Rhino MUST

[muskyed]

Did you get the 30" shaft?

Thought that's all they made, now you have me scared, I'll have to go look. Their shafts never were 30" actually, they were 29 5/8". They always advertised them as 30", but that was with the tip.
Ha, I had to go down and check, 29 13/16" to base of tip, about a 1/4" longer than my other Radial Rhino carbon. I'm going to have to mark that down on my cheat sheet for my halter monitor I'm wearing for a few days, as it probably put my heart rate up a spike ha, ha. They've been running me through a ton of tests lately, hopefully they finally make a decision Tuesday on what they are doing.

 

[j2pac]

Thought that's all they made, now you have me scared, I'll have to go look. Their shafts never were 30" actually, they were 29 5/8". They always advertised them as 30", but that was with the tip.
Ha, I had to go down and check, 29 13/16" to base of tip, about a 1/4" longer than my other Radial Rhino carbon. I'm going to have to mark that down on my cheat sheet for my halter monitor I'm wearing for a few days, as it probably put my heart rate up a spike ha, ha. They've been running me through a ton of tests lately, hopefully they finally make a decision Tuesday on what they are doing.

I believe they will make a 29" shaft by request. Hope your physical ailments get sorted.
Keep us posted.

 

[skor]

Rhino sent me a follow-up regarding construction. As i/we thought its does use a flag-wrap style construction. Said it uses multiple layers of various strength cf sheets wrapped on a mandrel. Folks if you ever have quest. to ask just msg them, they respond very quickly.

I believe that all CF shafts are made this way, you can actually see the seam along the shafts under a strong light.
This method is actually better for cue shafts as the tube is smoother.
It is also costs more to produce as it is less automated and requires professional labor.

 

[garczar]

I believe that all CF shafts are made this way, you can actually see the seam along the shafts under a strong light.
This method is actually better for cue shafts as the tube is smoother.
It is also costs more to produce as it is less automated and requires professional labor.

No, not true. Most of the higher-end shafts are filament-wound where individual strands are spun onto the mandrel under computer control. This process yields a seamless tube with a more consistent structure. I don't think anyone could tell by playing how the tube was made. Some pics of various types of fw equip: https://www.google.com/search?clien...TgNDEUQtKgLegQIFRAB&biw=1408&bih=653&dpr=1.36

 

[muskyed]

There won't be a seam showing if it is filament wound. In arrow shafts that really need a consistent spine, all better ones will be filament wound. With wrapped arrow shafts, you would need to spine test first before fletching.
Is a small difference in spine of a pool shaft important, maybe, maybe not. I just went and looked at the Rhino Must shaft I have and the 3 other Rhino shafts we have, no visible seam on any of them. I had a Jacoby 3,2 Black shaft for awhile and that had a visible seam, so obvously there are more important things involved as to just how it is all wrapped.
Also I'll go down later today and measure out the taper of the Must and regular carbon Rhino shafts, and that will be the end of what I am able to tell you all about them.

 

[garczar]

There won't be a seam showing if it is filament wound. In arrow shafts that really need a consistent spine, all better ones will be filament wound. With wrapped arrow shafts, you would need to spine test first before fletching.
Is a small difference in spine of a pool shaft important, maybe, maybe not. I just went and looked at the Rhino Must shaft I have and the 3 other Rhino shafts we have, no visible seam on any of them. I had a Jacoby 3,2 Black shaft for awhile and that had a visible seam, so obvously there are more important things involved as to just how it is all wrapped.
Also I'll go down later today and measure out the taper of the Must and regular carbon Rhino shafts, and that will be the end of what I am able to tell you all about them.

I'd bet pretty good $ that no one could tell how a cf shaft is made just by using it. Flag-wrapping is still common in smaller diameter tubes( like cues) where FW is mostly used for bigger stuff. Just my $.02 here but i think filament-wound shafts are more of a sales gimmick than anything else. Co's can push the 'this is better' campaign and charge a lot more for them. We all know that LOTS of players are complete tech suckers who will hoover-up anything they think will make them better.

 

[SeniorTom]

limited pin sizes

 

[muskyed]

Ok, my last bit of info, definitely different taper, this is all I've got.

Must shaft 12.5 mm Regular Rhino 12.5 mm
End of shaft, not on ferrule 12.48 mm 12.54 mm
2" 12.65 mm 12.52 mm
4" 12.79 mm 12.51 mm
6" 12.90 mm 12.51 mm
8" 13.10 mm 12.48 mm
10" 13.18 mm 12.48 mm
12" 13.35 mm 12.60 mm
14" 13.95 mm 12.76 mm
Edit, not sure why they didn't separate, you'll figure it out.

 

[garczar]

Ok, my last bit of info, definitely different taper, this is all I've got.

Must shaft 12.5 mm Regular Rhino 12.5 mm
End of shaft, not on ferrule 12.48 mm 12.54 mm
2" 12.65 mm 12.52 mm
4" 12.79 mm 12.51 mm
6" 12.90 mm 12.51 mm
8" 13.10 mm 12.48 mm
10" 13.18 mm 12.48 mm
12" 13.35 mm 12.60 mm
14" 13.95 mm 12.76 mm
Edit, not sure why they didn't separate, you'll figure it out.

Its still under 13.5mm at the 12" mark. Not as skinny as the standard but still no issues as far as taper growth goes. My wag is that since they lightened the front-end for lower defl. they backed it up with a little stouter build.

 

[skor]

No, not true. Most of the higher-end shafts are filament-wound where individual strands are spun onto the mandrel under computer control. This process yields a seamless tube with a more consistent structure. I don't think anyone could tell by playing how the tube was made. Some pics of various types of fw equip: https://www.google.com/search?clien...TgNDEUQtKgLegQIFRAB&biw=1408&bih=653&dpr=1.36

On all my CF shafts there is a visible seam which only means that they are all flag-wrapped.
Rhino play and jump shafts and the Raven break shaft could be considered as mid level but the Predator Revo, CueTec Cynergy and JFlowers SMO are all high end.
Which high end shafts do you refer to?

 

[Paul_#_]

In a comparison of the taper of my 10.5mm Rhino and Cynergy shafts, versus 12.5mm Rhino Must, the shafts' diameters grew in ten inches by 0.2mm (Rhino), Must (0.7mm), and Cynergy (1.8mm). The companies call the Rhino pro taper, the Must — refined pro taper, and the Cynergy hybrid conical taper.

Predator Revo, CueTec Cynergy and JFlowers SMO are all high end.
Which high end shafts do you refer to?

As far as high-end shafts, that may include Becue shafts.

 

[skor]

As far as high-end shafts, that may include Becue shafts.

Well I don't have a Becue shaft or Triple 60 and Mezz, maybe whoever here have them can check for seams.

 

[SSP]

After going the route of cheap CF shaft to start with and then getting some mid-priced shaft to end up with an expansive shaft, It would have just been a cheaper route to just go ahead and get the top brands more expansive shafts.
I have 2 Rhinos, one never been used... never again. I have a Cynergy that plays nice but the ferrule is soft and won't last long, unless you have someone in the area to fix it, pass on that as well. The SMO is nice but only comes in radial joint, pass if you need it for a different joint. That pretty much leave us with T60 and Revo. I've tried Mezz Ignite 12.2mm, it defelects more than the SMO, costs more and hard to get, was not that impressed.

You forgot Becue, take a look at their Prime II shaft, you can get 30" and 31" lengths if you want, Great company from Italy who built the world's first complete CF cue.

 

[SSP]

Folks Rhino is not re-inventing the wheel, at least not for 250bux. My $.02 on this is that their basic cf shaft is a flag-wrapped tube and the new one is filament-wound like most of the top shafts are today. 'Once set-up' its easier/faster/cheaper to make tubes like this. As far as playing? I SERIOUSLY doubt ANY player could tell by the 'hit' how the tube was made. As for the defl. reduction? Its pretty simple, they reduced front-end mass like every other maker. Most likely by removing foam ala Cynergy. They are a small co. and i'd bet pretty good they get their tubes from a supplier. Its a big step to start making your own tubes and at their prices i find that doubtful. Cuetec, Predator, Triple60/Whyte, BeCue all make their own tubes and that's one reason for their prices. That and sponsoring players/big ad campaigns/etc. It all adds to the price.

I wouldn't put Becue with any other CF shaft builder, they position the direction of the fibers in different parts of the shaft and use different bonding agents in different parts as well, they have a patented technology called the Aurora front end to reduce front end mass, great shafts and cues, their Prime II 12.0 shaft is the best shaft I have ever owned.

 

[Xdecemberguy]

First..I've had three original Rhino shafts and yes, all three have a seem going doing the length of the shaft. It's how they are made. Second I also have a Revo 11.8 and that hybrid pro/concial taper is crap and if this shaft is made like that I'm not interested. Rhino has done numerous things right and for a great price. Complete assortment of pins to use, great price, and 30 inches. I would like to try this but not if the pro taper is concial..I hate the feeling and the ideal of the shaft getting bigger as I'm stroking my shot. Make me think that I'm going to miss the aim point I have in my head.

 

[garczar]

First..I've had three original Rhino shafts and yes, all three have a seem going doing the length of the shaft. It's how they are made. Second I also have a Revo 11.8 and that hybrid pro/concial taper is crap and if this shaft is made like that I'm not interested. Rhino has done numerous things right and for a great price. Complete assortment of pins to use, great price, and 30 inches. I would like to try this but not if the pro taper is concial..I hate the feeling and the ideal of the shaft getting bigger as I'm stroking my shot. Make me think that I'm going to miss the aim point I have in my head.

1mm of growth over 13" is not even close to conical taper. That's basically the same taper Meucci used to use. Any shaft that has 1mm over 12"+ has a pro taper not conical.

 

[garczar]

On all my CF shafts there is a visible seam which only means that they are all flag-wrapped.
Rhino play and jump shafts and the Raven break shaft could be considered as mid level but the Predator Revo, CueTec Cynergy and JFlowers SMO are all high end.
Which high end shafts do you refer to?

No that's not true. Regardless of how they're made there are seams to some extent , WAY less on FW shafts. After the tubes have cured they are sanded so telling exactly the method can be tough. I know from asking their tech's directly that: Revo, Cuetec, Triple60/Whyte, Viking(made by Whyte), BeCue, Ignite and Fortis are all filament wound tubes. FW is more expensive to get set-up for but in the long run the costs are lower and consistency is better. Again, i would bet pretty good that NO player could tell by playing how the shaft was made. The prices on hi-cost shafts are as much a marketing ploy as anything else.

 

[hclopez13]

Got curious enough that I ended up ordering an 11.8mm Must while they are on sale. I reckon I will be giving my unqualified impressions on the Must soon.

Rhino makes a good cue for the money. I've been playing with mine, the Eclipse 2 Noir, quite a bit while I wait for my new Meucci Hi-Pro 1 with the 30" 11.8 Carbon Pro shaft. Only compaint I have is the extension pin; not QR and requires quite a bit of cranking to attach it, but if one is not on a shot clock it should not matter. It is still usable. I bought the Rhino to use as a backup to the Meucci for tournament play since I am retiring my older cues. I like a cue that is well priced and plays well, and Rhino checks those boxes.

Let's see if the Must shaft is an improvement over the original.

 

[skor]

Again, i would bet pretty good that NO player could tell by playing how the shaft was made.

Never said that one could by playing, just maybe by looking at them, I don't see any reason to have a seam on a filament wound tubes, Unless they also add a flag-wrap layer for some reason.
After reading a little about both methods, I doubt that there is any advantage to any of the methods that has any importance when it comes to pool cue shafts. It's all probably marketing BS to justify the price.
I've been swallowing Predator's marketing BS since the 90's but at least they have a product that actually stands behind the BS hahaha (at least when it comes to shafts)

 

[garczar]

Never said that one could by playing, just maybe by looking at them, I don't see any reason to have a seam on a filament wound tubes, Unless they also add a flag-wrap layer for some reason.
After reading a little about both methods, I doubt that there is any advantage to any of the methods that has any importance when it comes to pool cue shafts. It's all probably marketing BS to justify the price.
I've been swallowing Predator's marketing BS since the 90's but at least they have a product that actually stands behind the BS hahaha (at least when it comes to shafts)

Well bud there are seams, very slight ones, on fw tubes. as the cf threads are laid down there's going to be seams where layers overlap. sanding removes most, not all, seam traces. and yes as i've stated multiple times, either method can/do yield tubes that 'when assembled correctly' play great. assembly plays a huge role in making a good cf shaft. getting the filler correct, the joint insert, ferrule,etc all make or break the deal.