router collets

P

Pancerny

Mike Pancerny
Silver Member
Just wondering if anyone has ever tried these new collet nuts from Precisebits??

They claim that accuracy is improved to .0004 or better using a standard Porter Cable router.

Thanks,
Mike

http://www.cnczone.com/modules.php?name=News&file=showarticle&threadid=60553


PC-18Collet.gif



PC-Nut.gif
 
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Here is a quote from Precisebits concerning that same question:

My question: "You offer 2 levels of accuracy: .0004 and .0002. This implies that I can just install an 1/8" shank cutter in a clean Precise Collet & expect .0004 or better TIR with the Porter Cable #7518. Is this true? Is this guaranteed?"

Their reply: "No. That is incorrect. Our TIR specifications are for the collets themselves, measured in a precision fixture. There is no implication of improving the Porter-Cable router, only replacing their surprisingly bad collets."

Concerning the bearings - they wouldn't affect the accuracy appreciably. Most high speed bearings run pretty true. In this application, better bearings would only last longer...maybe.
 
Hi Bob,

Thanks for posting. Sounds like you too investigated the Porter Cable option.

I read a post that you are pretty content with the Kress router that you have, do you use it for inlaying??

Was it necessary to change your tool offset for cutting parts or do you offset by 1/2 of the tool diameter, i.e. .0156" with a 1/32 endmill???

I have been looking at getting an NSK Planet but may be swayed to the Kress for the price as long as the accuracy is there. The Planet does 60,000 rpm with accuracy within 1 Micron but it's VERY expensive as I'm sure you know.

Any thoughts??

Thanks,
Mike
 
We have used the Porter Cable on our CNC mill for years and it has about 1/1000 run out with their collet and my 1/8 adapter. Only down side is it jamming and being hard to take out. If their collet is easy to change bits in, then it would be great. We get 6 month to a year use out of a PC laminate trimmer and then chunk them. Not bad for the amount of work we make them do. How much are the collets? Do they fit the laminate trimmer?
 
I haven't used these on a router... But I have this type of collet on a mill. They are based on the ER double collet design. You can tell just by looking at the picture that they are gonna be better than the PC collets. Look at how nice the ground finish is on these, then look at your PC collets.

Although the PC router won't ever be as true as a higher dollar spindle, these collets can't help but improve its concentricity. There can be lots of places where runout can originate from... The bearings, the machining of the spindle, the machining of the spindle nose , the machinig of the collet, etc. You are only improving one of these areas with this new collet, but it might be the most significant. On the other hand, it might not. But if the price is right, they look worth a try.

On a side note, I just bought a new 890 series PC router to replace my 15 yr old 690. The new one is absolute junk. The collets are crap compared to the old one, and the bearings get hot enough to burn your skin after 10 minutes of running the machine. And I've had the height clamp break off. I looked on Amazon reviews and there are dozens of the same consumer complaints, going back 5 years. It seems in 5 years time on the market, PC has not made any improvemnts to this particular router's weak design and quality.

I don't have a PC trim router, but I would imagine the collets on their new machines and their overall quality will not be as good as the older US made models. PC is now owned by Black and Decker, and all their tools are made in Mexico. I'll never buy a PC product again.

Sorry for the rant...
 
Pancerny said:
Hi Bob,

Thanks for posting. Sounds like you too investigated the Porter Cable option.

I read a post that you are pretty content with the Kress router that you have, do you use it for inlaying??

Was it necessary to change your tool offset for cutting parts or do you offset by 1/2 of the tool diameter, i.e. .0156" with a 1/32 endmill???

Thanks,
Mike
Click to expand...

see this thread for my current thoughts on Kress: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=116337

I requested that people check runout on their spindles but nobody replied. I was hoping to find out some information on the spindles everyone uses & some real, hard numbers about how accurate they really are. I would still like to explore this issue.

When using a spindle I can trust, I use 0.000 offset for inlays & I cut the pockets with -.001/.002 offset, depending on material and depth. Works every time. If you can't trust your spindle, it's a crapshoot. A larger (stiffer) cutter will cut oversize due to runout, while a small cutter may deflect enough to give you the correct size. Either way, cutter life will suffer since you're only using one side.

I checked several forums before deciding against the PC. Nothing but complaints about bearing life, vibration, etc. Apparently, they were bought out a few yrs ago & quality has dropped. (see iusedtoberich's comments above) Best bet it to take an indicator to your vendor & actually check the collet seat on the router you intend to buy.

Chris, on Precisebit's site there is a list of routers their collets will fit. They are pricey but they can be used on a new router if yours dies. They also have a feature that ejects your bit when you loosen it (as does the Makita).
 
Bob,

I will indicate the spindle on my kress router tonight for you and post back here by 6pm approx 7 1/2 hrs from now
Mark
 
If you can, indicate the spindle by itself, then also indicate the shank of a bit installed in the collet. (At a consistent distance of .5 inch or whatever works for you) Remove and reinstall the bit and collet several times, and indicate it again each time.

Doing this you will see how good your spindle is, and how good your collet and collet nut is, and how repeatable your collet is.

If you are using a test indicator (last word style) try to keep the contact probe parallel to the axis of the spindle.
 
LOL, no prob, was going to say that the only thing a last word indicator would tell me is if there is a hole in the spindle or not LOL
 
Bob and others,
the TIR on the spindle ID of the Kress Router is .0005 the average TIR with a tool in the collet is .00075

Mark
 
almarktool said:
Bob and others,
the TIR on the spindle ID of the Kress Router is .0005 the average TIR with a tool in the collet is .00075

Mark
Click to expand...

That's how my old black Kress routers checked out but my new red ones aren't that close. Is yours the 800w/110v model or the 1100w/220v?
 
almarktool said:
mine is the 800 watt 110v model
Click to expand...


Mark call me later on today and tell me how to check the run out the correct way and I will check my 1050w 220v as soon as I can.

Jim.
 
checking spindle runout

Should the spindle be checked when it's running or just spinnning it by hand??

Thanks,
Mike
 
I think the readings would be a little exaggerated if you took them while running due to inertia of the moving parts of the dial indicator.

Kelly
 
I have used the Ultra Precisions from US Shoptool in my HSD mill, and I could not measure any TIR at all (at the end mills exit point in the collar). Doing the measurement I had the touch probe 90' on the endmills axis using the indicator Precisebits sell. 1/8" collet was used and a stock Precisebits end mill for the test.

I currently on a trip sitting on the hotels Wlan, but I'm happy to do the numbers when I'm back and post up here so you could compare. I have got a even more accurate dial indicator so I can hopefully give some numbers.

How far down the endmill do you measure (distance from collet end to X in the Z direction on the endmill)? I did get some indication if I moved further down the endmill, which I guess is depending on the endmill manufacturers ?

I use "ColletCare" spindle cleaner and lube after each day of work..

Kent
 
JoeyInCali said:
I dunno how that would be without changing the bearings.
Click to expand...
WHo's a good supplier of replacement bearings for the PC trimmers?
Thanks:thumbup:
 
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