respect

Solartje

Solartje

the Brunswick BUG bit me
Silver Member
hi all,

i just wanted to share something. i play from time to time on online poolgames. more specific, carom3d. and now that i have enough points to go play with the big guys online, i really got to admire some players.

i know posts about efren's shot, will be filled with coments in no time, but sometimes, these internet pro's (95% dont even play pool , or not as a sport at least) really can make some amazing positions, and clearances on HARD tables.

i play online, when im out of $ to pay for real training, to speed up runoutpatern recognision, or just for fun.

well, i say it out loud, i have GREATH respect for some of these players. i can save some of the runouts, but u need to online program to watch them. :s i could post them in wei, but i havent yet taken the time to try to learn to work with the new version. but that wasnt the point of mypost :) it was respect, and say that ive learned ALOT about some pro players on there. im starting to see magic when im planning a runout. before it was like a little flame i wanted to keep alive, now its like a huge 4th july firework.

now i just need to find a bigger appartment, find a pool table, aford it, train on it, so i can produce the magic i see sometimes :D

ill try to find one particular HARD rack, ask u all how u would clear it, and then show you how he did it. (i wont include runouts of hard racks, with impossible in real life shots. (aka draw 5 table lenghts etc :p ) transfer topspin from cb into draw on the ob. (thats funny :D ) just normal shots with that little magic.
 
Check out Virtual Pool 3 as well. Some really fine shooters who know a lot about the real game as well.
 
yeah i heared about that game too.

funnt part is, everytime i meet a greath player, id say 80% has never picked up a cue. its amazing how people can be D- levels irl, but be pro's in a computer game, AND understanding all about deflection, paterns, etc etc without ever having played. just amazing. i sugest them to pick up pool, but they are not interested... weird, some of those players, with the poolbrain THEY have, if they put in the effort they could become greath!

uve got players who played over 10k poolgames. i mean, how much knowledge will THAT give u? these guys amaze me sometimes
 
online pool

I used to play a lot of online pool and I tried all different programs. No program in my opinion was perfect, but at least it would get you seeing angles and english and such. Most of the good players on there were gamers, and like you said a lot of them had no ambition for playing for real.

When I met a few of them offline I would whoop their butts. Most of them couldn't adjust to a table, and they were used to the perfect world of online. (Online is 2D, and pool is a 3D game in real life.)

I think online pool has it's place, but don't mistake great players online to be able to transfer over to the real thing. My mom is a great online player, and couldn't figure out why I wasn't good at online when I am so good in person. I told her it's not the same thing. (And it isn't!!!!)

Yes if you want to learn some aspects about the game it is good to see it on a table like that, however it will never take the place of actually practicing on the real thing.

:cool:
 
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I have never been

what it is considered a gamer, even though I have been in computers, mainframes and PC's (My first PC was an Amiga .. remember those!) over 30 years, I find video versions of Pool lacking. My interest would much more lie in the area of developing the program instead of just playing it.
 
virtual pool 3 is far and away the best pool game. they just ened to re-release it with better graphics!
 
I started playing Pogo Pool online when I'm bored. Only trouble is I look for the lines when I play on a real table.:D Johnnyt
 
virtual pool 3

Virtual Pool 3 isn't bad if you want to spend time playing pool on a computer, but nothing replaces the real thing!!!!!
 
ofcourse the real deal is always better; but some cant afford to play for 6h/day so whats left to do? train , train and train the brain. :p

anyway, this post is not a commercial for any program or so, and i wasnt really starting a: wich program is the best topic.

most play bad irl , because they cant adapt to the table. but thats just practice. if my body could do irl what my mind thinks online id be in the ipt :D

just funny how some of them have runout-% higher then 75%. i really want to go further in this. pro's have runouts of 20%. how come the difference is so big? ofcourse u can always miss a pot. but really how often does a pro miss a shot? if he isnt running out, its because the table layout is just not working, or to hard. how come the difference is so big? it cant be explained by online 'missed shots' only.

i think these topgamers really have an amazing aptitude to analise racks.
i think the shot that most impresses me with some players, is how they open clusters with every ball they shoot, how fast they can find a easy runout pattern. they seem to recognise them ALOT faster then me. its something im hoping to learn. i think this is the main reason why they have such a high %. (and ofcourse the pocket size . they seem normal , but bigger then 4.5 anyway)

i always tend to play vs the best guys i can find, i dont care for the points or anything, i just want to learn. i actually love to play a hour of online pool before i leave for a tournament. makes me focus on reading the table more. its like a small brain warmup. then starts the pre tournament practise drills on the real tables.

what do u guys think is the main reason on there high runout% ?
Do u think some of these players , have the magic of efren (only online ofc)?
 
worriedbeef said:
virtual pool 3 is far and away the best pool game. they just ened to re-release it with better graphics!
Click to expand...

This is both correct and incorrect info;

YES, VP3 is the best single player and mutiplayer on line game going, and it was re released, but was taken over from Interplay (I believe) where it was a dead game for them where now Celeris is providing updates and patches for know problems. No better graphics. Here is the link to the updateshttp://www.celeris.com/games/vp3/patch/

I've owned every version of VP3 at one time, including the latest and greatest.
 
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Solartje said:
some of them have runout-% higher then 75%. i really want to go further in this. pro's have runouts of 20%. how come the difference is so big?
Click to expand...

First off, I'm thinking that the biggest differences are environmental and physical. When you're playing online, you don't get the real stress of the situation- you're pretty much anonymous and you can quit quickly and quietly at anytime. You don't have an audience of people watching, thinking, discussing your stance, stroke, choices, skill, or appearance. You don't have the distractions of a real pooroom.

And physically, you're only using a mouse- whatever version you've got. So you can't really choke up, jab, twist, jump up, wimpy- stroke, whatever. Your "legs, back, head, elbow, grip" are always perfectly in line when you play online pool.

Solartje said:
i think these topgamers really have an amazing aptitude to analise racks.
i think the shot that most impresses me with some players, is how they open clusters with every ball they shoot, how fast they can find a easy runout pattern... i think this is the main reason why they have such a high %. (and ofcourse the pocket size . they seem normal , but bigger then 4.5 anyway)
Click to expand...

So maybe the view helps, too- online, you're looking at the table from the ceiling- you can see all of the table, all of the time. Which helps for seeing those patterns.

I'm not talking trash- I'm very interested in the same point that you are- why the runout percentages are so high online. I even think that online pool can help you think in different ways what with the view, and that taking away the stress of the environment might help in some way, too. Taking away the physical part bothers me, but maybe it helps to build the mental.

Here's what irritates me most about online pool, though- spins work differently. My boyfriend was trying to introduce me to pogo pool, and i wanted to do a simple draw-with-outside-spin for shape. Totally bread-and-butter basic shot. When he said, "no- you can't do sidespin on pogo- it doesn't work that way," I quit. Why completely relearn english for a false environment?
 
mmm some interesting comments blah blah.

i agree with you that the anonimity (that a word?) plays a role. no teammate to yell at you, totally stressfree, etc... the top vieuw can help idd. even when u are shooting, your subconscience still sees the full table layout online.... mmmm yup, this might be an explenation why they can see things so fast.

mmm, maybe i should take more time to look at the table, then i usually do.

ps i know you are not talking trash. in fact , your post was full with interesting points of vieuw.
 
It's one thing to be able analyze racks, but it's a totally different thing to execute this stuff in real life. Will they have the hand eye co-ordination to make a smooth straight stroke? Maybe, maybe not.

It just kind of reminds me of this show on G4 tv. It pits sports gamers against real life pros. In one of the basketball episode the gamer says "well I could whoop you in EA's NBA 2006." The pro responds "why would I care about being good in a video game, when I can play in real life?"
 
The one thing that I've noticed about online pool is that there is a lack of deflection. This makes it much easier than real pool.
 
the lastest patches for my game work pritty well. the deflection is significant, and both the speed and english affect them. so i dont got a problem with that.

Cameron;

i know i know REAL POOL > ONLINE POOL :p

i hope no one thinks im thinking the contrary. and you are right. without the right stroke, etc etc, u wont be able to do what u see. i think my runout % online is about 60% in 8ball. in real life. my average is 2-3 innings / game because i usually **** up my position somewhere and dont got the experience yet, to get back in position for the next shot ASAP.

but ONLINE POOL > NO POOL if u dont got a own table and cant afford the table time or dont have a club near... my nearest club is now at +1hour trip with public transport. sometimes it can go till 1.5hour. and the table prices are over 10$/hour


mmm just got an idea, i could tape a game with a digicam and put it on youtube :D

if i had Ralf's concentration, efrens hand -eye coordination , and the brain of one of these online poolfreaks id be happy :p
 
Jesus...10 dollars an hour...that is alot..i guess i shouldnt complain at 4 dollars an hour and most of the time the waitress dont charge me the full time since i tip really good..
 
Solartje said:
the lastest patches for my game work pritty well. the deflection is significant, and both the speed and english affect them. so i dont got a problem with that.

Cameron;

i know i know REAL POOL > ONLINE POOL :p

i hope no one thinks im thinking the contrary. and you are right. without the right stroke, etc etc, u wont be able to do what u see. i think my runout % online is about 60% in 8ball. in real life. my average is 2-3 innings / game because i usually **** up my position somewhere and dont got the experience yet, to get back in position for the next shot ASAP.

but ONLINE POOL > NO POOL if u dont got a own table and cant afford the table time or dont have a club near... my nearest club is now at +1hour trip with public transport. sometimes it can go till 1.5hour. and the table prices are over 10$/hour


mmm just got an idea, i could tape a game with a digicam and put it on youtube :D

if i had Ralf's concentration, efrens hand -eye coordination , and the brain of one of these online poolfreaks id be happy :p
Click to expand...

I know you weren't thinking otherwise. This thread just reminded me of a few gamers I have met who are really good at sports games, and have deluded themselves into believing that it is just as difficult to learn a video game as it is a real sport.
 
Solartje said:
the top vieuw can help idd. even when u are shooting, your subconscience still sees the full table layout online.... mmmm yup, this might be an explenation why they can see things so fast.
Click to expand...

good point about seeing patterns quickly- hadn't thought about the speed element- online pool's on a timer, which could be totally beneficial.

makes me think, randomly at this late hour, of two ways of learning to trust yourself on a real table:

1. closing your eyes before your shoot. oldie but goodie.

2. shooting "speed pool" with a friend. As soon as the last ball stops rolling, the non- shooting player begins loudly counting the seconds to 15. The next ball MUST be shot before 15 seconds has passed, or else the incoming player has 25 seconds with ball-in-hand for the first shot, 15 for the subsequent ones.

good excercise (lots of running), and it forces you to think quickly, shoot automatically and mechanically, and plan your shape/speed control more accurately.

either method, you find yourself doing much better than expected, and you start trusting your first thoughts without agonizing or cramping up in fear.
 
hehe blah blah,

i actually use both things u described, but some time ago, i made a post about speedpool, and i got told NOT to do it. yes its fun, a friend of mine even made a 15ball clearance under 1 minut. but its against everything that should be done.

i must agree, i was shooting like a god when playing speed pool. I already have a pritty quick pace. usually only 1warmupstroke, but speedpool = full table tin cuts, perfect positions, etc all effortless. BUT
- your stance is not around the cue, but just where your feet lands = bad
- no preshotroutine = bad
- no chalking, unless u have to run around the table and u can chalk while running = bad
etc..


but the eyes closed drill i recomand to everyone!! i first started playing it, when my gf was playing with me. she just started pool and her record is a 5 ball run. so to make the game even, i had to shoot with my eyes closed, and i still kicked her boodie :p

when u shoot with your eyes close, pay GOOD atention to how your stroke feels. how your muscles are moving, wich muscle is moving, is it fluid etc? u can do this better with eyes closed.

ps i made 13 Break and runs in a row in 8ball last night :D if only i could do it in real time. but i really lack training for my eye/hand coordination. but im really starting to see the game the easy way. now im just waiting for god to offer me a pooltable for my bday so i can FINALLY train like i should instead of online games.

ps i finnaly found what my point was :p (ive got a fish memory, sorry for that)

my point is, EVERY serious player watches hours of pool on television. acustats, ipt, taped movies, etc etc.
everyone will suggest u to do so.
well i love to play pool online for hours and watch pro's play. i dont think there is any difference and (its cheaper then to buy tapes :p YES i really im broke for the moment :p) . so that was my point. i can learn as much from playing with pro's online as in watching a efren vs archer match.
 
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