Rule question: Playing with a break cue.

The Renfro said:
I play with a BK2 phenolic tip and all... And yes I can draw, follow, and load the cueball... I actually got a clarification from the BCAPL which outlawed phenolic on breakcues. There is nothing illegal about PLAYING with phenolic in their events. You just are not allowed to BREAK with it...

And flash no offense but I'll happily play you some 9ball cheap if you want a demonstration :yes:
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No offense taken but I don't think you would like that much.

I am going to get me some ear plugs tomorrow and shoot a few games with my phenolic tip. Just to see what can be done with it.
Can you tell me one thing?? Why would you ever bring your game down and shoot with a phenolic tipped cue? And then have the juju to challenge me??
If you tell me you can do the same with a phenolic tip as you can with any other stick. Either you don't know what a phenolic tip is or your not a very good shot to start. No offense.
 
I have a white diamond tip on my break cue. It is some sort of composite phenolic and fiber material and makes the familiar phenolic "ping" when breaking.

For fun I have shot a couple games with it in the past and with that tip you can spin the CB and use a reduced amount of follow and draw. It does have a funny feel.
 
I just seen another thread asking what a phenolic tip is. I am starting to believe there are different materials being used and being called phenolic.

I have a "CANNON" cue,,it has a true phenolic tip. It's as hard as the cue ball itself!!
It's hard to say if everyone on this thread are talking about the same tip.
 
inside_english said:
I ran a local tournament recently and the guy who finished second played all day with a break cue (phenolic tip).

Another player complained that it should have been against the rules.

I have not heard of such a rule, at least not in smaller tournaments.

Any input on this?
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I have a BK2 I still havent paid for yet(sorry-long story)

RCK Glen is over at my house tweeking my Diamond box and he is blind as a bat sometimes, anyways he grabs it to roll a few balls to see how the table is rolling, then he starts to hit a few, now bear in mind this guy is strong as Hercules and has a POWERFUL stroke, like HillBilly power perhaps more. He isnt aware he is playing with a break cue, a shot comes up he power draws the CB like Mike Massey, where the CB sits there spinning for a instant before it grabs and takes off, Its a smooth G-10 tip Im not sure if he chalked it, I never told him about it. I just realized at that moment if you got the stroke you will get the action on the CB. I mean it was a power draw of the highest level almost 2 table lenghts, he just kept on shooting.

So after he leaves I go look at the cue to see if he scuffed up the tip(which would have been cool with me Glen can do what he likes with my stuff-I trust him 100%); he didnt, I chalked it up real good and could draw the ball 4-6 feet with it, but I dont own a cue that I can draw the rock with like he did with break cue that day. Its all in the stroke and power, I have a good solid straight stroke, but not the power.


One time I was blasted on pain pills(really blasted), muscle relaxers etc about 3.5 years ago playing a buddy $20 or $40 sets, he plays hard no matter what, I wont mention his name but he is a vegas guy who I really respect as a person/player, he is in his late 30'd i'd guess. I had a tip I didnt like and couldnt break with it, I break bad anyways. i asked if I could use his break cue, he said "sure no problem", he is cool like that, it was a old Schon with a water buffalo tip as I remember, stiff cue hard tip. Good break cue forsure. Like I said I was blasted on drugs, I broke ran out walked over picked up the other cue in his corner and was getting ready to break again, he said "Dude thats my playing cue". I looked down and damned if it wasnt, I was embarassed. I forgot I ran out. I think I won one set that day, he plays 1P better than me and like me he has his moments playing other games were good action for each other. so I broke and ran a rack with a kinda sorta break cue.
 
Was it stottlehammer? He threatened to beat me with his break cue @TopHat and like you said, he could do pretty much everything with it that he could with his regular cue.

And SVB played Klatt with the spot being he had to use a break cue...wasn't even fair, in the end.
 
I just did a search,looking at phenolic tipped cues. Many use the word phenolic followed by carbon fiber ,,, linen,,or composite!!
Where do you draw the line?? I don't know!! But anything less than 100% is NOT the same!!

Cannon cues are the only cue I know of that have a true phenolic tip. There is no real tip on it,,,its a ferule with a rounded end. All one piece and does NOT require chalk. Its as hard as the cue ball,,chalk does not help. It cannot be shaped or dented. If you hit it with a hammer it would probally shatter.


I found a picture of a BK2. Its a phenolic composite.

http://anitokid.blogspot.com/2008/06/predator-bk2-break-cue-break-into-big.html

If you have never seen or used a Cannon cue with a 100% phenolic tip. You don't know what the difference is. Apples and oranges,,,there's is a huge difference.

After looking all this up,,, I really doubt that the person that took 2nd was using a 100% phenolic tip. Although what stick used was not stated!! And its not such a hard thing to do if the tip is some type of composite.

Problem is the word phenolic is being used ,,loosely!! And is a small % of the material used. But still being called phenolic!!
 
I didn't read all your words, but if you are a doubter with cash, you can get played and I would bet the s-hammer would 'love to have ya'.

flash5153 said:
I just did a search,looking at phenolic tipped cues. Many use the word phenolic followed by carbon fiber ,,, linen,,or composite!!
Where do you draw the line?? I don't know!! But anything less than 100% is NOT the same!!

Cannon cues are the only cue I know of that have a true phenolic tip. There is no real tip on it,,,its a ferule with a rounded end. All one piece and does NOT require chalk. Its as hard as the cue ball,,chalk does not help. It cannot be shaped or dented. If you hit it with a hammer it would probally shatter.


I found a picture of a BK2. Its a phenolic composite.

http://anitokid.blogspot.com/2008/06/predator-bk2-break-cue-break-into-big.html

If you have never seen or used a Cannon cue with a 100% phenolic tip. You don't know what the difference is. Apples and oranges,,,there's is a huge difference.

After looking all this up,,, I really doubt that the person that took 2nd was using a 100% phenolic tip. Although what stick used was not stated!! And its not such a hard thing to do if the tip is some type of composite.

Problem is the word phenolic is being used ,,loosely!! And is a small % of the material used. But still being called phenolic!!
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Black-Balled said:
I didn't read all your words, but if you are a doubter with cash, you can get played and I would bet the s-hammer would 'love to have ya'.
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Lol,,,, I am not going 3 states over to play anyone. But,,I'm right here in Mid Michigan. Come to me!!!
I am a BB to a A player. I will take anyone on ,and I do mean anyone!! They play with a true 100% phenolic tip,,I play with any stick I prefer.
I'll give all breaks,,8 ball,,,on a BB,,,race to 5 for $100

Not worth jumping on a airplane!! But will play many sets!!
The offer is open for anyone,,,any scouts out there want to try to prove a point??:grin:
 
If you're scared, just say so.

No need to hi-roll people. Sheesh.

flash5153 said:
Lol,,,, I am not going 3 states over to play anyone. But,,I'm right here in Mid Michigan. Come to me!!!
I am a BB to a A player. I will take anyone on ,and I do mean anyone!! They play with a true 100% phenolic tip,,I play with any stick I prefer.
I'll give all breaks,,8 ball,,,on a BB,,,race to 5 for $100

Not worth jumping on a airplane!! But will play many sets!!
The offer is open for anyone,,,any scouts out there want to try to prove a point??:grin:
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Black-Balled said:
Was it stottlehammer? He threatened to beat me with his break cue @TopHat and like you said, he could do pretty much everything with it that he could with his regular cue.

And SVB played Klatt with the spot being he had to use a break cue...wasn't even fair, in the end.
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Actually it was Stottlemyer...:)
 
Flash quit educating these people LOL...

Yuppers the BK2 tip is a phenolic composite and while producing the classic tink it has pretty good playing characteristics. I started playing seriously right when Future Tips hit the market in the early 90s and was crushed when they went under after a few years. Future Tips were likely the first plastic/phenolic tips sold to the pool sector. I had several stockpiled and ran out finally around 98 or so and had to swap back to leather

The first time I was goofing off with my BK2 playing a friend a few sets a light went off in my head.... That was 2 years ago and to my cue maker's chagrin he has been unable to find anything to put on my regular shooters that will make me go back....

It also makes for a good cover story as I can walk in with the BK2 in a rubber band and explain that I lost a wad, my playing cue and custom case last week and am back looking for the guy but will match up with whoever with mega weight since all I have is a phenolic tipped break cue.
 
The Renfro said:
Flash quit educating these people LOL...

Yuppers the BK2 tip is a phenolic composite and while producing the classic tink it has pretty good playing characteristics. I started playing seriously right when Future Tips hit the market in the early 90s and was crushed when they went under after a few years. Future Tips were likely the first plastic/phenolic tips sold to the pool sector. I had several stockpiled and ran out finally around 98 or so and had to swap back to leather

The first time I was goofing off with my BK2 playing a friend a few sets a light went off in my head.... That was 2 years ago and to my cue maker's chagrin he has been unable to find anything to put on my regular shooters that will make me go back....

It also makes for a good cover story as I can walk in with the BK2 in a rubber band and explain that I lost a wad, my playing cue and custom case last week and am back looking for the guy but will match up with whoever with mega weight since all I have is a phenolic tipped break cue.
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I'm not educating ,,I'm learning. :thumbup:

This thread got my attention because I have a true phenolic tipped cue and its not a shooter at all. Knowing what I know now, about what is being called phenolic ,,the OP's original story of someone taking second with a phenolic. Is not so impressive!!

I don't think any of these cues were meant to be used as a shooter, but like you say,,, some shoot OK!! And it sounds to me like you are using "phenolic" to get some weight.

Good luck with that. I'm wondering how much of a disadvantage using a BK2 phenolic really is. How much does it take from your game?? (It's time for you to educate):grin:
 
flash5153 said:
I'm not educating ,,I'm learning. :thumbup:

This thread got my attention because I have a true phenolic tipped cue and its not a shooter at all. Knowing what I know now, about what is being called phenolic ,,the OP's original story of someone taking second with a phenolic. Is not so impressive!!

I don't think any of these cues were meant to be used as a shooter, but like you say,,, some shoot OK!! And it sounds to me like you are using "phenolic" to get some weight.

Good luck with that. I'm wondering how much of a disadvantage using a BK2 phenolic really is. How much does it take from your game?? (It's time for you to educate):grin:
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Hit that phenolic tip of yours with a tip scuffer and put some chalk on it. Shoot a few racks with it and you just might learn a whole lot more. There are many different grades of phenolic available and there are many tips available on the market that are phenolic composites.. Bottom line is, they are all about the same in hardness. The difference, some of them hold chalk better than others. You can still get chalk to adhere to phenolic, so long as the surface is roughed up a bit.

You shouldn't discredit someone just because you can't do what they can do.

Consider yourself educated.
 
bradsh98 said:
Hit that phenolic tip of yours with a tip scuffer and put some chalk on it. Shoot a few racks with it and you just might learn a whole lot more. There are many different grades of phenolic available and there are many tips available on the market that are phenolic composites.. Bottom line is, they are all about the same in hardness. The difference, some of them hold chalk better than others. You can still get chalk to adhere to phenolic, so long as the surface is roughed up a bit.

You shouldn't discredit someone just because you can't do what they can do.

Consider yourself educated.
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Thanks for the education,,,but I don't want to turn my Break/jump cue into a shooter. It does a great job,,, as is,,, and does not need a thing!!

Did you even read the thread??

I didn't discredit anyone for anything!!! I can shoot balls in with a phenolic tip,,but it does put one at a disadvantage. Unless you are trying to say you can get the same reaction from phenolic as to a leather tip!! lol. NOT!! If that were the case everybody would be using them and leather would be a thing of the past.

If you think me saying that playing a phenolic puts one at a disadvantage,,, and that is discrediting someone. Then you are looking at this all wrong,,,because that is the truth.

After saying all that,,I'm not sure if you know what a phenolic tip is,,,,you may be referring to your experience with some type of composite. And that is why this whole thread is somewhat confusing.

People are shooting with different types of phenolic tips and saying it can be done. Because that is what they have!! But there not all the same!!

I've had enough of this topic,,let it go please. I don't plan on shooting with a phenolic tip. And anyone who wins a tournament with one,,as their main stick,,,IS MY HERO!!! LMAO :grin:
 
tucson9ball said:
I tried breaking with one for a while and could not control the cue ball. I switched back to a leather tip.
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I did the same thing. I tried a phenolic ferrule on my break cue without a tip and I didn't like it. I put a Sumo tip on the phenolic ferrule and I couldn't be happier. I have better control on the break and it jumps real well.

James
 
flash5153 said:
Thanks for the education,,,but I don't want to turn my Break/jump cue into a shooter. It does a great job,,, as is,,, and does not need a thing!!

Did you even read the thread??

I didn't discredit anyone for anything!!! I can shoot balls in with a phenolic tip,,but it does put one at a disadvantage. Unless you are trying to say you can get the same reaction from phenolic as to a leather tip!! lol. NOT!! If that were the case everybody would be using them and leather would be a thing of the past.

If you think me saying that playing a phenolic puts one at a disadvantage,,, and that is discrediting someone. Then you are looking at this all wrong,,,because that is the truth.

After saying all that,,I'm not sure if you know what a phenolic tip is,,,,you may be referring to your experience with some type of composite. And that is why this whole thread is somewhat confusing.

People are shooting with different types of phenolic tips and saying it can be done. Because that is what they have!! But there not all the same!!

I've had enough of this topic,,let it go please. I don't plan on shooting with a phenolic tip. And anyone who wins a tournament with one,,as their main stick,,,IS MY HERO!!! LMAO :grin:
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Unfortunately, I did read the whole thread. And because I wasted so much time on it, I decided that I should at least comment on your posts. If you don't think the following two posts discredit the person mentioned in the original post, then I just don't know what to say.

flash5153 said:
Knowing what I know now, about what is being called phenolic ,,the OP's original story of someone taking second with a phenolic. Is not so impressive!!
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flash5153 said:
After looking all this up,,, I really doubt that the person that took 2nd was using a 100% phenolic tip.
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For the record, I know exactly what phenolic is. I have researched, purchased, and machined different grades of phenolic for use in various applications. I have also shot with a few different phenolic tips and different composite tips. However, I feel no need to have a pissing contest over what phenolic is. The more important thing to consider is why anyone would want to use a phenolic tip to play with. If you'd look at it a bit more open-minded, you might learn why. Shooting with a phenolic tip forces you to hit closer to the center of the cueball. You also have to have a pretty damn good stroke to shoot consistently with a phenolic tip. Putting in the time to practice with a phenolic tip will improve your game. I don't know why anyone would want to play a tournament with one, but perhaps this gentleman wanted to treat this tournament as a disciplined practice session. Or, perhaps he just wanted to show off just how good of a player he is (Based on the comments that he made after his wins, I would guess the latter).
 
bradsh98 said:
Unfortunately, I did read the whole thread. And because I wasted so much time on it, I decided that I should at least comment on your posts. If you don't think the following two posts discredit the person mentioned in the original post, then I just don't know what to say.





For the record, I know exactly what phenolic is. I have researched, purchased, and machined different grades of phenolic for use in various applications. I have also shot with a few different phenolic tips and different composite tips. However, I feel no need to have a pissing contest over what phenolic is. The more important thing to consider is why anyone would want to use a phenolic tip to play with. If you'd look at it a bit more open-minded, you might learn why. Shooting with a phenolic tip forces you to hit closer to the center of the cueball. You also have to have a pretty damn good stroke to shoot consistently with a phenolic tip. Putting in the time to practice with a phenolic tip will improve your game. I don't know why anyone would want to play a tournament with one, but perhaps this gentleman wanted to treat this tournament as a disciplined practice session. Or, perhaps he just wanted to show off just how good of a player he is (Based on the comments that he made after his wins, I would guess the latter).
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Well,,lets continue to hijack this thread. Actually it's not a total hijack our comments do relate to the original topic.:cool:

The whole issue about this is all about what phenolic is. There are so many different composites of phenolic,,some may be 10% phenolic. Who knows??

I seen a post where one person said his BK2 phenolic hits the balls rather well. It has a regular ferule , a backer and a composite tip. How can this possibly hit the same as a 100% phenolic tip?? (a chain is as strong as its weakest link) I think they mix these materials to make it harder,,but still grip the cue.

Honestly I don't know how all these other tips hit. I only have a cannon cue with a 100% phenolic tip.

Since you have worked with these materials,,explain to me how you think they are the same or different.

I have a open mind,,I could be wrong. But right now I'm not impressed that someone says they are shooting with a phenolic cue,,when it is really a composite. Because I don't believe they are the same. Apples and oranges!! (am I discrediting you or anyone else?)-------> Maybe??

I may have jumped ahead of myself since I don't have these various cues to test. I can admit when I'm wrong but I'm still not a believer.

Thing is,,we are (arguing) over this,, but these sticks are not meant for this application. Why do we care?? :confused: I do not agree with practicing with these tips,, for cue control. lol

We do agree on one thing.. Why would anyone use a phenolic tipped cue in a tournament??
 
inside_english said:
He used it to jump/break/shoot all day, and still came in 2nd with a tough field.
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I don't see a thing wrong with a player shooting with his phenolic tipped break cue if he wants to. If he can beat me playing with that type of cue then he's a much better player than I am. I wouldn't think about shooting with my super stiff hitting break cue and I don't think I could run a rack with it if I tried! More power to the player who placed second shooting with his phenolic tipped break cue.........

James
 
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