shortshooter
Registered
TheOne said:
There you go craig, you actually said what I have been saying.
"The current top snooker players"
Ronnie O'Sullivan to play pool this year
- Thread starter zed9
- Start date
There you go craig, you actually said what I have been saying.
"The current top snooker players"
pro9dg said:
Hey Doug (hope youre well), thats great, but if you want my advice lock him in a room with the likes of Mick Hill and Darren Appleton etc.. He needs top 8 ball advice as these guys have done well in the US masters comps in the US with little preperation, it will be different rules but they know 8 ball inside out.
PS
The point Im mainly trying to make is that a pool player such as Archer has no chance at snooker. I think Ronnie will find it very difficult to do well in this event but nothing he does would suprise me! Fingers crossed, its funny after listening to his rant after losing in the worlds last year maybe pool is exactly what he needs? Despite some of the defensive posts on this forum from our American cousins I'm sure they would Ronnie once they see him play - what a talent!
Also considering Ronnie couldn't be bothered to travel to China for a measly 50,000 first prixe earlier this year this is good news. The fact that he is willing to travel to Dubai and Florida for pool given his dislike to travel sounds promising. I hope he doesn't give up if he doesn't make a great impact at the start
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leechenman
Registered
Yes Dougie the kid is back stronger and wiser than before.
Hope you are well..
Lee
Let the IPT begin!
Hope you are well..
Lee
Let the IPT begin!
TheOne said:
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Ross McInnes, a Scottish 8 Ball legend? (sincerely) made the last 16 of this event last year and is in the field again this year. So I am sure that he will be on hand to offer Ronnie a few pearls of wisdom.
leechenman
Registered
I am sure Ross will...
Are you going to Dubai DG?
Are you going to Dubai DG?
Hi Craig,TheOne said:
You're putting up some good points in defense of the superiority of snooker players. I'll add this:
The reason snooker players are so advanced is due to the sport having had huge exposure over the last 30 years and very attractive salaries. This has seen a rapid increase in the number of great players and the good ones get better as they learn from new geniuses such as Higgins, White, Davis, Hendry and O'Sullivan.
Pool now is probably where snooker was 20 years ago in terms of revenues and skill depth.
Back then, Steve Davis dominated the game and was known as a break making robot. He revolutionized the ease with which cetury breaks were made.
Yet, by today's standards he was mediocre in his break making. Most players in the top100, and many outside the top100 make century breaks with more regularity than Steve did at his best.
On the other hand, there is something to be said for winners in any sport. They are often mentally tougher, and that helps them to focus when they need to and get done what needs to be got done to win. This mental superiority could stand some pool players in good stead if they took up snooker seriously. But they face a great depth of players with amazing accuracy and years of 6-8 hour practice sessions behind them.
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You asked about Johl in the match against Johnny Archer. It was a USD8,000 difference between winner and loser. Johl got USD16K for the win and narrowly went down to Neils Feijin to enter the semis. Neils lost to Efren in the final.
Johl pictured in the World Masters I think.
Note: Johl started as an English 8 ball player when he was young. He won some big events at age 12 and 13 and then got more into snooker. He made the semis of the World U/21 one year.
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Fred Agnir said:
Okay. 8ball requires:
- Pocketing
- Positioning
- Strategy
All of which the snooker pros can do at an unbelievable level on tougher equipment.
pinkisntwell said:
That means that snooker players should win any pool tournament they enter. Unfortunately, that's not reality.
Steve Davis has the most perfect, straightest stroke I have EVER seen. I don't know why he misses shots on a pool table, or any table for that matter, but he does, and he is never a threat to win a major pool tournament, nor is any other snooker player.
You guys think that snooker players are so superior to pool players, why don't you get your best snooker player and have him practice 9-ball for a few months. The game doesn't take that long to learn. Then set up a match between him and Efren playing 9-ball with no spot for a large sum, and put all your money on the snooker player. I highly doubt any of you would do that. Actually, I guarantee none of you would do that.
LastTwo said:
Well, you can go back a few pages to see the post where TheOne is listing the "failed" snooker players that are doing well and winning tournaments in pool. So your point is pretty moot.
pinkisntwell said:
Tony Drago is a pool player now, he took up 9-ball a few years ago. The problem with you guys is that you are acting like snooker players are actually a threat to win a 9-ball event. That is simply not true, at all. Drago has done well in tournaments with easy draws. Sure he has taken down a few big names here and there, but he's got no chance against any of the top players in an extended match.
You guys are acting like snooker players that are switching to pool are far superior to pool players, and that they should be snapping off pool tournaments left and right. That simply isn't true either. You might have one or two here and there that place high, but that's about all you're going to get.
And Craig AKA TheOne, I'm surprised you don't have much respect for the top pool players. No offense intended, but I really hope you don't think that you are on the same level as them. Until some snooker players start dominating pool tournaments, you should show a little more humility, because none of you have any proof to back up your claims.
LastTwo said:
Apart from few Matchroom events, he also plays Euro tour when he has time, i.e. no conflicts with snooker events. So, he still puts snooker ahead of pool.
Easy draws? At Euro tour events? WPC? No such thing as an easy draw. Every single player is a threat to run many racks, especially at later stages. Sorry, no 3 ball runners there...
Extended matches? In a race to 100 he couldn't beat top guys like Immonen, Feijen, Souquet...etc, nobody was implying that. But...no tournament will ever have races that long. Even WPC final race to 17 is not especially long.
If he faced top pool player in a race to let's say very common 11 racks, he has a pretty good chance. It may be less than 50%, maybe even as low as 20%, but if he starts to run racks and gets control of the table, then it doesn't matter who is in the chair. This happens in 9ball all the time. It's the nature of the game.
He did get one final and one last 16 results at Euro tour this year I think. So, he definitely has some decent results at tournaments where he wasn't invited or had any priviledges. I'd say he is a threat to win 9ball event.
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
TheOne said:
This is the second or third time you've said this and I don't know how far it has to go before I call you a liar. Do you truly believe I know nothing of snooker? Do you really believe that I've never seen professional snooker players? Do you really believe I haven't talked one on one with Allison and Karen to get their point of view (do you know why I bring this up)?
Why do you want to let you "mates" believe that we know little? Do you even understand what the argument is? Where did you ever think that I was insulting snooker players??? Where in the world do you think I am underappreciating the skills of the snooker players? I believe that the top snooker playes are some of the best cueists in the world. But, I'm not so arrogant to not include the top 3C players and the top pool players. It's that simple. I"ve been consistent in this.
It has been and continues to be that the pool players are being belittled and underappreciated. I have pointed over and over to this Darryl Peach interview that seems to have silenced most of your supporters(Efren does not play a lot of snooker. When he won the Asian games, he said he had never played the game before), but the same interview doesn't seem to silence others, others who I don't believe have ever seen proof that any pool player has ever competed in any way against a top snooker player. Now that it's presented, a whole bag of excuses come out, just like if you lost to a player that you think you shouldn't have.
Snooker posters have posted a half a dozen "reasons," why this particular occurence "doesn't count" yet each reason is contradicted by themselves in previous or continuing debates. Doesn't that sound a bit weenie to you, to have to come up with excuses as to why it didn't count? The pockets are bigger, so it wasn't really snooker. They were only playing for 100 quid, so it doesn't really count. Yet, the same people have said, "the snooker players are able to adapt to the easier tables." If the interview hadn't mentioned the money, I'm sure we'd hear "they weren't playing for anything, so it didn't count." Now we hear the money wasn't significant. If the money wasn't significant, why did Darryl mention it at all? Can Darryl tell us the overall feeling of the "match." What would compel one of the snooker players to play for another 100 if Efren already won against another player. Surely he was trying to beat Efren. You can't tell me he wasn't trying! How does that make sense?
Why didn't Jimmy or Ronnie run centuries? If the "snooker players can adapt easier" premise holds true, why was Efren able to adapt to a "non-proper" snooker table quicker and easier than a snooker player??? Doesn't this at least say that the premise questionable???
Fred
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
Colin Colenso said:
LOL. Unfortunately, in terms of revenue, pool is still where pool was 30 years ago. Maybe 40 years ago.
This is either where pool turns a corner, or where pool falls off the cliff.
Fred
predator said:
There are some strong players on the Eurotour, but I am talking about tournaments with a full field of the worlds best, from all over. Yes he did great in the 2003 WPC, but if you have to opportunity to see what players he drew, most of them were 2nd and 3rd tier players, with the exception of one or two. He was in dead punch that tournament and playing on massive pockets, any shortstop in dead punch with a little tournament seasoning could have gotten where he did. I'm not taking anything away from Tony, because he is a great player, but he is considered a 2nd tier pro. He is nowhere near the level of the top players.
Fred Agnir said:
Fred I think you're forgetting that Efren sucks at potting, and so do all the other top pool players, like Sigel and Strickland. I mean none of those three can make a ball. I mean snooker is just so tough that even if Efren practiced it for 2 years he still probably couldn't run 3 balls on a snooker table. Snooker players are like gods. No snooker player has missed a ball since 1963, and when that happened, it was because someone hit him over the head with a bottle of ale when he was in mid stroke. All hail the snooker players, the immortal gods of cuesports
Shame they're boring bastards though! Right, LastTwo? LOL 
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
pinkisntwell said:
Good list.
Pocketing:
no question about it. However, pattern play in 8-ball dictate much heavier spins and speeds. This was Karen and Juli's biggest issue with the transition, as it was the biggest issue with the tapes I have of snooker players attempting to play pool. Their shotmaking went considerably down the tube when attempting to use the necessary power shots. I believe someone on this thread already mentioned Ronnie's shotmaking downturn in the 90's when he attempted to play pool (he wasn't yet used to playing pool).
Position play:
I'm sorry, but the position play in 8-ball shouldn't even compared to 14.1, let alone snooker. Completely different, although the breakouts can be similar. Snooker certainly can break out the safety opening, but 8-ball is a wide open break. So, the pattern out includes the entire table being filled with balls. The patterns are completely different.
Strategy:
I don't know how to answer this one. The strategy of 8-ball at the simple levels is to run out and use your shotmaking and position skills. I can't even begin to answer what happens in end-game situations. One big difference is that you can't just leave it long, so that part of the snooker strategy is almost a non-factor.
So, given your list, pure tough shotmaking is and has always been what the snooker table players will bring over, as well as the needed disciplined mechanics (although Juli Kelly doesn't exactly have disciplined mechanics). But even among pool players, the best shotmaker doesn't have any advantage when playing 9-ball. It's not as big to be a great shotmaker as it is a great 8-ball position player.
As I said earlier (days ago), I hope Ronnie does well. But, to think he's going to have an easy time is a stretch. If he does the work, he can do well. No question about it. But, he's the #1 snooker player in the world, so he should do well with work. I would hope that the Peach interview would show that our number one all-around player, Mr. Reyes, would also do well at snooker if he put in the effort. He's a national icon at pool, and doesn't play snooker, so your earlier question of why he hasn't switched is obvious. He's not leaving the Philippines and he doesn't want to leave pool. He's making an easy living as far as the Philippines goes.
Fred
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
predator said:
You're right. So, it isn't the game at all, it's the length of the set. Oh wait, that's what I was saying. It isn't the game.
Fred