If you want to respond to my thread that I mistakenly put on the for sale forum - this is the place...
Responses to my thread about APA entitlement on For Sale forum
- Thread starter Nuts4Tascarellas
- Start date
i'll bite
i take it you are not upset by losing to a lower level player due to your statement ...stuff happens. on 2nd thought i think you were a lil upset and that person going around bragging added a lil salt to the wound.
i have had a few people come up to me saying certain players went around bragging about beating me. my response is always the same...i guess beating me is something to brag about.
don't take it so personal. its human nature for people to want to share their joy in winning a match they thought they had no chance in hell of winning. let them bask in their glory and then put a real ass whipping on them the next time you face them . that is what i do. :grin-square:
i take it you are not upset by losing to a lower level player due to your statement ...stuff happens. on 2nd thought i think you were a lil upset and that person going around bragging added a lil salt to the wound.
i have had a few people come up to me saying certain players went around bragging about beating me. my response is always the same...i guess beating me is something to brag about.
don't take it so personal. its human nature for people to want to share their joy in winning a match they thought they had no chance in hell of winning. let them bask in their glory and then put a real ass whipping on them the next time you face them . that is what i do. :grin-square:
Here's the original post
"I have got to get this off my chest... I don't get the attitude of APA pool players. When I learned how to play pool - you played everyone and the best player won. You just had to keep practicing and getting until you got better. Most people would not help you much either. Now there is the internet and many other instructional sources to step up your game easily. I have been playing over 30 years.
So the only option where I live is the APA. Since there is nothing else to choose from - I play. Being the highest skill level - other teams will often throw off on you. In other words - play a 2 or three, maybe a 4 against a level 7. Sometimes they win the set. Stuff happens. One time I was trying to go 3 rails for position and knocked the 8 ball in. Now he is on the hill, and I have to win 5 games in a row. Just an example.
So sometimes they win the set. That's fine. It's team play. But my frustration is when a low skill level runs around immediately and tells every person in the room how they just kicked your a$$. And of course they are using your name. I took a guy aside the other day and explained it to him in real terms... I told him that he didn't beat me - he beat the spot. Then I told him that if he wants to tell people that he actually beat me - he has to beat me in a straight up race to 5 or a race to 7. Then I would congratulate him and tell others for him.
Sorry - rant over. Anyone else feel this way?
I mistakenly posted this in the wrong forum. If you want to reply - there is a place to do it on the main forum now. Thanks."
I agree with you, not necessarily about "the dumbing down" but the way those folks react....that's certainly dumb enough.
Pool being "dumbed down" is a whole can of worms. I think that the leagues are such a different mindset, comparing it to the way pool used to be played probably isn't fair. Cuz it isn't pool being dumbed down, it's a whole other branch being added to what went before.
Probably picking nits (no pun intended). I suppose that for you, being in Ellsworth (or here in Bangor or most anywhere that isn't a "big" city and can't support a traditional pool room) where league is really the only outlet for pool, it's gotta be frustrating. I get that. And I'm just a league guy myself.
I'm quite certain that I've met you at one time or another, between the Ellsworth, Bangor and Lincoln divisions, we all kinda run across each other eventually. Given that there aren't a huge number of 7's around, you will likely stick out. (It will be hilarious if you happen to be the one 7 there who I know pretty well...does your nephew play on your team?)
And believe me, I don't like it when the lower level guys crow about beating the higher level guys. Cuz it ain't like playing even. I am with you, 100%. The few times I beat a higher level guy, I do some sort of variation on the "I got lucky" routine. Don't get me wrong, I'll be plenty happy to have pulled it off, but that's in full knowledge that I managed to beat the spot.
I will say tho, it is kinda fun to see the real beginners, especially the ladies, who pull of a win against a much higher level opponent. Unless they are truly obnoxious, their joy is fun. And I bet you can appreciate that, too... It's the ones who act like they've done something that causes your frustration, and I get that. Fortunately, I don't think we have a huge number of those who do that around here. I'm surprised if you have a big bunch there...doesn't make the ones that do it any less annoying.
"I have got to get this off my chest... I don't get the attitude of APA pool players. When I learned how to play pool - you played everyone and the best player won. You just had to keep practicing and getting until you got better. Most people would not help you much either. Now there is the internet and many other instructional sources to step up your game easily. I have been playing over 30 years.
So the only option where I live is the APA. Since there is nothing else to choose from - I play. Being the highest skill level - other teams will often throw off on you. In other words - play a 2 or three, maybe a 4 against a level 7. Sometimes they win the set. Stuff happens. One time I was trying to go 3 rails for position and knocked the 8 ball in. Now he is on the hill, and I have to win 5 games in a row. Just an example.
So sometimes they win the set. That's fine. It's team play. But my frustration is when a low skill level runs around immediately and tells every person in the room how they just kicked your a$$. And of course they are using your name. I took a guy aside the other day and explained it to him in real terms... I told him that he didn't beat me - he beat the spot. Then I told him that if he wants to tell people that he actually beat me - he has to beat me in a straight up race to 5 or a race to 7. Then I would congratulate him and tell others for him.
Sorry - rant over. Anyone else feel this way?
I mistakenly posted this in the wrong forum. If you want to reply - there is a place to do it on the main forum now. Thanks."
I agree with you, not necessarily about "the dumbing down" but the way those folks react....that's certainly dumb enough.
Pool being "dumbed down" is a whole can of worms. I think that the leagues are such a different mindset, comparing it to the way pool used to be played probably isn't fair. Cuz it isn't pool being dumbed down, it's a whole other branch being added to what went before.
Probably picking nits (no pun intended). I suppose that for you, being in Ellsworth (or here in Bangor or most anywhere that isn't a "big" city and can't support a traditional pool room) where league is really the only outlet for pool, it's gotta be frustrating. I get that. And I'm just a league guy myself.
I'm quite certain that I've met you at one time or another, between the Ellsworth, Bangor and Lincoln divisions, we all kinda run across each other eventually. Given that there aren't a huge number of 7's around, you will likely stick out. (It will be hilarious if you happen to be the one 7 there who I know pretty well...does your nephew play on your team?)
And believe me, I don't like it when the lower level guys crow about beating the higher level guys. Cuz it ain't like playing even. I am with you, 100%. The few times I beat a higher level guy, I do some sort of variation on the "I got lucky" routine. Don't get me wrong, I'll be plenty happy to have pulled it off, but that's in full knowledge that I managed to beat the spot.
I will say tho, it is kinda fun to see the real beginners, especially the ladies, who pull of a win against a much higher level opponent. Unless they are truly obnoxious, their joy is fun. And I bet you can appreciate that, too... It's the ones who act like they've done something that causes your frustration, and I get that. Fortunately, I don't think we have a huge number of those who do that around here. I'm surprised if you have a big bunch there...doesn't make the ones that do it any less annoying.
I agree with lorider. I've seen low-skilled players happy that they won because they didn't expect to win any games at all, let alone 2 or 3 to win the match. This usually comes with a healthy dose of realism; they know that if they had been playing even it wouldn't have been close. Look at it this way, if someone needs to brag about winning a handicapped league match maybe they don't have too much else going on in their life.
Regarding the whole "APA has messed up pool" thing. It hasn't. Pool has been declining for years and years. APA gets people playing who may never otherwise pick up a cue. Some of those people will get the bug and practice and improve and others will just enjoy a night out with friends. But at least people are playing the game.
Not that I'm anything special, but I wouldn't be playing regularly, buying cues, a table, DVDs and live streams, etc. if I hadn't started playing in a league. If not for league I wouldn't be playing at all.
Regarding the whole "APA has messed up pool" thing. It hasn't. Pool has been declining for years and years. APA gets people playing who may never otherwise pick up a cue. Some of those people will get the bug and practice and improve and others will just enjoy a night out with friends. But at least people are playing the game.
Not that I'm anything special, but I wouldn't be playing regularly, buying cues, a table, DVDs and live streams, etc. if I hadn't started playing in a league. If not for league I wouldn't be playing at all.
If it wasn't for the league players I would not have a pool hall to play at. I think most people love the game but only a few are asses about it. ANd I don't mind losing but I hate beating myself
2strong4u
Banned
APA handicaps and real pool are not even the same game. Sir you are never going to get satisfaction in the league because you are beyond it. You are not a jerk for thinking this because it's just a fact. Everybody plays and everbody wins....especially APA headquarters and league ops taking 40% of the pie.
Apa
The APA is a business....... get over it.
It is a league.... do you know what a league is??
It is played with teams .... do you know what teams are?
You..... alone.... are not that important.
The APA doesn't stop you from winning..... you do.
It;s handicapped..... so in order to win you must play at or above your SL.
Stop complaining and whining........
There are a quarter of a million people that enjoy it...
It is what it is.........
With out it, more than half the pool halls in the country would not exist..........
Kim
The APA is a business....... get over it.
It is a league.... do you know what a league is??
It is played with teams .... do you know what teams are?
You..... alone.... are not that important.
The APA doesn't stop you from winning..... you do.
It;s handicapped..... so in order to win you must play at or above your SL.
Stop complaining and whining........
There are a quarter of a million people that enjoy it...
It is what it is.........
With out it, more than half the pool halls in the country would not exist..........
Kim
I don't see the problem
The only thing I would give a damn about would be the simple fact that I lost. I couldn't care less if anyone who beat me told anyone else. Everyone has bad days and everyone loses, at least occasionally.
Seems like more of an opportunity really. Nobody likes to lose, but if all the lower players now think they can beat you because the SL2 won the match, then maybe you can get them to put a wager on it.
If it bothers you that much and you dwell on it to the point where you just have to post about it on the internet, maybe the APA (or any handicapped league) isn't for you? Start up a weekly bar tournament, play all those SL2s even, and snap it off.
The only thing I would give a damn about would be the simple fact that I lost. I couldn't care less if anyone who beat me told anyone else. Everyone has bad days and everyone loses, at least occasionally.
Seems like more of an opportunity really. Nobody likes to lose, but if all the lower players now think they can beat you because the SL2 won the match, then maybe you can get them to put a wager on it.
If it bothers you that much and you dwell on it to the point where you just have to post about it on the internet, maybe the APA (or any handicapped league) isn't for you? Start up a weekly bar tournament, play all those SL2s even, and snap it off.
Kim,
Great on the subject post. Can't imagine a more accurate description of the game we both love. Well done.
Lyn
So I read that original post a few times and one thing that I have to agree with is that sometimes the lower rated player does win, it happens and it also sorta makes me cringe when the 2 or 3 acts like they just ran a kickoff back to win the Superbowl on the last play of the game, but the fact is they won now they have that right and I, as the loser, must deal with it. I don't like it anymore than you do, but I lost.
You call it attitude, but really I think it's more lack of etiquette or lack of education. I think the majority of those people don't mean to be rude, they just are. Then, to be fair, there are some that the next time you play them you'll take steps to piss them off, like you run down to the 8, the start playing safes on the 8 until they quit, that's a hard lesson, but a necessary one for an asshole like that to learn and there are times and some people that absolutely deserve it.
Along those same lines I think the attitude of the higher ranked player can be equally poor, especially in the loss. The thing I hear most often from the higher rated player is "I gave you that one". That phrase is bull and it's an excuse. The truth is you gave nothing, and the fact is you played poorly, made poor decisions and you lost because the other player made fewer mistakes. If your intention was to give it away why did you bother to even play? If someone should ever walk to the table and say at that point before the match starts, "You know, I think I'm just gonna give you this one" and walk away, then you can say you gave it away.
Let the lower rated player have his or her day and if you're gonna play pool then develop a thicker skin because these things happen. If they beat you then they earned it, but don't forget it because you're working to play them again.
As higher rated players in that league I think we bear some responsibility to teach, and not just a draw shot or the effect of throw stuff or like that, but the idiosyncrasies of the game as well. Some people have never won before and some have never lost and the truth is some don't know how to do either gracefully.
You want a better environment? Then do your best to make it better. Your best opportunity to teach is when you win and set an example, if they win allow them to celebrate because the next time the outcome will be different then you can celebrate with some class, like it should be done.
You call it attitude, but really I think it's more lack of etiquette or lack of education. I think the majority of those people don't mean to be rude, they just are. Then, to be fair, there are some that the next time you play them you'll take steps to piss them off, like you run down to the 8, the start playing safes on the 8 until they quit, that's a hard lesson, but a necessary one for an asshole like that to learn and there are times and some people that absolutely deserve it.
Along those same lines I think the attitude of the higher ranked player can be equally poor, especially in the loss. The thing I hear most often from the higher rated player is "I gave you that one". That phrase is bull and it's an excuse. The truth is you gave nothing, and the fact is you played poorly, made poor decisions and you lost because the other player made fewer mistakes. If your intention was to give it away why did you bother to even play? If someone should ever walk to the table and say at that point before the match starts, "You know, I think I'm just gonna give you this one" and walk away, then you can say you gave it away.
Let the lower rated player have his or her day and if you're gonna play pool then develop a thicker skin because these things happen. If they beat you then they earned it, but don't forget it because you're working to play them again.
As higher rated players in that league I think we bear some responsibility to teach, and not just a draw shot or the effect of throw stuff or like that, but the idiosyncrasies of the game as well. Some people have never won before and some have never lost and the truth is some don't know how to do either gracefully.
You want a better environment? Then do your best to make it better. Your best opportunity to teach is when you win and set an example, if they win allow them to celebrate because the next time the outcome will be different then you can celebrate with some class, like it should be done.
BBO,
In the APA league in Rochester, most of my opponents are THRILLED to win a game let alone a match. Yes, I take it too seriously. I consider my APA matches as a practice routine where someone shoots back at me. I've lost a few over my near six year APA membership. Evenly split between sevens and twos. As I choose not to celebrate when I win, I'm somewhat put off by the antics of my opponents should I lose. In the end, it's still just a game, not life or death. To be honest, it sure seems like it.
Lyn
In the APA league in Rochester, most of my opponents are THRILLED to win a game let alone a match. Yes, I take it too seriously. I consider my APA matches as a practice routine where someone shoots back at me. I've lost a few over my near six year APA membership. Evenly split between sevens and twos. As I choose not to celebrate when I win, I'm somewhat put off by the antics of my opponents should I lose. In the end, it's still just a game, not life or death. To be honest, it sure seems like it.
Lyn
Maybe it's a matter of your expectations being too high? For example, in this thread you are "expecting" others to go to the "For sale" forum in order to read what the hell you are even talking about (luckily for you another gracious poster copy/pasted your original complaint in this thread - something you probably should have done on your own, no?).
Sorry, just struck me as a bit arrogant and might be the basis of your issues to begin with. Just my $.02.
Sorry, just struck me as a bit arrogant and might be the basis of your issues to begin with. Just my $.02.
Banks
Banned
I remember what a big rush and surprise it was to beat a 7. I also remember the poor sportsmanship exhibited by a few i beat when i was starting out. When i lose, i congratulate them and let them enjoy it. That win may have just made their whole session. No biggie to me. You've got to keep that in mind. Being a 7 means I've probably taken this game a bit too seriously and spent much more time than most on it. I don't need to play the gamble card or anything. Good for them. Next time, though.. 
I may even buy the next person a beer.
I may even buy the next person a beer.
Fellow Homo sapien,
Who cares? I play in the APA as well and to tell you the truth, I could care less what anyone said. I start slow anyway and I enjoy the other person's comments, LOL.. Really, I do. You have been playing a lot longer than myself, but one thing I never care about is the lead. I have had guys over me 20 something balls, until I found a reason to win and caught a gear. I also have heard guys talking about this match or that one. Beating this guy or that guy, like it is some big damn deal. I guess it means a LOT to them. Well, good for them. I LOVE this game. So, to me, I don't have to gamble to enjoy it and I am one of the few that can play for hours by myself and love it. I am also the guy that doesn't really talk about matches. So what if I win, good for me? Be happy with what you are, not your last match.
Use your experience and play smart! If you can't get it together right away, no worries. Play safes! One pocket teaches great safe playing. Pick that game up and watch your safe game improve. I do get ball in hand sometimes and if you don't feel loose, what better way to get in stroke during a match.
Bottom line, just play and realize what is important- YOUR GAME...
The APA creates that nice friendly environment where everyone knows each other. Having started in 80s-90s before APA, I got better by walking up cold to the regulars in my local hall. "No, I don't want to play 9-ball. Look kid, if we're gonna play, it'll be 3-cushion. You want 9-ball, it's 5 bucks a set." The APA started, and suddenly folks could really improve with none of that scary stuff. As a 7, you're an obvious target. Furthermore, it can kind of become a sad place - since there's nobody there who can potentially beat the pants off you, and IMO that's where the thrill lies in this sport. Stinks, but given the alternative, we might have no place to play...
2strong4u
Banned
Maybe the OP would rather die of thirst than drown in a sea of mediocrity? If that's the case he should burn his APA card cause it's never going to change. I see no thrill in pounding people that can't make 3 balls for patches.
in my apa league it's the 7's who seem entitled, Ive seen a number of them refuse to shake hands when they lose a match to any lower ranked player. almost as if they're godlike and should never lose. if that's the case play in a different league, if you'r e gonna play in a league with handicaps, much like gamble with a spot own your losses.
response
In response to some of the negative comments - I am extremely polite to each and every player. I always shake hands and tell them good game. I pride myself on that aspect of my game. There's more to the story also.
They have a weekly tournament at the room I shoot out of. It is for skill level 6 and under. Sevens are not allowed to play. We convinced them to let us play for 2 weeks. The stipulation was that we had to give everyone a 9 - 2 spot! That's pretty tough action - but we were just happy to play. Then we got boycotted again. It's BS. I am not elite. I just would like to compete. We tried to have a tournament between the sevens and there aren't enough if us. It's the first time I have ever heard - you can't play because you are too good. Come on - it's not like we are pros...
In response to some of the negative comments - I am extremely polite to each and every player. I always shake hands and tell them good game. I pride myself on that aspect of my game. There's more to the story also.
They have a weekly tournament at the room I shoot out of. It is for skill level 6 and under. Sevens are not allowed to play. We convinced them to let us play for 2 weeks. The stipulation was that we had to give everyone a 9 - 2 spot! That's pretty tough action - but we were just happy to play. Then we got boycotted again. It's BS. I am not elite. I just would like to compete. We tried to have a tournament between the sevens and there aren't enough if us. It's the first time I have ever heard - you can't play because you are too good. Come on - it's not like we are pros...