper.

Hu
Click to expand...
Without proper tools you won't know but a general rule of thumb.
with 70% Thread Engagement 3X diameter in length give you max strength.
In other words a 1" dia thread with 10 feet of thread, is no stronger than 3inches.

Once thread 1 then 2 fails, the joint is done. The rest follow in quick order.

With this application, we're not talking about Real strength. How much does it take to just pull the shaft straight out of the butt after tightened down. I doubt if any joint design allows the pin to be proofed. Stretched.

All we need IMO is the joint to come together and not loosen during play. That's not a lot to ask with this application.

I say all that without any proof what so ever with cue joints.
It comes from study of mechanical joints. Yes as just a salesmen but who avoided problems after the sale.
Never pissed in the wind with a customer.
 
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3kushn said:
Without proper tools you won't know but a general rule of thumb.
with 70% Thread Engagement 3X diameter in length give you max strength.
In other words a 1" dia thread with 10 feet of thread, is no stronger than 3inches.

Once thread 1 then 2 fails, the joint is done. The rest follow in quick order.

With this application, we're not talking about Real strength. How much does it take to just pull the shaft straight out of the butt after tightened down. I doubt if any joint design allows the pin to be proofed. Stretched.

All we need IMO is the joint to come together and not loosen during play. That's not a lot to ask with this application.

I say all that without any proof what so ever with cue joints.
It comes from study of mechanical joints. Yes as just a salesmen but who avoided problems after the sale.
Never pissed in the wind with a customer.
Click to expand...

With the threads in good condition I would say the pin is very unlikely to fail. When I had my shop set up I tended to drill holes to tap slightly under the call out. With fractions, numbers, letters, and metric drills I could usually find something a little undersized to drill with. Amazing how much stronger something is with a straight pull and just a fraction from straight will cause it to fail.

The length thing is a lot like the rule of thumb I use, can vary a good bit due to thread pitch. Doesn't seem likely to those unlike us that haven't been exposed to these things but a fine thread is much stronger than a coarse thread all other things being equal. My manual that was old when I was using it in the early seventies said seven threads gives maximum strength. I counted awhile ago, I have between eight and nine. I have far more than three times the diameter sticking out, so I should be golden by the rule of thumb you use or by mine. Also, I agree that with the main force on the pin being compression and the pin being supported by the joint faces the likelihood of pin failure is approaching zero. I suspect three or four threads would be plenty but I am not putting it to the test!(grin)

Hu
 
I think I had to re tap my cuetec 3/8-10 shaft. Was just way to tight with the modified g-10 pin I have. Works fine now without needing to replace anything.

With regard to taking out the g-10, you could drill a hole in the center of it and insert a pin that would allow you to transfer the heat all the way down. I did this exact method to add weigh to the front of my cue as an experiment. Been about a year and so far it’s holding up perfect.
1CC445DB-1AE6-4C62-AD44-F016C8DAFB81.jpeg
 
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3kushn said:
Since you're in the mood to experiment, with nothing to loose.
If I understand, it seems the thread pitch is a hair off.
Years ago I mentioned to Dieckman that it was disappointing that I couldn't use Longoni shafts in his butts.
I think Longoni is 1/2-11 and Dennis's was 1/2-10 1/2. In other words he was a 1/2 thread off. Go figure!!
He said just lightly sand the lands of the threads a bit and it will work.
Didn't try it but someday.
Click to expand...
I had the same problem.I ended up with a different carom shaft and I used a small v shaped file until it fit,not much trouble!!
 
PoolHallPaul said:
I had the same problem.I ended up with a different carom shaft and I used a small v shaped file until it fit,not much trouble!!
Click to expand...


My joint is workable now but it still takes a set or tightens up from play, not sure which. I am not breaking my cues down to put them in my case but I have to remember to back that shaft off a turn or two.

I wasn't too pleased with a very noticeable change in taper at five and a half inches from the tip when this shaft was new. Far less noticeable now and I think the shaft is a keeper. It is a lot more silver than the solid black new finish although I have only cleaned it with the pads they provided. Rarely clean it, it isn't bad at all about picking up chalk and dirt.

Hu
 
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