Roll-out ( 2 fouls, ball in hand )
- Thread starter Michael Andros
- Start date
Sounds like something worth thinking about. And, unlike many who grew up playing one foul, at least you're keeping an open mind about it. That's to be commended.
And some played, next in rotation behind the head string spots. However, I grew up playing everything in rotation behind the line on a scratch goes down and you shoot the next above the string ( just like he said ). On a scratch, if the money is behind the string, it spots ( including the weight, if any given ). Again, as Gar said, the rules would vary from place to place and so, just as now, make sure you know what game you're playing before the first break.
Well, ok... I might not like him ( if I knew him, which I don't! ), but I sure do like what he got to say! :grin-square:
We played with an additional rule: If you accept the pushout shot, you accept the pusher's foul as well. So, shooting at a pushout, you are on one foul. Thus, it is not a 100% 'free shot'.
Last edited:
I believe that is precisely what someone earlier said about *any* two consecutive fouls. We never played that way, but I've heard of it many times over the years.
we always played 2 by the same man. my main argument for pushout was the ability to spot ur opponents weakness. I practiced shooting off the rail & would push to that shot. good long rail bankers would push to that shot. like in tennis if someones forehand is weaker his opponent keeps testing it.u either improve ur weakness or get used to sleepin in the car.i think the better player has advantage playin pushout. I was told by a credible source that the east coast boys came up with it cuz the southern based players were shootin their nutz off. buddy, earl,jerry brock,billy johnson etc. . just ask buddy what he thinks.
Yup... and it's already been mentioned Buddy feels one foul was the death of the spot shot and he didn't like that.
Buddy said EXACTLY what he thinks in a Billiards Digest article several years ago. But, people will whine that if Buddy took the shot he made it more often than not and they didn't like that. LOL!!
I agree. Billy Incardona, for one, does not.
Buddy made EVERY shot more often than not! :thumbup:
This isn't the only mention of it, but it just keeps sounding like an unstructured....make the rules as you go...affair. Sorry fellas. I just don't see the attraction. The South plays different the the East. Chicago does it different then Detroit. Just like bars rules.
Someone mentioned I try it. How can I just try it. If I did it one way, it would be wrong to someone else.
Here is a good way to go about it. Put on a small, local tournament (say, 20 players) with this rule set. Get a response from the players to see how they like it.
Paul Schofield would be a good host for this. He did mention how much he likes playing this way. Put on a one day event and let us know how it went.
Ok BB. I know you like to DUCK! Lol.But 9 ball was a shooting game
from inception . 1 foul adds kicking skill but takes away skills like breaking
up clusters-banking-and out playing your opponent with pushout skills.
Plus, making SPOT SHOTS! lol Garczar, look at Rikdee's post about accepting
the 1st foul by taking the push. @ fouls by the same player is very hard to play
because there are so many 'nits' that will take the push and then push to another position, thus starting a push-push-push-etc.
1 foul works for the good top players ok, but for most players, its a joke.
And, racing for your cash is terrible. FREEZE IT UP!!
Good luck
Pushout forever
ps
BB! I'm getting my eyes done this month.
When I recover, I'll play you a set for dinner.
You play 1 foul and I play pushout.
Ohh, I like outback! Lol
from inception . 1 foul adds kicking skill but takes away skills like breaking
up clusters-banking-and out playing your opponent with pushout skills.
Plus, making SPOT SHOTS! lol Garczar, look at Rikdee's post about accepting
the 1st foul by taking the push. @ fouls by the same player is very hard to play
because there are so many 'nits' that will take the push and then push to another position, thus starting a push-push-push-etc.
1 foul works for the good top players ok, but for most players, its a joke.
And, racing for your cash is terrible. FREEZE IT UP!!
Good luck
Pushout forever
ps
BB! I'm getting my eyes done this month.
When I recover, I'll play you a set for dinner.
You play 1 foul and I play pushout.
Ohh, I like outback! Lol
Ok, i get it now. We always played NO two straight pushes. The incoming player, after a push, either shot or passed. If he passed the player on one foul had to make a legal shot or it was BIH. I miss the pressure of the spot-shot. A lot of times your case $$$ rode on a d^*n spot-shot. I guess we need to have the "AZB Old-school Push-out 9ball Classic".
All those who clamor for "call shot" 9-Ball or Ten Ball wouldn't be doing that if they game was roll out or push out. That was a far more difficult way to play, with more strategy and pure shooting ability required. A lucky roll or two wasn't going to save you. The best player will win almost every time! :yeah:
Most of the time it was played like this - You could push out on any shot and you were on one foul. Your opponent had the option to shoot or pass the shot back to you. He could not shoot a push out! If you shot and fouled again, it was BIH anywhere on the table. If you made a good hit, you were now off the foul. If your opponent shot and fouled, he was on one. All balls made on a foul shot spotted back up, the lowest numbered ball(s) in front. If he scratched you got BIH behind the line. If the lowest numbered ball was on the spot you could either shoot a spot shot, play safe off the spotted ball(s) or push out yourself, since your opponent was already on one foul. Only on two fouls in a row by the same player did you get BIH anywhere on the table. A foul on the break gave your opponent BIH behind the line and you were now on one foul.
There was a ton of strategy to this game, not to mention the ability to make tough cut shots, combos and banks. The best player had a huge advantage and the weaker player rarely would luck out and win a match. In any tournament with a full field of 64 players, there would be maybe six to eight guys with a legitimate chance to win, and that's being generous. When we went to one foul BIH and no balls spotted, players started running multiple racks far more often. And no one ran more racks than Earl. He was the most dominant player of that era. If everyone played their best game, Earl was a speed above the pack. Fortunately for them, Earl did not always play his best game. He might not like the playing conditions, be it the table, the cloth, the rails, the balls, the lighting or whatever. When I heard him complaining about something prior to a match (especially against Sigel, Varner, Efren or Hall) I knew he was vulnerable.
Most of the time it was played like this - You could push out on any shot and you were on one foul. Your opponent had the option to shoot or pass the shot back to you. He could not shoot a push out! If you shot and fouled again, it was BIH anywhere on the table. If you made a good hit, you were now off the foul. If your opponent shot and fouled, he was on one. All balls made on a foul shot spotted back up, the lowest numbered ball(s) in front. If he scratched you got BIH behind the line. If the lowest numbered ball was on the spot you could either shoot a spot shot, play safe off the spotted ball(s) or push out yourself, since your opponent was already on one foul. Only on two fouls in a row by the same player did you get BIH anywhere on the table. A foul on the break gave your opponent BIH behind the line and you were now on one foul.
There was a ton of strategy to this game, not to mention the ability to make tough cut shots, combos and banks. The best player had a huge advantage and the weaker player rarely would luck out and win a match. In any tournament with a full field of 64 players, there would be maybe six to eight guys with a legitimate chance to win, and that's being generous. When we went to one foul BIH and no balls spotted, players started running multiple racks far more often. And no one ran more racks than Earl. He was the most dominant player of that era. If everyone played their best game, Earl was a speed above the pack. Fortunately for them, Earl did not always play his best game. He might not like the playing conditions, be it the table, the cloth, the rails, the balls, the lighting or whatever. When I heard him complaining about something prior to a match (especially against Sigel, Varner, Efren or Hall) I knew he was vulnerable.
Last edited:
Ok, i get it now. We always played NO two straight pushes. The incoming player, after a push, either shot or passed. If he passed the player on one foul had to make a legal shot or it was BIH. I miss the pressure of the spot-shot. A lot of times your case $$$ rode on a d^*n spot-shot. I guess we need to have the "AZB Old-school Push-out 9ball Classic".
That's the way we played, no second push out, table scratch after a push was ball in hand, not hitting the "on" ball was ball in hand. As Jay said above, lot harder game to play because you had to THINK. One foul ball in hand was not/is not the equalizer some think it is.
Ok, i get it now. We always played NO two straight pushes. The incoming player, after a push, either shot or passed. If he passed the player on one foul had to make a legal shot or it was BIH. I miss the pressure of the spot-shot. A lot of times your case $$$ rode on a d^*n spot-shot. I guess we need to have the "AZB Old-school Push-out 9ball Classic".
Man... I would seriously give up a body part to see tournaments ( not to mention matching up ) play 2 fouls again. I'd spend the entire tourney looking around for Rod Serling, though.
Ok, i get it now. We always played NO two straight pushes. The incoming player, after a push, either shot or passed. If he passed the player on one foul had to make a legal shot or it was BIH. I miss the pressure of the spot-shot. A lot of times your case $$$ rode on a d^*n spot-shot. I guess we need to have the "AZB Old-school Push-out 9ball Classic".
Or the "U.S. Alzhiemer's Open". Room owners would be scrambling to host it. Can you imagine how many jam-up cues would be left behind after the tourney? And no one would even remember having a cue, let alone that they lost it or where... Sweet.
What Jay said...