Rule question: Broken cueball

Mr.psychopath

Mr.psychopath

Twichy
Silver Member
So last night I was playing some 9-ball with a few buddys. I was up to brake and made nine ball, but the cueball broke into 2 pieces:eek:. The largest part of the cueball remained on the table while the smaller piece did not. My friends imediatly called foul and my nine on the break did not count.

So my question is: If the cueball breaks into 2 pieces and the larger portion remains on the playing surface is it a foul?

P.S.
If the nine counted I would have won the set.
 
James said:
Sounds like you need new friends!

If one of my friends shattered a cueball on a break against me I would automatically concede the set just for the demonstration of real ultimate power www.realultimatepower.net

Did you win the set anyway?

I'd say no foul...
Click to expand...

I forgot how much I love that website. Here's an excerpt for those who haven't been there before

"Testimonial:

Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it. These guys are so crazy and awesome that they flip out ALL the time. I heard that there was this ninja who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja killed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a ninja totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.

And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't believe that ninjas have REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or they will chop your head off!!! It's an easy choice, if you ask me.

Ninjas are sooooooooooo sweet that I want to crap my pants. I can't believe it sometimes, but I feel it inside my heart. These guys are totally awesome and that's a fact. Ninjas are fast, smooth, cool, strong, powerful, and sweet. I can't wait to start yoga next year. I love ninjas with all of my body (including my pee pee). "
 
We just stopped after that happened, because we didnt have a cueball to play with anymore. Eventually we resumed a new set using the 14 ball as a cueball and didnt really keep track of the score.

Mr.p<======= Thinks hes a pool ninja.
 
that's an interesting situation. Broken object ball could also fit here.
First, since you won't find such situation under "Fouls" in new World rules of play, it is NOT a foul.
Second, I think broken balls should be judged according to
24. Act of God
It may be that something unforeseen under these rules will occur during a match. In such a case, the referee will decide how to proceed in a fair manner. For example, it may be necessary to move a rack in progress to a different table, in which case a stalemate may be declared if a position cannot be transferred.
In your particular case I would have counted your golden break and a set won, because that cueball damage didn't influence the outcome of the shot.
 
I have never witnessed a cue ball or any other ball breaking in my lifetime. I could imagine an older clay cue ball breaking in which case you might have been playng with collectible balls. But correct me if I am wrong, only a defective set of balls should self destruct on a standard breaking impact.
 
This is the first time I've ever broken a cueball, but I have chipped one before. I've also taken a chunk out of an object ball. All were different sets of balls, all on bar boxs (I usually dont play on bar boxes).
I think I just have bad luck with getting old/defective balls.

Mr.p<==== The balls hate me =(
 
this is a great question, and an example of how stupefying stuff can and does come up all the time. i guess a referee would have to decide this, but he had no referee. so what would the official ruling be on this??

this reminds me of the all time weird thing i saw in pool. dave hemma is hooked 10 feet away from his hanging ball in a game of golf. he does a pretty serious curve (not just a slight one) and the cueball arcs around the ball he's hooked by, straitens its path and by god it is heading right, exactly for the middle of his hanger (ie going to be a score). about 1 or 2 feet before the cb contacts his ob, the object ball inexplicably falls into the pocket, and the cb rattles around in the jaws of that pocket.

what did they rule?? they gave him a hickey becasue he didnt make contact with his ball, and he didn't get to advance to the next hole. haha, brutal.
 
I have seen the cue ball break the one ball in half at my home room by a kid that grew up with Tony Robles. I am an APA cities referee and there was no foul for cracking the cueball so the shooter won with the nine on the break as far as I can tell. Way to swing a cue.

Leonard
 
Mr.psychopath said:
So last night I was playing some 9-ball with a few buddys. I was up to brake and made nine ball, but the cueball broke into 2 pieces:eek:. The largest part of the cueball remained on the table while the smaller piece did not. My friends imediatly called foul and my nine on the break did not count.

So my question is: If the cueball breaks into 2 pieces and the larger portion remains on the playing surface is it a foul?

P.S.
If the nine counted I would have won the set.
Click to expand...


As a referee I have a few questions.

1. Did any of the pieces of the CB deflect any of the object balls ?

2. Did the CB break before inpact of the rack, after impact or at the time of impact ?

3. Was this a money game, tournament format or for bragging rights ?

(3.A) If it was for bragging rights you won the overall hands down and have earned bragging rights for life ! :D
 
Maybe we should have to determine the location of the largest remaining piece. If that piece is on the table, then no harm done. If it's off the table then would have to be a foul.

Maybe ball manufacturers should dye the core center (about 1 mm or less) so that in case there is a tie amongst ball fragments as to which is largest, then the one containing the most of the core center could be the tie-breaker.

Hopefully we shouldn't have to utilize Archimedes (Eureka!) principles in order to sort out which piece is the largest.... Although that would be a great add-on image for the story, to see the players collecting piece fragments and scientifically measuring and inserting irregularly sized ball fragments into a glass of water in order to determine the result.
What about the drama of it all! Victory or Foul will be determined by these scientific calculations...

We have the Physics of Pool, and now could add-on the Science of Pool

In case it wasn't clear... Just havin fun... :)
 
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I broke a nine ball rack, and the 9 ball shattered into many pieces. I just thought it was cool.

What it the game was meaningful? What to do? Spot another stripe ball is the obvious solution. But where would it be spotted? On the spot, or should it go on the spot of one of the broken pieces? Did one of the pieces go in a pocket?

hmmm.
 
I saw a similar situation like this once. Randy Burris broke the and the 1 ball busted into two pieces. The larger part went on the floor and the tourney director was Larry Price and he did call it a foul because the larger part was on the floor. Randy was a little upset, but I guess its the tourney directors call.

Southpaw
 
Mr.psychopath said:
So last night I was playing some 9-ball with a few buddys. I was up to brake and made nine ball, but the cueball broke into 2 pieces:eek:. The largest part of the cueball remained on the table while the smaller piece did not. My friends imediatly called foul and my nine on the break did not count.

So my question is: If the cueball breaks into 2 pieces and the larger portion remains on the playing surface is it a foul?

P.S.
If the nine counted I would have won the set.
Click to expand...

That's a judgement call by the referee. I would not call a foul and just replace the broken cue ball with another one. And the game continues.

In all my years officiating, I only saw a similar situation one time. Swanee broke the one ball into two nearly equal pieces on the break shot. Yes, it was an old ball in a bar. I wasn't a ref there, I was playing. No one knew what to do. So they asked me.

I looked at the one ball sitting there in two pieces, about four inches apart. I said replace the one ball with another one, placed in the middle between the two pieces. Everyone was happy with that and the game went on. I've always felt the best solutions are often the simplest ones.
 
To answer Mikejanis's questions:
1.No, none of the parts of the cueball ever came into contact with any of the object balls.

2.The cuebal broke right on impact with the rack.

3.It was for bragging rights.

As an update my friends still say its a foul, because it directly affected the outcome of the break e.g.If the cueball had not broken it could of scratched. I also said it was unpreventable. An act of god so to speak and that was shot down with the reply of "if a bird landed on the table and knocked a ball in that wouldnt count now would it". So it seems like i cant win as my friend is extremely stuburned.
 
jay helfert said:
That's a judgement call by the referee. I would not call a foul and just replace the broken cue ball with another one. And the game continues.

In all my years officiating, I only saw a similar situation one time. Swanee broke the one ball into two nearly equal pieces on the break shot. Yes, it was an old ball in a bar. I wasn't a ref there, I was playing. No one knew what to do. So they asked me.

I looked at the one ball sitting there in two pieces, about four inches apart. I said replace the one ball with another one, placed in the middle between the two pieces. Everyone was happy with that and the game went on. I've always felt the best solutions are often the simplest ones.
Click to expand...

OK... To take simple and complicate it... Why? Cuz it's the internet and that's what we love to do here...

1. What if one of the other object balls (yet unbroken) or CB happens to roll into that 4 inch space between those two pieces and stop? Whatcha gonna do with that broken ball now?

2. What if an object ball simply rolls through that 4 inch space and stops elsewhere? Would that fall under the rules for balls moving through the space of an accidentally moved non-cue ball?

3. What if one of the pieces were on the floor or pocket, while the other remained on the table? Is it a Foul or no foul? And do you still try to judge where the midpoint of the 2 pieces are?

4. If the ball broke into 3 or more pieces, would the ruling change?

5. Or what if the 2 pieces were not so equal? Let's say 1 piece were three times as big as the other one. Would appropriate weighting be utilized, such that the replaced ball is 75% closer to the bigger piece and 25% closer to the smaller one?

6. How bout the unlikely event that 2 or more balls break up? What if the centers of 2 halves of 2 different balls, match up to the same spot?


We need to know these things? Inquiring minds want to know. Must have consistency in the rules...
 
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FLICKit said:
OK... To take simple and complicate it... Why? Cuz it's the internet and that's what we love to do here...

1. What if one of the other object balls (yet unbroken) or CB happens to roll into that 4 inch space between those two pieces and stop? Whatcha gonna do with that broken ball now?

2. What if an object ball simply rolls through that 4 inch space and stops elsewhere? Would that fall under the rules for balls moving through the space of an accidentally moved non-cue ball?

3. What if one of the pieces were on the floor or pocket, while the other remained on the table? Is it a Foul or no foul? And do you still try to judge where the midpoint of the 2 pieces are?

4. If the ball broke into 3 or more pieces, would the ruling change?

5. Or what if the 2 pieces were not so equal? Let's say 1 piece were three times as big as the other one. Would appropriate weighting be utilized, such that the replaced ball is 75% closer to the bigger piece and 25% closer to the smaller one?

We need to know these things? Inquiring minds want to know. Must have consistency in the rules...
Click to expand...

These are all good questions. So far this situation has come up once in 40+ years. I'm not really too worried about "next time". Especially not with the new super aramith balls. The old clay balls could and did break from time to time. But if it should happen again during the next 40 years, we'll think of something, I'm sure. :D
 
jay helfert said:
That's a judgement call by the referee. I would not call a foul and just replace the broken cue ball with another one. And the game continues.

In all my years officiating, I only saw a similar situation one time. Swanee broke the one ball into two nearly equal pieces on the break shot. Yes, it was an old ball in a bar. I wasn't a ref there, I was playing. No one knew what to do. So they asked me.

I looked at the one ball sitting there in two pieces, about four inches apart. I said replace the one ball with another one, placed in the middle between the two pieces. Everyone was happy with that and the game went on. I've always felt the best solutions are often the simplest ones.
Click to expand...
Jay, surprised you did'nt tell the story about the two high rollers who were
playing one pocket. A particular shot came up requiring a really hard stroke
(a long bank I think it was) The object ball broke in half so they asked
Puckett what the ruling should be. Puckett,(never at a loss for words and also in with the other guy)said," Near as I can figure he fouled, and he owes half a ball"
 
Mr.psychopath said:
So last night I was playing some 9-ball with a few buddys. I was up to brake and made nine ball, but the cueball broke into 2 pieces:eek:. The largest part of the cueball remained on the table while the smaller piece did not.
Click to expand...

Damn!! WHo are you, THe HUlk or The Thing? WHat did the cueball look like inside?
 
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