pro9dg said:
Looks like you should get your facts straight Fred.
Or can't you tell triple shimmed pockets from WPBA buckets?
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Ronnie O'Sullivan to play pool this year
- Thread starter zed9
- Start date
Looks like you should get your facts straight Fred.
Or can't you tell triple shimmed pockets from WPBA buckets?
TheOne said:Then you agree with me Celtic, thats exactly what Im saying nothing more nothing less. I don't know where the 1 pocket and all the other stuff came from! I take it your "3rd" and "shortstop" was a dig at me but youre right. I spent 5 years at Uni and 5 years working honestly hardly hitting a ball. What right do I have to get 3rd in an event? What right do I have to take 9 frames of champions like Souquet in NYC when I haven't hit a ball for a month? The current structure and game of 9 ball makes it wide open for snooker players to "compete". However I actually doubt any of them will do well at 8 ball, I actually think 9 ball suits snooker players more. But straight pool would probably suit them most.
BTW as for your challenge, if I had the money I would take youre bet, I would pick Allison in a womens race and either Marlon Manalo in the mens. Which pool players would you pick?
I'm assuming since Efren and the Lion probably played just as much snooker as pool in the early days neither can be classed as pure pool players!
The 3rd was indeed in refference to you, but it was not a dig at you as much as a dig at this crappy game we play called 9-ball that does not allow the cream to rise to the top. You are a VERY good player, but you most definately are not a great player such as the top 25 or 50 in the world could be called. And 5 years of uni instead of 5 years spent in a pool hall as well as being in Australia most of your time which definately does not help a persons game since the scene simply does not allow the proper competition and challenge to become a force. BUT it is enough to get there on occasion in 9-ball even against the top players due to the ease of the game. I am also not a great player, I am good though, after watching you on your video we would match up well, and given enough kicks at the cat on the tourney trail such as you have done there is one or two events when the stars would line up right and I would get the few good breaks I needed to have a very good tourney.
As for Marlon Manalo for your player, granted he played ALOT of snooker but he has also played alot of pool for many years. There are a total of 4 snooker tables in the Phillipines supposedly, and any cueist in that country is highly unlikely to avoid pool and only play snooker. He may be a snooker player (Amatuer, he was never pro and never did alot in it) but he is also a pool player and that is different then getting the true snooker players to come over to the side of pool and see how they can adapt. Many of the top snooker players have very rigid games that will murder them on a pool table and they have had those strokes ingrained into their head from the time they were 5 years old by snooker coaches. Manalo is not someone I would consider a true snooker player because he has played ALOT of pool for many years.
Canada is full of pool players that are former snooker players, John Horsefall, Brady Gollan, Bernie Mikkelsen, John Jorgenson, Paul Potier, they all at one time were playing snooker. But they have spent YEARS AND YEARS playing pool now to get where they are. They are "former" snooker players. They are "current" pool players. I am sure many top snooker players could get very good at pool if they quit snooker all together and spent the next 5 years or more competing and practicing only at pool. But at the end of those 5 years it is pretty hard to class them as a snooker player at that point, they are now as much a true pool player as anyone.
Efren and Alex, they are and always have been pool players, if you think that just because they played abit of snooker as well then I guess I am a snooker player as well. I probably played 50% snooker in the first 3 years of my pool playing (I AM Canadian). But that is a joke, I am a pool player who has experiance on a snooker table. Alex is no different. I dont know why people from outside Canada think Alex was a snooker player, trust me I saw him playing at 18 years old and he was a pool player through and through. Just because he played the Canadian snooker championships dont get fooled, he played in them because they were right in his home town. Robidoix (sp?) or other top Canadian snooker players will destroy Alex in any long serious snooker match, and Alex will destroy Robidoix any time they match up in 9-ball in a sufficiently long race. They are the two top players at different games. Alex is a pool player and always has been. Most of us in Canada have shot some snooker in our days, it does not change the fact we are pool players, it just makes us pot better then most Yanks!
pro9dg said:Fred Agnir said:
Oh dear, that sucks doesn't it LastTwo, now whats the excuse? Also I still haven't heard the excuses for all the other snooker players such as Manalo that have converted and done exceptionally well. I think you will find Manalo was a snooker player FIRST, this is what this whole debate is about. Celtic mentions many Canadians that where snooker players first, it doesn't matter how long they have played pool since thats the point (well my point anyway) but since it keeps getting twisted I'll say it again:
It's MUCH easier for snooker players to make the conversion from snooker to pool than visa versa.
Fred, LastTwo, do you really disagree with this? If so please tell me your reason and LastTwo please don't take it so personally I'm not trying to belittle pool players, I class myself as one.
You may not class me as a very good one but if I put in the hours I don't doubt for a second that I could be. I don't play anywhere near the level I did 10 years ago, not even close but I still compete. Like celtic said that is more a condemnation of the game of 9 ball than the players themselves, please try and seperate the two.
PS
Fred, Efren also said himself that he is not good enough to be a snooker player, are you selectively ignoring this even though its from the horses mouth? BTW I'm not making any excuses for what Peach said. But I've seen the tables the Pro's play on and I've seen what the Pro's can do on them. Ive also seen how good the young kids are now and if you're not at a certain level by a certain age you have NO CHANCE.
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Fred Agnir said:
I'm sorry if you have seen male players(the women are no where near the level of the men) play in tournaments and practice I did make an assumption that there was no chance you have given your veiws?
Fred Agnir said:
I'm not sure what "the argument is" but I know what my point is (above) and so far I havent seen anyone come close to disproving it. No matter how poorly you think the results of pool players are, the facts are there. The so called "failed" or second tier snooker players such as Marlon, Younger, Drago etc have impressive results. They have 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finishes in pool tournaments with top class fields.
I'm still waiting for someone to list the top finishes a pool player has made in Snooker tournaments? Are you really saying that Efrens (even though I still say he played a significant amount of snooker
session with Jimmy etc compares to Marlons 3rd in the 9 ball WPC and 2nd in the 8 ball WPC? I honestly don't know, if someone points out somebody who has I would be very impressed indeed. But from what I can see all the evidence seems to confirm what I am saying?
Fred Agnir said:
Just like lasttwo you shouldn't take it so personaly Fred, I don't mean that. Maybe you didn't pick up on what I said about Ronnie, even though I think he is one of the finest players to ever hold a cue. I don't think he will do that good at 8 ball (even though I would never right him off if he puts in the work). That is a very high compliment indeed to the pool players if you had spotted it!
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TheOne said:Oh dear, that sucks doesn't it LastTwo, now whats the excuse? Also I still haven't heard the excuses for all the other snooker players such as Manalo that have converted and done exceptionally well. I think you will find Manalo was a snooker player FIRST, this is what this whole debate is about. Celtic mentions many Canadians that where snooker players first, it doesn't matter how long they have played pool since thats the point (well my point anyway) but since it keeps getting twisted I'll say it again:
It's MUCH easier for snooker players to make the conversion from snooker to pool than visa versa.
Fred, LastTwo, do you really disagree with this? If so please tell me your reason and LastTwo please don't take it so personally I'm not trying to belittle pool players, I class myself as one.
You may not class me as a very good one but if I put in the hours I don't doubt for a second that I could be. I don't play anywhere near the level I did 10 years ago, not even close but I still compete. Like celtic said that is more a condemnation of the game of 9 ball than the players themselves, please try and seperate the two.
PS
Fred, Efren also said himself that he is not good enough to be a snooker player, are you selectively ignoring this even though its from the horses mouth? BTW I'm not making any excuses for what Peach said. But I've seen the tables the Pro's play on and I've seen what the Pro's can do on them. Ive also seen how good the young kids are now and if you're not at a certain level by a certain age you have NO CHANCE.
First of all, I never said that you are not a very good player. In another thread I mentioned that you are very good. I just pointed out that you are not on the same level as the top pool players. I hope you realize that. Secondly, you should get your facts straight about Manalo AND pocket sizes at the 2003 WPC. Although Manalo enjoyed snooker and played it alot, during that time he was also a pool player and always has been. I asked Marlon himself about this the last time he was in So Cal. As for the 2003 WPC, I strongly suggest you watch some tapes from that event and then try to call the pockets triple shimmed. LOL, the pocket sizes were the biggest I have ever seen on any pool table. If you just aimed in the general direction of the pockets you were sure to make it LOL, what a joke. Whoever claims to have tightened up the pockets, YOU SUCK AT YOUR JOB. LOL, I can't stop laughing about that!
CHeers NoStroke, youre too kind 
I started using a pool cue and playing 9 ball for the first time this year, although I've been travelling around and playing in quite a few tourny's I really haven't put in any work on the table yet. If I was ALREADY a TOP player there really would be something wrong with 9 ball. But that doesn't mean I can't be if I played for 3 months solid. I've beat quite a few good pro's in this time and I've come close to what I assume you would class "Top Players" for example:
Reyes 11-9 (8 ball)
Strickland 9-7
Manalo 9-6
Souquet 11-9
Raj 11-9
Baservich 11-9
However I have to disagree with you regarding Manalo and I assumed you would try to discredit his Snooker background
The first time I met him was in Reno when I was with Shaun Budd, an ex Snooker player who also has had some great pool results (I'm sure Colin could testify). It was funny because Marlon recognized Shaun from over ten years ago when they both played in the world snooker Juniors (could have been the amatures, I forgot). The reason Marlon remembered it (according to SHaun) was because Budd had a 137 break against him and he hardly had a shot! Maybe it was after this he turned to pool I can't find many pool results from the early 90's with Marlons name on them?
Still waiting for the pool player Snooker success stories?
Oh PS
As for the pocket sizes I just thought it was funny that Doug, the guy that did them comes in and say they where not huge! I let you two sort that one out I wasn't there and I havent seen the tapes. I would say that pockets always look bigger on TV though, but I do doubt that they where anywhere near as tight as this years WPC
I started using a pool cue and playing 9 ball for the first time this year, although I've been travelling around and playing in quite a few tourny's I really haven't put in any work on the table yet. If I was ALREADY a TOP player there really would be something wrong with 9 ball. But that doesn't mean I can't be if I played for 3 months solid. I've beat quite a few good pro's in this time and I've come close to what I assume you would class "Top Players" for example:Reyes 11-9 (8 ball)
Strickland 9-7
Manalo 9-6
Souquet 11-9
Raj 11-9
Baservich 11-9
However I have to disagree with you regarding Manalo and I assumed you would try to discredit his Snooker background
The first time I met him was in Reno when I was with Shaun Budd, an ex Snooker player who also has had some great pool results (I'm sure Colin could testify). It was funny because Marlon recognized Shaun from over ten years ago when they both played in the world snooker Juniors (could have been the amatures, I forgot). The reason Marlon remembered it (according to SHaun) was because Budd had a 137 break against him and he hardly had a shot! Maybe it was after this he turned to pool
I can't find many pool results from the early 90's with Marlons name on them?Still waiting for the pool player Snooker success stories?
Oh PS
As for the pocket sizes I just thought it was funny that Doug, the guy that did them comes in and say they where not huge! I let you two sort that one out I wasn't there and I havent seen the tapes. I would say that pockets always look bigger on TV though, but I do doubt that they where anywhere near as tight as this years WPC
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Ok, I'll miss the 7 (black for you guys) and let you corner hook me a few times to make up the 65 point deficit. That's against the rules here. I watched Steve Knight and another European play Efren and Parica for 3 hours partners snooker on a 12 foot table. The highest run was by Efren when he ran 36 in the last game. I played afterward and ran 42 in the first game. Not very good at all really, but quite a lot better than your guy could do, as I think his high run was 18 points. And I've never played "real" snooker. You guys are so funny. I thought y'all always ran 100's?TheOne said:Actually unknown, there might still be 74 points still on the table. Also its actually impossible to make a 70 break and have no balls left on the table, you see the minimum total clearence would be 15 reds and yellows = 45 points + 27 for the colors = 72 points!
OK, so maybe it if one of these snooker champions have been carless enough to let the other guy pot a few balls first
unknownpro
Celtic said:
Celtic, are you Egyptian, you seem to spend a lot of time in de-Nile?
I really didn't think anyone in the world thought Marlon wasn't a converted Snooker player, well apart from a few guys on here. But he does kind of ruin the debate for you guys doesn't he ;-)
a small snippet from one of his interviews...
"
Oktober 2004
MARLON MANALO
The snooker ace turned pool sensation on accuracy, God-fearing woman, and being chubby
F Your stellar debut in the 2004 Taiwan Pool Championship and your victories against pool gods Efren “Bata”N Reyes and Django Bustamante shocked countless of fan. How high were you about this feat?
M I don’t want to sound mayabang but I knew I could beat them. It was bittersweet because they are my friends and it’s always sad when you beat a Filipino in international event.
F So you absolutely don’t think you were just lucky then?
M I believe snooker players are more accurate. In snooker, every shot takes precision, di pwede ang tsamba. You really need skills to win. In billiards, if you’re lucky, you can beat anyone. And if you’d just compare the size of the tables, parang laruan lang ng bata yung billiard table. Snooker is harder because the pockets are also smaller. And the distance of the ball from the pockets, malayo. Yung long shot sa billiards, benta lang sa snooker.
F What compelled you, Asian Snooker Champ, to try 9-ball?
M I’ve been playing snooker for more than 10 years but it never became popular here in the Philippines. Lagi pa akong tinatanong kung ano yun. I’ll still play snooker. I just thought it’s time to shift because in terms of monetary reward, I haven’t been getting much. Besides, there’s a good chance to be the only Filipino to get two tittles, in snooker and pool. No one here has achieved that. I’m going to give myself five years to make it in the pool table. But I’m happy that I was able to show that snooker players are also good in pool. "
He seems to be saying what Im saying, what a plonker - Fred educate him will you!
I really think this thread could reach 500 posts!!
Keep it up its fun
Keep it up its fun
TheOne said:Celtic, are you Egyptian, you seem to spend a lot of time in de-Nile?
So I ask you to show me where he did anything in snooker and you bring up a old interview where he is being complimented on a POOL event and doing nothing more then chatting about the fact he has played snooker?
All he ever did was win an amature Asian snooker championship, not pro, amature. Then he switched to pool, and he played alot of pool. And if you switch to and play alot of pool then you are going to get good at pool, not because you are a snooker champ, but because YOU ARE PLAYING ALOT OF POOL.
Are you missing what I am saying? This is not a Mark Williams case where the world snooker champ (pro) who has rarely played or practiced pool tries his hand at pool and gets his ass kicked. This is the case of a former amature snooker player who quits playing snooker, focuses on pool, practices pool, and then gets good at pool.
You think a snooker player is just going to drop his snooker cue on the table, step up to a pool table, and lay waste? Not going to happen. Any snooker player who makes the switch is going to need to play ALOT of pool, they are going to need to practice ALOT of pool, and then after then have done great amounts of practice and play on a pool table such that they are no longer JUST a snooker player but ALSO a pool player then they will have success.
You and others on this thread want to make it seem like a snooker player only needs to step off his snooker table, practice a week or two of pool, and they can win the worlds. Sorry, not gonna happen. Any EX snooker players who have had success on the pool scene have basically quit snooker and placed all their focus on pool for considerable lengths of time therefore becomming POOL players.
Chris Melling didn't do too bad when he played in the 01 or 02 World Champs, I think he placed in the Quarters or Last 16, not bad for a non 9-baller.
Davis also didn't do too bad when he beat 3 World Champs in 3 nights at the Worlds one year either. Can't really say he is a dedicated pool player.
Davis also didn't do too bad when he beat 3 World Champs in 3 nights at the Worlds one year either. Can't really say he is a dedicated pool player.
Buckster_uk said:
Buckster, after just reading celtics post Ive finally realised what Lee and others have said, you're wasting you time. I've posted in BOLD time and time again what I am trying to get across, now I found an interview where Marlon basically agrees with exactly what Im saying and now Celtic is trying to twist it and put words in my mouth. Who said they werent allowed to practise, thats redicluous? I think I'll rest my case now, nobody has listed any results in snooker comps from pool players, its a slam dunk. But one last time...
"It is easier for snooker players to make the transition to pool than visa versa"
Craig Riley, 2005
Marlon Manalo, 2004
leechenman
Registered
TheOne said:Buckster, after just reading celtics post Ive finally realised what Lee and others have said, you're wasting you time. I've posted in BOLD time and time again what I am trying to get across, now I found an interview where Marlon basically agrees with exactly what Im saying and now Celtic is trying to twist it and put words in my mouth. Who said they werent allowed to practise, thats redicluous? I think I'll rest my case now, nobody has listed any results in snooker comps from pool players, its a slam dunk. But one last time...
"It is easier for snooker players to make the transition to pool than visa versa"
Craig Riley, 2005
Marlon Manalo, 2004
The One after reading your posts i agree that we are definately wasting our time explaining the concept of transition from snooker players to pool...so lets stop explaining. How can you express any views on this forum with people who just will never understand as when you right you are wrong!!!!!
The One i love you...
Lee Chenman
Caution! Pedantry ahead!TheOne said:
Those of us who have followed some of John Street's posers know this is false. The minimum clearance from a full table is:
15 for 15 reds on the first stroke (not likely, but...)
2 for yellow
20 (2+3+4+5+6) for yellow through pink
Then pocket black and go in-off. You might not call this last part a clearance, but it is more throrough than the typical clearance. 37 points. 44 if you require black to be potted. Unless I added wrong. I leave it as an exercise for the student to plan a 70-point clearance, which is not nearly as hard as a 37-point one.
Bob Jewett said:
Very good Bob, I like the way you think
PS
Can you send me a tape of that first shot, would love to see it
Lee, you crack me up. I'm pleaed there's people out there who can see, I thought I was going insane! In summary it was like:
- Name One snooker player that has converted to pool and done any good?
- Err heaps, including Marlon?
- Err, (thats not fair!), err he played pool first or he wasn't any good at snooker lol
- OK, here's an interveiw where he says he was a converted snooker player
- Err, well thats not fair and doesn't count becuas ehe practised heaps LOL
and no doubt fred will come back soon and say, "but Efren (who has never ever played snooker honest, even though he was Asian Champ) beat Jimmy once LOL!!"
The funniest thing Ive ever seen on here almost, but fun none the less lol
See you soon mate
leechenman
Registered
Legendary stuff mate..
The One keep it going mate..you are putting up a awesome fight even tho i dont think it's a winnable one!!! nonetheless your effort and hard typing has been noted and i will support the one from yellow to black clearance!
Jesus even i am waffling...it must be the non stop reading of posts that are either complicated or just complicated mmmm
All good tho at least i now know one thing...never believe a snooker player can turn into a pool player not even Marlon Manalo!
I love you the One..the Two...The Three
The One keep it going mate..you are putting up a awesome fight even tho i dont think it's a winnable one!!! nonetheless your effort and hard typing has been noted and i will support the one from yellow to black clearance!
Jesus even i am waffling...it must be the non stop reading of posts that are either complicated or just complicated
mmmm All good tho at least i now know one thing...never believe a snooker player can turn into a pool player not even Marlon Manalo!
I love you the One..the Two...The Three