Rotation Rules (Filipino Style)

nibrobus

nibrobus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello,

I was watching the Efren Reyes vs. Francisco Bustamante rotation exhibition match from Derby City and noticed a few things. I did a search for "official" rotation rules and what I found had few differences from the rules being played in the match:

1. If the shooter hooks himself and does not want to kick at the object ball, he can spot the object ball and give ball in hand to his opponent in the kitchen.

2. If the shooter fouls, the incoming player can either shoot wherever the cue ball and object ball lie, or has the option of spotting the object ball and taking ball in hand in the kitchen.

3. When racking the balls, the 1 ball is placed at the front of the rack, but all other balls are randomized.

Had some questions regarding these rules:

Regarding rule #1, if the incoming player does not want to shoot the spot shot, can he pass it back to his opponent?

On rule #2, if the incoming player elects to spot the object and take ball in hand in the kitchen, does he have to shoot the shot or can he pass it to his opponent?

Regarding the racking order, do they really randomize the location of the balls except the 1 ball ("official" rules state that the 2 and 3 should be racked on the corners and the 15 be placed in the middle)?

Thanks to everyone for their help!
 
Racking in Rotation is fixed, 1 ball on top, followed by the 13 and the 14 ball,
the 11 and the 12 ball sandwiched the 15 ball, now comes the 7, 10, 9 and 8
ball and at the end of the line, the 2 and 3 balls are placed in the corners
and in between are the 5, the 6 and the 4 ball...
 
yea, gopi is right on with his input. I have been lucky enough to play some rotation with a real nice guy from the Philippines and we played traditional rules which I had no clue were so strategic!

very good game to practice!

Gerry
 
nibrobus said:
Hello,

I was watching the Efren Reyes vs. Francisco Bustamante rotation exhibition match from Derby City and noticed a few things. I did a search for "official" rotation rules and what I found had few differences from the rules being played in the match:

1. If the shooter hooks himself and does not want to kick at the object ball, he can spot the object ball and give ball in hand to his opponent in the kitchen.

2. If the shooter fouls, the incoming player can either shoot wherever the cue ball and object ball lie, or has the option of spotting the object ball and taking ball in hand in the kitchen.

3. When racking the balls, the 1 ball is placed at the front of the rack, but all other balls are randomized.

Had some questions regarding these rules:

Regarding rule #1, if the incoming player does not want to shoot the spot shot, can he pass it back to his opponent?

On rule #2, if the incoming player elects to spot the object and take ball in hand in the kitchen, does he have to shoot the shot or can he pass it to his opponent?

Regarding the racking order, do they really randomize the location of the balls except the 1 ball ("official" rules state that the 2 and 3 should be racked on the corners and the 15 be placed in the middle)?

Thanks to everyone for their help!
Click to expand...

No to both questions. You have to shoot. It doesn't mean you cannot foul. ;) It's a tactical game.
 
I watched that match in person and I left very confused. It seemed like the rules sort of ebbed and flowed as they played. Scott Smith tried to understand, but he ended up just stepping aside and letting them play.
 
mosconiac said:
I watched that match in person and I left very confused. It seemed like the rules sort of ebbed and flowed as they played. Scott Smith tried to understand, but he ended up just stepping aside and letting them play.
Click to expand...

The rules are set and pre-determined. It is a very tactical game and almost as difficult to navigate like a one pocket game.

You just have to be familiar with the game to appreciate the intricacies and tactics of the game. These game will help to improve your skills in position play and safety, and most of all you kick shots.


bayawak aka tirador
 
may i add? :) for the jump cue.. you can't jump if you cannot see the object ball. but if you can see part of it when aiming straight then you can use your jump cue.
 
I need some enlightenment regarding this particular scenario. like for example if the re-spotted ball was placed behind another ball in the foot spot and the CB goes back in the kitchen. when the shooter misses that ball whether intentionally or not, does the next player who got a ball in hand had to suffer breaking that ball, not to mention compromising the layout because the one who shot before him didn't hit it or avoid doing so?

In our case, whenever that player fails to hit such ball, we return the BIH to him until he finally hits it or make legal contact to it. in money games, we pass the BIH back to that player and use the 3 consecutive foul rule, just to avoid that player from delaying the game or refusing to play the ball. any thoughts regarding this one guys?

However, sometimes I do an intentional foul so that the OB would be re-spotted in that kind of situation and forcing my opponent to break a clustered rack. so any thoughts also on this one?
 
just made some quick reference. I saw some rules regarding rotation that a BIH can be anywhere on the table. I guess this one seems to solve that problem. but how about if we were using the rule of spot or play as it lays? this is in connection with my previous question. what solutions or rules do you guys have in mind?
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
just made some quick reference. I saw some rules regarding rotation that a BIH can be anywhere on the table. I guess this one seems to solve that problem. but how about if we were using the rule of spot or play as it lays? this is in connection with my previous question. what solutions or rules do you guys have in mind?
Click to expand...

foul - BIH
spot - kitchen
 
I saw Ronnie Alcano lose 7 - 11 against Efren Reyes in rotation. I was lucky enough to sitting next to a filipino who told me about the rules and strategy play, and why they played shots like they did. Think I would have felt pretty stupid just trying to figure out the rules myself...

The game is a very difficult game to play, but it looked pretty easy when those two played tough ;)
 
rotation said:
Jump is illegal in rotation, i'm not sure if they changed it already.
Click to expand...


it is legal as long as you can see part of the object ball from where you look from when lining in your shot from the cueball. you can ask dennis orcollo, bebeng gallego, troy danao and jarry pelayo. saw them play rotation using jump cues.
 
rom said:
it is legal as long as you can see part of the object ball from where you look from when lining in your shot from the cueball. you can ask dennis orcollo, bebeng gallego, troy danao and jarry pelayo. saw them play rotation using jump cues.
Click to expand...


During my college days (around 1989), i've played warren, gaga, bert (pasay), elvis, allan lyceum and bruce, and jump is definitely illegal during those days, that's why i said i don't know if they changed it already.
 
rotation said:
During my college days (around 1989), i've played warren, gaga, bert (pasay), elvis, allan lyceum and bruce, and jump is definitely illegal during those days, that's why i said i don't know if they changed it already.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's why there is a spot rule and the use for it in rotation. otherwise, they would have abolished that by now if jump is already legalized. I affirm your statement, eventhough that I might have forgotten a few details on how it is played, I definitely know that jump wasn't allowed before. However, if such rule has been implemented in rotation, I believe it's one of those variation or modification in the game. handicaps in that game is still prevalent whether +5, +10 or 1 shot per turn handicap, last ball CB scratch, etc...

I'll try to remember and post other rules regarding rotation on my next post.
 
nibrobus said:
Hello,

I was watching the Efren Reyes vs. Francisco Bustamante rotation exhibition match from Derby City and noticed a few things. I did a search for "official" rotation rules and what I found had few differences from the rules being played in the match:

1. If the shooter hooks himself and does not want to kick at the object ball, he can spot the object ball and give ball in hand to his opponent in the kitchen.

2. If the shooter fouls, the incoming player can either shoot wherever the cue ball and object ball lie, or has the option of spotting the object ball and taking ball in hand in the kitchen.

3. When racking the balls, the 1 ball is placed at the front of the rack, but all other balls are randomized.

Had some questions regarding these rules:

Regarding rule #1, if the incoming player does not want to shoot the spot shot, can he pass it back to his opponent?

On rule #2, if the incoming player elects to spot the object and take ball in hand in the kitchen, does he have to shoot the shot or can he pass it to his opponent?

Regarding the racking order, do they really randomize the location of the balls except the 1 ball ("official" rules state that the 2 and 3 should be racked on the corners and the 15 be placed in the middle)?

Thanks to everyone for their help!
Click to expand...
Concerning #2.
He has to shoot the shot. He may not like the current layout of the object balls but he still needs to do a legal shot or best maneuver. These situation comes up rarely but these are the ones that pushes a rotation player to come up with imaginative shots. This situation also teaches the players to learn pinpoint accuracy coming off rails to get a defensive result.
 
rom said:
may i add? :) for the jump cue.. you can't jump if you cannot see the object ball. but if you can see part of it when aiming straight then you can use your jump cue.
Click to expand...
Concerning jump shots:
It's illegal if you cannot see any part of the object ball. Very few Pinoys know how to jump with a full cue and that is why the higher level players here are deadly accurate with masse shots. This is one reason for the superior ability in creative safety shots using the rails.

Shot decision making and always for optimal result goes:
Pocket or play an offensive safety for full view of OB. If partly hidden OB, masse to pocket or get safety. If masse is deemed to result in sub-par result then jump with full cue (but this is mostly to pocket the OB). If total obstruction to OB then kick or masse to pocket or play safe. If none of the above is available or if giving the opponent a spot shot is the better option than the above then give him the spot shot. The above is the checklist to help with shot dacision making in rotation.
 
rotation said:
During my college days (around 1989), i've played warren, gaga, bert (pasay), elvis, allan lyceum and bruce, and jump is definitely illegal during those days, that's why i said i don't know if they changed it already.
Click to expand...

i guess they did... there was no jump cue during those years (i guess were in the same years hehe). I also remember it's okay to jump with your playing cue as long as you don't scoop (sungkit) it way back in the 80's. Unless i guess also depending which region your from, different rules and most of it is not standardized during that time. well even now if you go to some remote areas, it's still not. :)

now, with the jump cue i was surprise why you can't jump if you can't see a full object ball w/ this rule. hmmm...I don't know the rationale about it.
 
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