Ronnie OSullivans American Hustle Season 1 Episode 1 on Youtube

I must of remembered it wrong. Thank you for the clarification.

How are you liking it? Is a glove needed or is it smooth as a Maple shaft???
I love my Revo. It has the same CB deflection as the Z-2 (which I played with for many years, hence no need to change how I aim with sidespin), and it is smooth, it doesn't scratch or ding, and it is easy to clean (and it stays clean). No glove is required (especially in dry Colorado).

Regards,
Dave
 

I wanted to watch this series, but seeing this interview turned me off after hearing Ronnie trashing pool. Why follow him in his exploration into something he doesn't "respect?" Should've went with Steve Davis, but he obviously isn't the star Ronnie is.

On this note, I don't understand the snooker player/fan preoccupation with denigrating pool? It seems nearly every pool video on youtube will invariably have comments from snooker followers, once again, talking about pocket size/shape and table size. Yeah, pool table pockets are bigger and the table is smaller. Wow. What a revelation! This means what exactly? Only a fool would tie difficulty to the equipment.
 
I wanted to watch this series, but seeing this interview turned me off after hearing Ronnie trashing pool. Why follow him in his exploration into something he doesn't "respect?" Should've went with Steve Davis, but he obviously isn't the star Ronnie is.

On this note, I don't understand the snooker player/fan preoccupation with denigrating pool? It seems nearly every pool video on youtube will invariably have comments from snooker followers, once again, talking about pocket size/shape and table size. Yeah, pool table pockets are bigger and the table is smaller. Wow. What a revelation! This means what exactly? Only a fool would tie difficulty to the equipment.

I understand what you're saying, and he puts it a lot better in the show, but you're cheating yourself if you don't give it a try. He's actually a decent guy and that is by far the most enjoyable pool show I've ever seen. Give it a go. You won't be disappointed.
 
I wanted to watch this series, but seeing this interview turned me off after hearing Ronnie trashing pool. ...
I like to think he was actually talking about English eight ball, which is not actually eight ball, and you might agree with his criticism.
 
I like to think he was actually talking about English eight ball, which is not actually eight ball, and you might agree with his criticism.

I don't think so only because Ronnie isn't a stranger to American pool having played in the Mosconi Cup and the IPT. I'd like to think he would've specified the difference between the two games. His opinion on pool is also the general snooker player/follower sentiment that we all know too well.

I know I'm being a stick in the mud, but the attitude from the snooker camp just annoys me.
 
I don't think so only because Ronnie isn't a stranger to American pool having played in the Mosconi Cup and the IPT. I'd like to think he would've specified the difference between the two games. His opinion on pool is also the general snooker player/follower sentiment that we all know too well.

I know I'm being a stick in the mud, but the attitude from the snooker camp just annoys me.

Why does it annoy you though?

Snooker is fundamentally a much harder game, that's not even a debate.

The key point however is that as pool is much easier, a greater number of players can win any given tournament and additionally you have to make fewer mistakes.

Hence, at the top level it may be even harder for a top pool player to consistently win than a top snooker player.

However it doesn't change the fact that the game at a basic level is much harder.

But why worry about it, I live in the UK and yet play American pool as my primary game, because I appreciate there's no real point in trying to focus on snooker as I would simply never be good enough, even at a very low standard, with the amount of practice I would be able to put in. Yet with minimal practice I can still play pool and pot balls (in a social setting, I'm not talking about tournaments or any serious matches) fairly easily, which makes it more enjoyable. Snooker simply wouldn't be enjoyable as it would involve missing every other shot!
 
Thier attitude is it’s a lot harder then american pool ....and They’re right and. before you get your panties in a bunch that I’m crazy think about it. American’s don’t make shit playing pool in comparison to snooker players. I just saw Ronnie win a tournament this weekend that netted him 150 thousand pounds ($200 grand approx. american money) If American pool players could play snooker they would but they can’t even qualify for the tour so they stay here playing in some small pool hall on the weekend playing local nobodies so they can net a couple grand to scrape together a living.
 
Only a fool would tie difficulty to the equipment.

This is a joke, right?

Of course the equipment plays a huge factor on the difficulty.

How many players with a snooker background have come on to the pool scene and done really well?

Now compare that to the number of pool players that have gone over to snooker and done really well.

It's not even close.
 
I don't think so only because Ronnie isn't a stranger to American pool having played in the Mosconi Cup and the IPT. I'd like to think he would've specified the difference between the two games. His opinion on pool is also the general snooker player/follower sentiment that we all know too well.

I know I'm being a stick in the mud, but the attitude from the snooker camp just annoys me.

Well if it comforts you, in the early days, legend has it that snooker was considered the poorer cousin and easier game compared to English billiards (you know that game that used 3 balls only). Rumor has it that snooker great Joe Davis took up snooker and help start professional world snooker championship when he couldn't beat Walter Lindrum in English billiards.
And it is a fact that snooker is far more difficult game than pool and Ronnie O is the biggest star in cue sports. It is not even close and I am pool fan. :D
 
While the individual shots at snooker are harder for the same relative positions of the balls at pool, it's not clear that makes snooker harder over all. At pool a top player is expected to make runs that are very unlikely at snooker even for the top players. In the end the difficulty is related to how hard it is to beat the competition and how extensive your skill set and knowledge have to be to get to the top.

I think there is a reasonable argument that one pocket with 4 1/4-inch pockets is as difficult a game as snooker under tournament conditions.

A different way to look at the difficulty of a game is how frequently a player has to execute a difficult shot. At tennis, that happens about every two seconds. I think that's why the top finishers in tennis are a very small group -- each match is composed of many, many chances to make a mistake and the statistics don't let the average player beat a Federer one in a billion, unless Roger has a serious injury.

The way both pool and snooker work, there are long stretches in the game where top execution is not required, and any journeyman player can get through the run. At tennis, in half a second Nadal's return is coming back at you and you better be headed it the right direction.
 
This is a joke, right?

Of course the equipment plays a huge factor on the difficulty.

How many players with a snooker background have come on to the pool scene and done really well?

Now compare that to the number of pool players that have gone over to snooker and done really well.

It's not even close.

(warning, tl;dr)

It's not a joke at all. It's illogical and makes zero sense to reduce the learning curve and difficulty of a sport or game down to the equipment alone. It's much, much more difficult to hit a baseball than it is to hit a cricket ball, even factoring in that cricket balls are "bowled" on a bounce.

Does this make baseball the intrinsically harder sport? No. Because the sports have different rule sets and offensive and defensive standards. A home run is a big offensive event in baseball because of how hard it is to hit the ball, while a "home run" (a six) in cricket isn't really all that impressive on its own (not to mention cricket boundaries are much smaller, around 225-300 feet). In cricket, good players are expected to hit enough good balls to get a score of around 40-50 runs.

Similarly, snooker and pool have different offensive and defensive standards. First of all, comparing the rotation games to snooker makes little sense, since the rule sets are so different. Closest pool analog is straight pool. Snooker's greatest offensive accomplishment is a 147, requiring 36 made balls in a row. A run of 36 in straight is something a decent B player could do.

When people compare the "difficulty" of each game, all they are focusing on is how hard it is to pocket a ball in a vacuum, which is rather dumb, because it isn't a 1 to 1 comparison given the two game's different standards.

The "transition" argument is another bad one. It's correlation without causation. To arrive at a definitive answer of which game it's easier to transition to and vice versa, we'd have to know how many serious pool players attempted snooker vs. how many serious snooker players attempted pool, their level of commitment, and prior experience with either game.

Furthermore, it's a lot easier to find an American pool table in the UK/Europe than it is to find a snooker table in the US, so all these snooker players who "successfully" transitioned probably had more experience with pool than a North American counterpart who tried snooker (and to my knowledge, only 4 notable players tried, Rempe, Miz, Alex, and Corey, all past their physical primes at the point when they took their flyer). And the snooker players tried their hands at short race 8 ball and 9 ball, which have a lot more variance than a 5 frame snooker match.

The transition argument also depends on what games we're comparing. If you polled the site on what they feel is the most difficult cue sport, 3 cushion would lead by a significant margin. And given a pool player's more extensive experience with using extreme English, power strokes, and relative ball size, a pool player would excel in 3 cushion more than a snooker player. So is pool now the harder game because the pool player takes to the hardest cue sport on Earth quicker than a snooker player?

People all too often blindly fetishize snooker because of the table length and pocket size, but forget that pocketing a ball in snooker (or playing defense) doesn't mean the same thing as it does in pool. Making 6 balls in a row in snooker for a run in the 20s is pretty good. Making 6 balls in a row in straight pool is nothing. 26-30 balls in a row in snooker for a century is outstanding, an offensive event the greatest players achieve only about 8% of the time. 26-30 balls in a row is basically expected for a professional player in straight pool if he starts with a shot.

Boiled down, you can't sum up the transition argument until first controlling for a shit-load of variables, i.e. game type, talent pool depth, level of commitment, prior experience. My instinctive guess would be that snooker players have transitioned with moderate success because more of them tried. Unless you're a top 5 player in the world in pool, you're probably working a side job. Not much incentive, nor does it make sense, for a middling pro to drop his career and family life to pursue snooker in the UK, where best case scenario for him is probably low-tier pro, which doesn't pay well. Nor does it make sense for Shane to drop his lucrative pool career to go chase mid-tier pro snooker money.
 
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While the individual shots at snooker are harder for the same relative positions of the balls at pool, it's not clear that makes snooker harder over all. At pool a top player is expected to make runs that are very unlikely at snooker even for the top players. In the end the difficulty is related to how hard it is to beat the competition and how extensive your skill set and knowledge have to be to get to the top.

I think there is a reasonable argument that one pocket with 4 1/4-inch pockets is as difficult a game as snooker under tournament conditions.

A different way to look at the difficulty of a game is how frequently a player has to execute a difficult shot. At tennis, that happens about every two seconds. I think that's why the top finishers in tennis are a very small group -- each match is composed of many, many chances to make a mistake and the statistics don't let the average player beat a Federer one in a billion, unless Roger has a serious injury.

The way both pool and snooker work, there are long stretches in the game where top execution is not required, and any journeyman player can get through the run. At tennis, in half a second Nadal's return is coming back at you and you better be headed it the right direction.

This is the point they don't get. A game's/sport's difficulty isn't defined by the equipment. It's defined by the rule set (i.e. 3 cushion and 1 cushion billiards are different stratospheres of difficulty despite being played on/with the same equipment) and ultimately the opponent and talent pool.

Snooker fans often like to use the transition argument as some kind of proof, but all that suggests to me is that tournament rotation pool (the only game where male snooker converts had some success) is of higher variance and the talent pool is shallower in pool, which makes sense, since you basically have to be an all-time great player to even make an upper-class living. Snooker is also more strict about their player base since they have to qualify for the tour, while the tourneys Davis, Drago, etc did well in were open, so if the balls run their way in a short race, they could finish in the money, pulling off a couple of upsets. Davis beat Efren 9-8 once, but this isn't proof of anything. Race to 100, Davis loses by 40 games to the Efren of that era.
 
Why does it annoy you though?

Snooker is fundamentally a much harder game, that's not even a debate.

The key point however is that as pool is much easier, a greater number of players can win any given tournament and additionally you have to make fewer mistakes.

Hence, at the top level it may be even harder for a top pool player to consistently win than a top snooker player.

However it doesn't change the fact that the game at a basic level is much harder.

But why worry about it, I live in the UK and yet play American pool as my primary game, because I appreciate there's no real point in trying to focus on snooker as I would simply never be good enough, even at a very low standard, with the amount of practice I would be able to put in. Yet with minimal practice I can still play pool and pot balls (in a social setting, I'm not talking about tournaments or any serious matches) fairly easily, which makes it more enjoyable. Snooker simply wouldn't be enjoyable as it would involve missing every other shot!

Thanks for the reply. See my lengthy reply to BieberLvr that analyzes the issue.
 
Snip excellent analysis

Excellent and correct analysis on a tired and musunderstood subject. I suspect you’re a throwback to RSB. We had the same analysis presented over and over. It falls on deaf ears/blind eyes more often than not.

Good luck.


Freddie <~~~ Walter Lindrum fan
 
(warning, tl;dr)

It's not a joke at all. It's illogical and makes zero sense to reduce the learning curve and difficulty of a sport or game down to the equipment alone. It's much, much more difficult to hit a baseball than it is to hit a cricket ball, even factoring in that cricket balls are "bowled" on a bounce.

I never said the equipment alone makes snooker more difficult. I just said that it plays a bigger part than you seem to be letting on. I agree that the game being played is also an important factor, so which of these pool games do you believe to be as difficult as snooker. Assuming 9' Diamond with 4 1/2" pockets

8-ball
9-ball
10-ball
14.1
One Pocket
Banks (Short Rack)
Banks (Full Rack)
 
Thanks for the reply. See my lengthy reply to BieberLvr that analyzes the issue.

Good analysis, but my view remains the same, which actually may be aligned with yours, just from a different viewpoint.

I would not say any particular game is harder or easier to win at (i.e. its tough to be World Champion, World No. 1 etc. at any discipline, be it 9-Ball, snooker or whatever), however fundamentally snooker is a harder game, i.e. it is physically harder to pot enough balls into the pockets to win any given frame, there's no debate around that.

The nuance is that because pool is easier, there are more players with a chance of winning, hence any given tournament can be incredibly tough to win.
 
I never said the equipment alone makes snooker more difficult. I just said that it plays a bigger part than you seem to be letting on. I agree that the game being played is also an important factor, so which of these pool games do you believe to be as difficult as snooker. Assuming 9' Diamond with 4 1/2" pockets

8-ball
9-ball
10-ball
14.1
One Pocket
Banks (Short Rack)
Banks (Full Rack)

Any of them can be depending on the opponent. 9 ball race to a 100 against prime Earl Strickland is in another universe of difficulty vs. snooker against someone who has never played. Now if my snooker opponent was Ronnie, I have an equal chance of defeating both of them. 0%.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Difficulty is mostly defined by opponent (and rule set. We can see how the difficulty can change if we make a 9 ball competition best of 5 games, where a "game" now means race to 7). If you're asking which of the games presents the harder solitary challenge in making balls, I don't think we can really answer that because comparing a 50 point run in snooker to running a rack of 8 ball isn't 1 to 1. It's harder to make balls in snooker, but pool requires that you make more of them for a similar level of achievement.

Intuitively, I would say there's a similar amount of people in the world who can go 150 and out in professional straight pool competition as there are who can achieve a 147 in professional snooker competition. The poster Poolmanis here is a good litmus. Last I remember, his high run in straight is 119, while he's achieved (a ball in hand) 147 and 132 runs in snooker. So for a talented cueist, centuries in snooker and 100 ball runs in straight might be of equal difficulty.
 
Can you imagine Americans playing snooker and complaining about the rack?! My god, not only the rack ain’t tight, but the two is off, the five, the eight...:eek:
 
Good analysis, but my view remains the same, which actually may be aligned with yours, just from a different viewpoint.

I would not say any particular game is harder or easier to win at (i.e. its tough to be World Champion, World No. 1 etc. at any discipline, be it 9-Ball, snooker or whatever), however fundamentally snooker is a harder game, i.e. it is physically harder to pot enough balls into the pockets to win any given frame, there's no debate around that.

The nuance is that because pool is easier, there are more players with a chance of winning, hence any given tournament can be incredibly tough to win.

Yes, but snooker requires less made balls to achieve similar results. I think the issue here is that we only consider the popular rotation games and 8-ball, which do give the worse player a puncher's chance of winning a couple of games, sometimes requiring you only make a single ball (when your opponent rattles the 9). Ironically, these games are tougher for the better opponent since their margins are thinner.

This dynamic changes in straight pool. The player is required to make 150 to 200 balls to win. That pool variant is much more merciless. If you don't have the ability to make 20-30 balls in row, playing against a good opponent would be as equally as frustrating as playing against a good snooker opponent. At the pro-level, you need have the ability to consistently make 75-100 ball runs and play absolutely lock-up safes (unlike snooker where distance can often save you). A missed inch on a safe can put you in the chair for an hour as you watch your opponent run a 100.
 
Can you imagine Americans playing snooker and complaining about the rack?! My god, not only the rack ain’t tight, but the two is off, the five, the eight...:eek:

And, my underwear keeps riding up my ass, and these flip flops I'm wearing are giving me blisters, and, and.. where's my earmuffs...?
 
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