Rick Chudy/ what do you think of this design?

[cueaddicts]

I have no idea if what you are saying is true or not. But when you take a shot at someone, as you did Classiccues, don't you think it would only be fair to furnish proof of your statements? Purchase dates...invoice numbers? Come on, show proof. If you don't, what are we to think?

Charles, you are right.

If you open up the door like this, you should really have your ducks in a row and not let your emotions get the best of you. But most of us have been there at one point in time (I know I have and was wrong for it). Clearly Bill has made a mistake here.

When someone like Bill, who has been into custom cues for about a year, maybe two, takes a pot shot at another dealer who's been at it for many, many years, you have to wonder what is really going on here. There is probably more here than meets the eye.

Over time I purchased upwards of 25-30 cues from classiccues (both Joe and Mark at classiccues), and not once, have I ever been dissatisfied or refused a refund or not allowed a return on a cue. Furthermore, in every instance I was able to turn the cue for a profit or at least recoup my money if I chose to sell later. That says a lot about classicues in my book.

Bill, one question.....did you turn a profit on these cues you purchased from Mark? [I suspect we all know the real answer to this]. If so, it would probably be in your best interest to shut up and/or retract this thread before you make an a$$ of yourself.

Sean

 

[cornerstone]

Charles, you are right.

If you open up the door like this, you should really have your ducks in a row and not let your emotions get the best of you. But most of us have been there at one point in time (I know I have and was wrong for it). Clearly Bill has made a mistake here.

When someone like Bill, who has been into custom cues for about a year, maybe two, takes a pot shot at another dealer who's been at it for many, many years, you have to wonder what is really going on here. There is probably more here than meets the eye.

Over time I purchased upwards of 25-30 cues from classiccues (both Joe and Mark at classiccues), and not once, have I ever been dissatisfied or refused a refund or not allowed a return on a cue. Furthermore, in every instance I was able to turn the cue for a profit or at least recoup my money if I chose to sell later. That says a lot about classicues in my book.

Bill, one question.....did you turn a profit on these cues you purchased from Mark? [I suspect we all know the real answer to this]. If so, it would probably be in your best interest to shut up and/or retract this thread before you make an a$$ of yourself.

Sean

Auctually i sold the schick 1 1/2 year later for 5900 after i recieved the cue that is still picured on my site and recieved the at the derby city classic last year after having 1700.00 dollars of work done by bill schick and bill having it for one year.replacing the joint and pin refinished it and i added a lizard wrap and ivory buttcap!and i paid 4200 from classic cues.before i bought a richard black crown from them for 4400.00 and had richard make 2 shafts because the ones they sold me wobbled and mark told me to hit a couple racks with them and hang them up for a few days and that would take care of the problem. and i sold it to jack lee for 4400.00 after i bought the shafts! it was the crown that was on there site with the shaved snooker style butt cap!!!and that is when i decided to go into this buis!and screw me twice its nobodys falt but my own!

 

[classiccues]

The Schick and the Black

It was listed as an older Schick, played but in decent condition...

Note the cue had a delrin cap with Bill's hand engraved name and date, it also had a steel joint.

So even if it needed a refinish, it was no secret. The butt cap and the joint, obvioulsy changed to enhance the cue.

The Black was sent to Richard for the ringtailed lizard wrap, the butt cap mod and a refinish a few months before he bought it.

Joe (-- I cannot comment on any other pieces of the transaction because it was not with me.

 

[cueaddicts]

Hmmmm. A post seems to have gone missing.

 

[JimBo]

We have bought and sold more than your little ego can comprehend.

We LOL !

BUT unlike you, I don't buy from the "big" guys because the majority of them build cues in a manner I don't like, or believe in. So unlike you who is in it just for the MONEY, I happen to have a certain belief and only deal cues that fit into that way of thinking.

LOL Joe you kill me LOL LOL !

BTW why do you keep changing the subject and not answer the questions?

He must have learned this from you.

One other thing that Bill is not being truthful about.. He has NEVER done a deal with classiccues (me). He has never talked to me on the phone, via internet, or anything else regarding cues. So when he loosely uses the words YOU, YOUR or classiccues, in a manner to say that we have dealt. He is lying.

Joe

LOL In the begining of this post it was WE, now you're trying to back out of the WE LOL LOL I swear I can't get this type of entertainment anywhere.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

I have no idea if what you are saying is true or not. But when you take a shot at someone, as you did Classiccues, don't you think it would only be fair to furnish proof of your statements? Purchase dates...invoice numbers? Come on, show proof. If you don't, what are we to think?

Are you joking?? What if he did give a date and an invoice number? How is that going to help you/us?? His story is right on or Mark would have told Joe to go nuts (oh wait he is nuts) well, you get my point. This story like most others has 4 versions, Bill's, Mark's, the truth, and then the version Joe makes up to post after Mark tells him his side. In any event when the nits start attacking each other it's funny, I'm not sure what I like better them fighting each other or when they kiss each others ass.

Jim

 

[ridewiththewind]

Okay, I am feeling brave tonight, and I am donning a USN hot suit to enter this firestorm in.
First off...I am not picking on anybody here, but jeez Loiuse, ya'll got your panites in a bunch! JimBo, I just went throught this entire thread 3x...where in the hell did Joe pick on you at? He didn't, but it's no secret that you have had a hard-on for him since the RSB days, so maybe it was just a auto reflex to his posts.
It is very true that this is NOT the forum to post a for sale, however, Bill did mention that the cue was basically sold, and had the purchaser's permission to post a pic. Why most, if not all of Jeff's posts disappeared, I am not sure why. Sean, that is by far the best tightrope walking I have seen since the days of the Flying Wallendas...and I don't mean that in a bad way! I'll get to Joe in a minute.

I have had the pleasure of exchanging emails with just about every collector and/or dealer associated with AZ. All have been initially courteous. Some have not returned emails, some have been very upfront with their policies when there was a confusion, some deals have gone south. It's business; their business. I have never taken offense by any here. Some are a little more agressive with their inventory than others.
Now, I have successfully dealt with Joe. He was courteous and truthful. Answered an a$$-load of questions from me...seriously. I bet he answered no less than 1-3 emails from me daily for roughly 60 days! And this was not on some super high-end, high-dollar cue, either. Because of this, I actually sent him more than the cue price negotiated, it wasn't a lot, wish it could have been more. I felt like I was a valued customer, even if I wasn't spending 5K-10K! I read their policy, and knew I had x amount of days to contact as to whether I wished to keep the cue or send it back. It was a no brainer for me, and I contacted him the same day I received the cue, and again a couple of days later. AS a side note, he took in on trade a cue that no one else would give the time of day, and gave me most likely way more than he should have, as he took a loss on the trade. There was even a problem with my trade, of which I was totally unaware of, and instead of backing out on the deal, of which I offered him the option, he allowed me to send the cue back to the maker for them to make right, held the cue I wanted for me, and STILL gave me the originally negotiated, sight-unseen price for my trade.
This is NOT what I would deem the practices of a dishonest person!!

Because these are open public forums, I really feel we should be extra careful of throwing around words like 'dishonest', 'liar', 'crook', and 'thief'. These are very damaging words, and they are NOT just staying here between a few people, but going out net-wide. These are reputation-killing comments being thrown around here like so much confetti. We really must not be so cavalier about what we say about one another...it has a much greater impact that you may think.

If I was a newbie just coming here for the first time, and was interested in perhaps contacting one of these individuals for a cue; this thread would definitely put me off, and I would be heading for someplace like eBay to spend my hard earned cash. And leaving here with the impression that cue collectors and/or dealers just can't be trusted.

You're not just hurting one individual's business and reputation here, but the businesses and reputations of the collective.


Lisa

 

[JimBo]

Okay, I am feeling brave tonight, and I am donning a USN hot suit to enter this firestorm in.
First off...I am not picking on anybody here, but jeez Loiuse, ya'll got your panites in a bunch! JimBo, I just went throught this entire thread 3x...where in the hell did Joe pick on you at? He didn't, but it's no secret that you have had a hard-on for him since the RSB days, so maybe it was just a auto reflex to his posts.

No auto reflex and to be honest honey you have no clue at all so please don't post "your" uniformed crap in an attempt to stick up for your hero Joe. We all know you bought your skip from him, big deal. Joe has always been a friend of mine, a friend for many years.

It is very true that this is NOT the forum to post a for sale, however, Bill did mention that the cue was basically sold, and had the purchaser's permission to post a pic. Why most, if not all of Jeff's posts disappeared, I am not sure why.

This is a rule, one people seem to ignore and not many care, what's your point? I don't think it has anything to do with this thread right here.

Sean, that is by far the best tightrope walking I have seen since the days of the Flying Wallendas...and I don't mean that in a bad way! I'll get to Joe in a minute.

LOL Yeah, Sean is cracking me up here, I love how he's trying not to offend either of his make believe buddies, those guys have a lil brotherhood going and this just drove a spike right through it, how sad. Guess they won't be dreaming of their own lil side room at VF now LOL.

I have had the pleasure of exchanging emails with just about every collector and/or dealer associated with AZ.

This is bullshit, but my guess is you may even buy it yourself so I guess I should have ignored it.

All have been initially courteous. Some have not returned emails, some have been very upfront with their policies when there was a confusion, some deals have gone south. It's business; their business. I have never taken offense by any here. Some are a little more agressive with their inventory than others.
Now, I have successfully dealt with Joe.

Now on to the ass kissing part and the whole reason for your post. Unless of course you'd like to tell us about all the big dollar cues you bought from Sean and Bill, since they are the only 3 in this mess.

This is NOT what I would deem the practices of a dishonest person!!

I deleted all the ass kissing to protect the not so innocent.

Because these are open public forums, I really feel we should be extra careful of throwing around words like 'dishonest', 'liar', 'crook', and 'thief'. These are very damaging words, and they are NOT just staying here between a few people, but going out net-wide. These are reputation-killing comments being thrown around here like so much confetti. We really must not be so cavalier about what we say about one another...it has a much greater impact that you may think.


Open forums are here to share stories, nobody is going to tell you that your deal was unimportant or that what you type is a lie, so where do you get off trying to sensor others. Does it mean that just because Joe did the right thing by you that Mark (his boss) didn't do what Bill says he did? Should Bill shut up because you had a nice exchange. Listen just because some people don't have the balls to tell their own stories doesn't mean someone else shouldn't.

If I was a newbie just coming here for the first time, and was interested in perhaps contacting one of these individuals for a cue; this thread would definitely put me off, and I would be heading for someplace like eBay to spend my hard earned cash. And leaving here with the impression that cue collectors and/or dealers just can't be trusted.

If I were a newbie coming here looking to buy a cue I'd be in the for sale section where there are cues to buy. I also wouldn't buy a cue from someone without the good sense to follow the rules. I would also be happy that there were certain posts to warn me about certain people before I got ripped off. What you propose would be like if the better business bureau only had good things to say about everyone in town because bad things would turn people away from their town.


You're not just hurting one individual's business and reputation here, but the businesses and reputations of the collective.


Lisa

You started this thread clueless and ended about on the same level, you should go back and do your research about Joe and I. You should also bud out just for the fact that you have no experience or idea about anything other then your one deal. I know you feel you dealt with classiccues.com, but you dealt with Joe and he's a very honorable person, of course you'll notice that when Classiccues.com started to catch heat Joe tried very hard to distance himself from the name (LOL I really loved that). In any event thanks for sharing your good story about Joe, it's just one more in a long line of nice stories, I love Joe as much if not more then you (luv ya Joe).

Jim

 

[JimBo]

From: Wkgrassley@xxx.xxx
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:35 AM
To: jeff
Subject: (no subject)
jeff i did not think you were interested in the schick so i took a tenetive off to be picked up at the hopkins by yxxxxxxxx
for 6700.00 cause my cost into it was 5400.00 sorry i didn't know

Jeff it's in very poor taste to make a private e-mail public, the posting of private e-mails has always been tabo and coming from me that should mean something. I suggest you remove that.

Jim

 

[cueaddicts]

Jeff it's in very poor taste to make a private e-mail public, the posting of private e-mails has always been tabo and coming from me that should mean something. I suggest you remove that.

Jim

Give us all a freakin' break. There's a lot that's "in very poor taste" associated with this thread, not the least of which is your claim of being Joe's friend. What's the old saying???? "With friends like you, who needs enemies?"

Also, I feel that the info contained in Jeff's post (albeit a private email) was dead-on supporting information for my point that I tried to make earlier. Namely, that there is probably more to Bill's story and this "classiccues bashing" was probably not a good idea or even warranted given all the particulars.

This brings me to another point/question. Wonder when these kind of pot shots will cease being fun and games ???

Jimbo, there's no need for you to answer, buddy, that's a rhetorical question.

Sean

 

[ridewiththewind]

I am in no way trying to censor here. People are going to speak what they please, often without thinking. I have really made it an effort to be respectful here, without name calling. But apparently I am clueless and a liar...hmmm. Far be it from me to think that cooler heads here might prevail. With the recent nastiness and bannings, I was hoping to get people to stop and think before saying something they might later regret...silly me. The entire AZ forum is beginning to smell of the old RSB days...which is unfortunate.

I never said that Joe was my hero. I was just relating an experience to show that I felt that he was more than honest in his dealings with me. Had I had this experience with Sean, Bill, Jeff, etc...I would still be relating this story. It's a good story. Out of curiousity, what difference does it make as to the cue I purchased or, for that matter, who made it? Who cares? For the record, I had been shopping around for something different; had gone to RSB, and had read about different cuemakers. Then I went online to look at examples of each cuemaker I was interested in and their price points. I happened to fall in love with Skip's work. Joe had a cue of his that I went ga-ga over...so I contacted him about it. He didn't steer me in that direction. This whole scenario could have just as easily gone down with Sean and a Gilbert cue. I just happened to prefer Skip's designs...whoop-di-doo.

I am growing weary of all of this. Should things continue to deteriorate, as they did on RSB, then I will be divorcing myself from AZ Billiards Forums as well, and I will be letting Mike know as to why.

Lisa

 

[cueaddicts]

I am in no way trying to censor here. People are going to speak what they please, often without thinking. I have really made it an effort to be respectful here, without name calling. But apparently I am clueless and a liar...hmmm. Far be it from me to think that cooler heads here might prevail. With the recent nastiness and bannings, I was hoping to get people to stop and think before saying something they might later regret...silly me. The entire AZ forum is beginning to smell of the old RSB days...which is unfortunate.

I never said that Joe was my hero. I was just relating an experience to show that I felt that he was more than honest in his dealings with me. Had I had this experience with Sean, Bill, Jeff, etc...I would still be relating this story. It's a good story. Out of curiousity, what difference does it make as to the cue I purchased or, for that matter, who made it? Who cares? For the record, I had been shopping around for something different; had gone to RSB, and had read about different cuemakers. Then I went online to look at examples of each cuemaker I was interested in and their price points. I happened to fall in love with Skip's work. Joe had a cue of his that I went ga-ga over...so I contacted him about it. He didn't steer me in that direction. This whole scenario could have just as easily gone down with Sean and a Gilbert cue. I just happened to prefer Skip's designs...whoop-di-doo.

I am growing weary of all of this. Should things continue to deteriorate, as they did on RSB, then I will be divorcing myself from AZ Billiards Forums as well, and I will be letting Mike know as to why.

Lisa

Tap, Tap, Tap.

Lisa, you bring up good points and are not "clueless" as Jimbo says. I think you have it dead-on. I too am growing weary of this board for the same reasons.

Sean

 

[ridewiththewind]

Tap, Tap, Tap.

Lisa, you bring up good points and are not "clueless" as Jimbo says. I think you have it dead-on. I too am growing weary of this board for the same reasons.

Sean

Thanks, Sean. It truly is appreciated. Things have been relatively 'nice' around here for quite a while, and all of a sudden it appears to have gone to hell-in-a-handbasket in a hurry. I just would really hate to see what happened over in RSB to happen here as well, because is there is just so much darn info that can be had here, especially for those people who are newer to the sport and/or the forums. It is most certainly not a favorable view of our sport or those individuals who support it, IMO.

Lisa

 

[JimBo]

Give us all a freakin' break. There's a lot that's "in very poor taste" associated with this thread, not the least of which is your claim of being Joe's friend. What's the old saying???? "With friends like you, who needs enemies?"

I am and have always been Joe's friend, he has never done anything personally to me to make me feel otherwise. I know it's a hard thing to believe but I can separate something people say or do here with who they really are, I know the real Joe Van, not his internet alter ego. My problem started with Mark and will always be with Mark, Joe's blind loyalty is to be commended no matter how ill informed he may be, why should I be mad at Joe because Mark lied to him as well. I expect as much from him. Ride T 9 said I held a grudge from RSB and it was clear to see?? That's a flat out lie and Joe will confirm that. She has no idea yet jumped right in and you want me to ignore the lie?

Also, I feel that the info contained in Jeff's post (albeit a private email) was dead-on supporting information for my point that I tried to make earlier.

True or not it's just bad to post a private e-mail, I've been in many arguments much worse then this and have never resorted to posting a private e-mail, it's just not acceptable in internet forums.

Namely, that there is probably more to Bill's story and this "classiccues bashing" was probably not a good idea or even warranted given all the particulars.

Why are you now mud slinging?? I feel your best bet would be to shut up, I mean you don't seem to be involved yet your mad that you aren't ? What up wit dat?

This brings me to another point/question. Wonder when these kind of pot shots will cease being fun and games ???

I hope never, why are these pot shots? I think it's funny to see the dirt get dished, I think it's important to hear the bad along with the good, why should we have 100 post thread saying how great it was to deal with (fill in the blank) and then it's bad to talk about the bad. Sure most people have more good stories then bad, but I feel the best way to judge someone is in adversity. This is an information sharing forum, not just an ass kissing forum

Jimbo, there's no need for you to answer, buddy, that's a rhetorical question.

Sean

The reason to answer is because when I don't people take that as a sign that I am avoiding the questions put out. I feel there is no reason for you to jump in and try to defend someone, unless you have some proof that either side is lying, seems to me it's not up to you to figure out why they did what they did.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

I am in no way trying to censor here. People are going to speak what they please, often without thinking. I have really made it an effort to be respectful here, without name calling. But apparently I am clueless and a liar...hmmm. Far be it from me to think that cooler heads here might prevail. With the recent nastiness and bannings, I was hoping to get people to stop and think before saying something they might later regret...silly me. The entire AZ forum is beginning to smell of the old RSB days...which is unfortunate.

You want only nice things posted, you want people to not post their dealings with people. You don't see that as censorship? What if I said that you should have thought twice about telling us about your dealings with Joe? That sounds crazy right?? As crazy as your post sounds to me, sorry we can't share the same opinion, but that's life and if you can't deal with life I guess leaving here is the best move.

I never said that Joe was my hero. I was just relating an experience to show that I felt that he was more than honest in his dealings with me. Had I had this experience with Sean, Bill, Jeff, etc...I would still be relating this story. It's a good story.

This was obvious, do you think you need to point it out?

Out of curiousity, what difference does it make as to the cue I purchased or, for that matter, who made it? Who cares?

it matters because you came in as some seasoned vet who has dealt with all these people, the truth is you are jumping in to defend Joe with the ONE AND ONLY story you have to relate. I'm happy that your dealings with Joe went well, I also had good dealings with *JOE*, but in this thread the topic is Bill and Joe and Bill has had more bad dealings (according to him) with Joe then you've had good, so why do you feel yours should over ride his? Why should he rethink telling his story?

For the record, I had been shopping around for something different; had gone to RSB, and had read about different cuemakers. Then I went online to look at examples of each cuemaker I was interested in and their price points. I happened to fall in love with Skip's work. Joe had a cue of his that I went ga-ga over...so I contacted him about it. He didn't steer me in that direction. This whole scenario could have just as easily gone down with Sean and a Gilbert cue. I just happened to prefer Skip's designs...whoop-di-doo.

As I already said, good for you. You had 1 dealing with one person involved and it went well, I am happy for you. Now do you feel you are the authority on this matter after 1 dealing? Again why should your 1 story hold more water then Bill's? Also I may point out in dollar amount Bill's deals far out weigh yours.

I am growing weary of all of this. Should things continue to deteriorate, as they did on RSB, then I will be divorcing myself from AZ Billiards Forums as well, and I will be letting Mike know as to why.

Lisa

What a shame people don't agree with you 100% of the time, sorry it's tough for you to take, but I assume you knew going in with your flame suite comment, also why did you feel a need to mention my name with a made up lie about me and Joe in RSB. Now I should be scared cause you’re going to pull a shorty and cry to Mike cause someone disagreed with you, you may want to try CCB.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Thanks, Sean. It truly is appreciated. Things have been relatively 'nice' around here for quite a while, and all of a sudden it appears to have gone to hell-in-a-handbasket in a hurry. I just would really hate to see what happened over in RSB to happen here as well, because is there is just so much darn info that can be had here, especially for those people who are newer to the sport and/or the forums. It is most certainly not a favorable view of our sport or those individuals who support it, IMO.

Lisa

Yes we should all hold hands and sing Koombya.
And you again with an RSB reference, do you even have a clue???
FL happened to RSB nothing more, fights happen and people disagree that is the only way to learn anything, me too posts don't really help us to learn anything new. People who really want to learn enjoy debate and disagreements, I can learn more from two educated people with different point of views then I ever will with 2 idiots agreeing.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Thanks, Sean. It truly is appreciated. Things have been relatively 'nice' around here for quite a while, and all of a sudden it appears to have gone to hell-in-a-handbasket in a hurry. I just would really hate to see what happened over in RSB to happen here as well, because is there is just so much darn info that can be had here, especially for those people who are newer to the sport and/or the forums. It is most certainly not a favorable view of our sport or those individuals who support it, IMO.

Lisa

Yes we should all hold hands and sing Koombya.
And you again with an RSB reference, do you even have a clue???
FL happened to RSB nothing more, fights happen and people disagree that is the only way to learn anything, me too posts don't really help us to learn anything new. People who really want to learn enjoy debate and disagreements, I can learn more from two educated people with different point of views then I ever will with 2 idiots agreeing. Seems like what you want is to make friends and belong to some club, I'm sure when Sean pats you on the back you felt so accepted

Jim

 

[cueaddicts]

Yes we should all hold hands and sing Koombya.
And you again with an RSB reference, do you even have a clue???
FL happened to RSB nothing more, fights happen and people disagree that is the only way to learn anything, me too posts don't really help us to learn anything new. People who really want to learn enjoy debate and disagreements, I can learn more from two educated people with different point of views then I ever will with 2 idiots agreeing. Seems like what you want is to make friends and belong to some club, I'm sure when Sean pats you on the back you felt so accepted

Jim

Wow..you having a bad Monday or something?? (I know I am but it's not because of this) Think you made your point a few posts ago.

BTW, our tangents here are clouding the issue that Bill brought to the table. My comments related to this are only mentioned out of casual observation of the post. Some people lie, some people take pot shots for whatever reason, some people just post negative information, etc., etc., etc. It's sad, but it's life, and we all must deal with things like this and keep going.

 

[keepitreal]

now here is one of my favroite cues of all time ( sale Pending) tell me what you think?

Hi Bill.. been awhile no talk to. How've ya been?? Hey that is a quality piece there, thanks for showing it. I've never owned a Chudy, (I havent hit one either), but I here they are of the highest quality. (What is your take on playability??) .. Also some bros of mine who have met him, tell me he is a great guy. By the way, that JH just awesome. Wow.. thanks for making it available to me.. Think my next purchase will be DS.
Hope all well your side of town... and the very best to you and all your family.. thanks again the JH! (keep ur eyes peeled DS).

 

[JimBo]

Wow..you having a bad Monday or something?? (I know I am but it's not because of this) Think you made your point a few posts ago.

BTW, our tangents here are clouding the issue that Bill brought to the table. My comments related to this are only mentioned out of casual observation of the post. Some people lie, some people take pot shots for whatever reason, some people just post negative information, etc., etc., etc. It's sad, but it's life, and we all must deal with things like this and keep going.

LOL to tell ya the truth I have no clue where this thread even came from or what the original point was, talk about a tangent LOL. I may have to go back and reread it to gain some focus. LOL that's funny. Why am I even here?

Jim