Reno Prize Money Cut

jay helfert said:
This is good news?

No one has received a dime yet, two months after Reno.
There is a rumor they may get one third of what they won, to be paid in three installments over who knows how long. And you have the nerve to call this good news.

Jasper, you are either on KT's payroll or just terminally stupid. All I see here, is maybe a way for KT to borrow time and stay out of court (and jail). He is offering (maybe???) to pay players one ninth of what they won now, to buy their silence.

All those who predicted a pennies on the dollar settlement, may have been right.
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Now now, Jay. If I called someone terminally stupid, I would be getting a warning from the moderator. If not banned.

Mr. Moderator? You there? (Looking up into the sky as if trying to catch the attention of God..)

Not that I disagree. I'm just saying.

The inconsistency of deleted threads and people getting temporary bans while others keep going is getting rather old.

Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
Now now, Jay. If I called someone terminally stupid, I would be getting a warning from the moderator. If not banned.

Mr. Moderator? You there? (Looking up into the sky as if trying to catch the attention of God..)

Not that I disagree. I'm just saying.

The inconsistency of deleted threads and people getting temporary bans while others keep going is getting rather old.

Russ
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Gee........Thanks Russ!
Name calling is for children in the playground.
I don't call people names just because I don't agree with them.
Yes, I do see this as good news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I respect the rights of others who disagree with me.
The fact is I do think there WILL be an IPT next year.
Most in here don't. Lets wait and see who is right.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Perhaps I lost track, but I thought you were owed more like $20K. What happened to the rest of it?
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IIRC it was about $25k that Linda and Mike are owed together. So her full share owed is $5000 and if she accepts the IPT offer she will get the amount she mentioned.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Perhaps I lost track, but I thought you were owed more like $20K. What happened to the rest of it?
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I am owed $5K from Reno and Mike is owed $7,495. My 1/3 will be $1666 ($555) and Mike's will be $2496 (1/3 = $832). Plus we were owed $1000 for referrals.

The rest of the money was the minimum of $3k promised to both of us for London, which KT promised he would make up to us, and another $3k (plus whatever Mike could have won) each minimum for the Masters.

BTW, I am getting emails from members saying they are willing to accept the deal if it means the IPT can restructure and go on.
 
jay helfert said:
This is good news?

No one has received a dime yet, two months after Reno.
There is a rumor they may get one third of what they won, to be paid in three installments over who knows how long. And you have the nerve to call this good news.

Jasper, you are either on KT's payroll or just terminally stupid. All I see here, is maybe a way for KT to borrow time and stay out of court (and jail). He is offering (maybe???) to pay players one ninth of what they won now, to buy their silence...
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I guess some people can't help being stupid or cruel! :mad:
 
so he's beginning to repay. So, he's on the level but not the same level as posters in general. I don't think kt is on the level of defeatism.
Sure seems like a fly by night operation with minimum unseen infrastructure.
But, its a modern world, that can work.
I read kt was a magician. Well he certainly was with IPT (koh, chicago). A magicians accomplishment. Be grateful for that.
Sure risky business but then pools just that anyway.
It comes down to intention. kts intention. I think he intends to come good. :cool:
 
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BlackDragon said:
so he's beginning to repay. So, he's on the level but not the same level as posters in general. I don't think kt is on the level of defeatism.
Sure seems like a fly by night operation with minimum unseen infrastructure.
But, its a modern world, that can work.
I read kt was a magician. Well he certainly was with IPT (koh, chicago). A magicians accomplishment. Be grateful for that.
Sure risky business but then pools just that anyway.
It comes down to intention. kts intention. I think he intends to come good. :cool:
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I sincerely hope you're not an IPT player. :(
 
BlackDragon said:
so he's beginning to repay. So, he's on the level but not the same level as posters in general. I don't think kt is on the level of defeatism.
Sure seems like a fly by night operation with minimum unseen infrastructure.
But, its a modern world, that can work.
I read kt was a magician. Well he certainly was with IPT (koh, chicago). A magicians accomplishment. Be grateful for that.
Sure risky business but then pools just that anyway.
It comes down to intention. kts intention. I think he intends to come good. :cool:
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I hear, if you pet a rattlesnake enough times, it'll turn into a puppy. So pet, pet, pet away at that rattlesnake and wait for the "magic". Just stay positive, keep the faith. Have hope deep in your widdle heart. Ignore the nasty fang marks -- maybe pretend they are something nice -- call them "kisses". You'll have the little tail-wagger of your dreams in no time.


(but make sure you have plenty of anti-venom on hand, y'now -- just in case)
 
Timberly...847 is, in fact, the area code for Elk Grove Villiage as well as the other suburban locations you mentioned.

Regards,
Jim
 
johnnyt...<<Is that legal to cut the prize money?>>

Nope. Breach of contract (either oral, written or implied) and possibly Promissory Fraud under certain circumstances...and what is called fraud in the inducement. A good lawyer will think of at least a half dozen additional causes of action.

Regards,
Jim
 
Timberly...With great respect, let me just say that accepting 1/3 of the Reno money is something that the players who might get that offer should SERIOUSLY consider.

In turning it down, the player would be making a LARGE bet that:

1. KT is, in fact, wealthy enough to be able to pay off any judgment that might be imposed upon him PERSONALLY.
2. Relatedly that the "corporate veil" protection he has against personal attack can be pierced which is NOT EASILY DONE.
3. That either he or the IPT don't escape into bankruptcy court.
4. That there will be any more than 1/3 left after legal fees. On that point keep in mind that if any lawyer would take this case on a contingency the fee is going to be between 30-40% PLUS actual costs so having a third left for the plaintiff might be close to a BEST CASE outcome.
5. A 2-4 year litigation period AT BEST.

I know that we would all like to see any evil doers get banged for 100% if not more...but in the American legal justice system, a bird in the hand may be worth FIVE in the bush.

Regards,
Jim
 
jimmyg...You've got it about exactly correct. Not one dime will pass to any player who does not sign a FULL release...and probably a promise to continue to play in any scheduled IPT matches until the final installment is paid.

Regards,
Jim
 
Just did the math on what my 20% is if the deal is as stated. It's not pretty.

When I talk to the player I'll advise him to keep my share....I've gotten fond of RIPPLE.

To K*&T,

In money matters related to the pool world there are two kinds of people:

TRUDEAUERS and TRUDEAUEES

There are many more TRUDEAUERS than your advisers have led you to believe.
 
av84fun said:
Timberly...847 is, in fact, the area code for Elk Grove Villiage as well as the other suburban locations you mentioned.

Regards,
Jim
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Just for info, the operator for US Cellular was able to tell me that the 439 prefix, not just the 847 area code, was from Elk Grove Village Il. I was surprised.
 
av84fun said:
Timberly...With great respect, let me just say that accepting 1/3 of the Reno money is something that the players who might get that offer should SERIOUSLY consider.

In turning it down, the player would be making a LARGE bet that:

1. KT is, in fact, wealthy enough to be able to pay off any judgment that might be imposed upon him PERSONALLY.
2. Relatedly that the "corporate veil" protection he has against personal attack can be pierced which is NOT EASILY DONE.
3. That either he or the IPT don't escape into bankruptcy court.
4. That there will be any more than 1/3 left after legal fees. On that point keep in mind that if any lawyer would take this case on a contingency the fee is going to be between 30-40% PLUS actual costs so having a third left for the plaintiff might be close to a BEST CASE outcome.
5. A 2-4 year litigation period AT BEST.

I know that we would all like to see any evil doers get banged for 100% if not more...but in the American legal justice system, a bird in the hand may be worth FIVE in the bush.

Regards,
Jim
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It is my understanding (I could be wrong but two different people have heard from two different lawyers) that because he collected money since Reno, he cannot claim bankruptcy as a way of weaseling out of paying the players.

Again, all of this is coming in too fast and I don't know enough or have enough to say some things with certainty.... this is why I'm doing my best to encourage every player out there to educate themselves and talk to a lawyer.
 
av84fun said:
jimmyg...You've got it about exactly correct. Not one dime will pass to any player who does not sign a FULL release...and probably a promise to continue to play in any scheduled IPT matches until the final installment is paid.

Regards,
Jim
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And the flip-side is if a player refuses to take the 33% and demands their full payment (assuming they are ever actually given a chance to by the IPT) the IPT could cancel their tour card and ban them from any future open or qualifying events.

IF there is a future for the IPT in 2007, even with a reduced prize fund, they may well still be paying out more for a decent top-half finish than coming first in an event like the US Open. In this case the good players with a decent chance may well take those odds. If they're already qualified it won't cost them anything to try except giving up 2/3rds of something they may never get otherwise.
 
Confusion say...

So, is this the "great gift" that the players were promised for being so patient, or does that come later?

I confuse easily and therefore lose track...
 
Timberly...<<It is my understanding (I could be wrong but two different people have heard from two different lawyers) that because he collected money since Reno, he cannot claim bankruptcy as a way of weaseling out of paying the players. >>

With all due respect to the lawyers...and allowing from errors in translation from the lawyers to the people you have spoken to...there is almost no chance that is correct.

Collected money since Reno?? What money??? From whom????

Here's the deal. If your liabilities exceed or MIGHT exceed your assets you are entitled to file for bankruptcy. Actually, there is no required minimum amout of debt but in the vast majority of Chapter 7 Cases, debts do exceed liabilities. And whether you did or didn't pay some amount of money to some particular people for some particular reason has nothing to do with it IMHO.

My company recently won a multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars judgment in a civil suit and the bad guy immediately filed for Chapter 11 which is a REORGANIZATION chapter that specifically permits the debtor to remain in business in HOPES of making good on his Plan of Reorganiztion.

I THINK what the lawyers are suggesting is that if it can be shown that the IPT acted fraudulently then the related debts cannot be discharged in a BK...not that the BK cannot be filed!

You quite correctly advise that everyone study this matter and get their own legal advice and that is GREAT advice to give. I'm just saying that AT THE VERY BEST...this is a HIGHLY complex matter and WILL NOT be resolved easily...and that ALL boda fide offers of settlement should be SERIOUSLY considered.

In fact, I am quite sure that in excess of 90% of all litigations in this country are settled before going to trial and that means that nearly EVERY plaintiff ends up with less than the full amount of their claimed damages.

Finally, please know that I appreciate and support your contributions to this debate.

Regards,
Jim
 
There will be no future events. Based on other posts I've read of yours, I assume you probably believe the same thing. Personally, I'm tired of having to act like I'm optimistic for the sake of the people who get bent out of shape when they hear the truth. The IPT is done. I honestly hope these players don't cash the checks thinking that they might somehow be "helping the tour to survive". If the players cash the checks, the only thing they'll be doing is helping KT get out of dodge owing a hell of a lot less than he does now.

Now, on the other hand, if the player cash the checks thinking, "hey, it's better than nothing", that's a different story. At least they're being honest with themselves and not being baffled by KT's bullsh!t promises of a future for the IPT.


AuntyDan said:
And the flip-side is if a player refuses to take the 33% and demands their full payment (assuming they are ever actually given a chance to by the IPT) the IPT could cancel their tour card and ban them from any future open or qualifying events.
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