rules change suggestion

ShootingArts

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Silver Member
It seems that there should be a rule change concerning the breaks. I find it ridiculous that a "great break" that spreads the balls out but fails to pocket a ball is not rewarded, indeed is punished by giving the other player the table and an easy run out.

Poor or weak breaks that pocket a ball are rewarded by letting the player stay at the table. Rewarding someone for a poor break seems ridiculous also.

With all of the adjustments the IPT has made to better the game it only seems reasonable that a person should stay at the table after a great break regardless of if they pocket a ball and sent back to their chair if they don't make a good break, regardless of any silliness about a ball falling. Breaks shouldn't be about balls falling but should be a judged event with the esteemed commentators being the judges that decide who stays at the table and who sits down after a break.

Wow! Great ideas abounding this morning, I just had another one. I think I will kill the sound on the tube while watching the IPT and listen to some good music instead!

Hu
 
Hi Hu,

That seems a pretty bad idea to me. Pool is about potting balls, that should always determine whether or not a break is "good". Letting the ref. or commentators decide sounds a bit silly (nothing personal).

gr. Dave
 
Who's to say what a "great" break is?

As far as I'm concerned if no ball drops on the break it is a lousy break. Unless I am the guy in the chair watching. In that case it is a "great" break, for me.

Jake
 
I can only assume that ShootingArts is having a laugh. I hope so because if he's serious about this suggestion he's obviously not well and needs to seek a doctor.
 
Have any of you watched the IPT on TV

Your lack of knowledge of the IPT game is shocking.

Shocking!

Hu
 
Great Breaks

ShootingArts said:
With all of the adjustments the IPT has made to better the game it only seems reasonable that a person should stay at the table after a great break regardless of if they pocket a ball and sent back to their chair if they don't make a good break, regardless of any silliness about a ball falling. Breaks shouldn't be about balls falling but should be a judged event with the esteemed commentators being the judges that decide who stays at the table and who sits down after a break.

Hu
Click to expand...

Announcer: "And the Ukrainian judge gives that a 5.7, he'll be sitting down!"
Sigel: "That's what happens when you break like one of the girls!"
KT: "It's because of the slow nap cloth and the tight pockets! And he also eats processed food!"

Brian in Va :D
 
Lets All Play "T- Ball"

Hey Brian .....Right on ....!!!!!!! That was great...:) :) :D :D ....You know that is exactly the way "T-Ball" started in little league......"Gee coach....my son Simon can't hit that pitched ball".... Coach...."That's okay Mr. Goldberg....we will put it on a "T" for him....Better Mr. Goldberg"... ????
When I played little league...if I did not hit.... I met a new friend.....His Name was "The Bench".....
To Hu......I have some knowledge of the IPT......I am competing in it..!!!!
Do Not Change The Game.....To move forward.......You must Put A Ball in the Little Hole.....Do Not Pass Go ...and Do not Collect $ 200....Get It..?????.( p.s. ) And I do mean Little Hole.....Try 4" pockets in California....
It's like there are not enough arguments in this game already....lets add a few more.......No Offense meant Hu......
 
KT and Mike know more about the IPT than anybody

Nineballggs,

You may play in the IPT but there are no greater experts than the commentators who designed and created this particular version of eightball and the tour. They repeatedly state that it is a great break if the balls are spread well and it leaves the other player an easy run out when nothing falls. On the other hand a softer break that is consistently pocketing a ball on the break and allowing runs is still a poor break according to Mike and KT.

That being the case it is obvious that pocketing a ball and leaving yourself a shot at another ball is not the goal of the IPT break. If the primary goal of breaking is to make a lot of noise and roll the balls around that is what should be rewarded, not this old fashioned silliness of making a ball. Karen Corr(SP?) won matches without a single good break. How ridiculous is that?

You may be competing in the IPT but apparently you aren't watching the video afterwards or you would have noticed these great revelations about pool. I can foresee the coming of special IPT breaking events where each player is judged on the best of three breaks in each round. nobody will pay any attention to balls made but a decibel meter will measure noise volume and sophisticated replay will measure things like cueball air time and of course break speed will be of major importance.

Maybe pool will finally be a major olympic event like table tennis!

Hu


Nineballggs said:
Hey Brian .....Right on ....!!!!!!! That was great...:) :) :D :D ....You know that is exactly the way "T-Ball" started in little league......"Gee coach....my son Simon can't hit that pitched ball".... Coach...."That's okay Mr. Goldberg....we will put it on a "T" for him....Better Mr. Goldberg"... ????
When I played little league...if I did not hit.... I met a new friend.....His Name was "The Bench".....
To Hu......I have some knowledge of the IPT......I am competing in it..!!!!
Do Not Change The Game.....To move forward.......You must Put A Ball in the Little Hole.....Do Not Pass Go ...and Do not Collect $ 200....Get It..?????.( p.s. ) And I do mean Little Hole.....Try 4" pockets in California....
It's like there are not enough arguments in this game already....lets add a few more.......No Offense meant Hu......
Click to expand...
 
that makes two of us

Brian,

That reads like you actually listened to the commentary too! In small doses it probably isn't hazardous to your health but the effects of long term exposure are not yet known.

I'd be vewwy vewwy careful, to paraphrase Elmer Fudd. I am going to brave the danger of the unknown one more time and then I think I'll turn the volume down and the music up until the finals just to minimize exposure. I wonder if Mike will provide commentary on his own match with the long delay before anything is actually shown?

Hu



Brian in VA said:
Announcer: "And the Ukrainian judge gives that a 5.7, he'll be sitting down!"
Sigel: "That's what happens when you break like one of the girls!"
KT: "It's because of the slow nap cloth and the tight pockets! And he also eats processed food!"

Brian in Va :D
Click to expand...
 
Commentating the IPT.....

Hello....Hu....Its me again.......For my dollar....KT could not have picked a worse commentator than Mike Sigel......He adds absolutely NO CLASS to this event.....Just Pool Hall jargon.........I sat next to KT's wife-girlfriend ????(do not really know which)....in Atlanta Qualifier. Mike Sigel was warming up for his matches right in front of us. All you heard out of his mouth was F this and F that ......I was embarrassed for her at the time.....Now don't get me wrong.....Even though I was the only one to beat Sigel in Boston...8-3.....This guy can play some pool.....I do not take that away from him. He is clearly one guy you do not want to lock horns with on a pool table. He may just be the strongest player in this whole thing. However, He can't talk his way out of a paper bag. His comments continually show his arrogance and ignorance when it comes to adding color to this game.....He was COLOR 30 years ago...Not now..... Jim Rempe for one would have made a much better COLOR MAN. Nick Varner also....The only thing this whole affair is lacking, in my opinion, is class. You can put a "Drunk" in a tuxedo, in the Venetian Hotel, Holding his cue stick......You still only have a "Drunk in the Venetian"....Commentating needs help....and the dress code needs some spiffing up a bit..... But Bottom line.....There is MONEY....and today ....That alone buys MOST PEOPLE. I say Kudos to Deno Andrews....and Kudos to Kevin Trudeau...for doing what they are doing.....They have my vote....Hands down..... I just hope it continues on a POSSITIVE NOTE....This can not miss ....If it is handled correctly....That is the key......Many have tried it before and failed miserably....Pool Players everywhere should be on their knees every night....praying that this ship SAILS>>>>>>>>>>:) :) :D
 
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the rub

The real rub is that the source of the dollars is also the source of the biggest problems with the IPT. When it comes down to the nitty-gritty the IPT is just one man's toy at this point. Unless it starts making some dollars he will go away after he is thoroughly disabused of the illusion that Mike can be dominant again if the equipment and rules favor him. It looks like this tour was set up to be the Mike Sigel tour with all the equipment and rules that Mike wanted.

Simple fact: Mike can practice his butt off on cloth that others don't have. Shortly after they start playing on it too the edge once again goes to the better players. I have played on five by tens with slow cloth and the humidity in the ninety-plus percent range. It wasn't that big of a deal once adjustments are made.

I hope for you and the other players in the IPT that it is a success. For the pool world I hope it is either a success or a quick failure because it is damaging other tours and events.

You hit on two major weak areas; the players appearance and the commentators. Players that don't look professional need some private assistance to present a better image. At the same time, between Mike and KT's comments I am lead to believe that the play is below the level I see in the local bars and pool halls. I'm not foolish enough to believe that is true but if you watch what has been televised with an open mind and without any preconceived ideas just as John Q Public is watching it you will see what I mean. Most of the time MS and KT are hammering the players and then they oooh and aaah over a shot that every banger has made.

Were I in my prime pool shooting days I would be gambling on the IPT too. However I also buy lotto tickets weekly. Any odds at all are better than no odds.

Good luck on the tour. I'd play every event like it was the last and handle my finances the same way.

Hu


Nineballggs said:
Hello....Hu....Its me again.......For my dollar....KT could not have picked a worse commentator than Mike Sigel......He adds absolutely NO CLASS to this event.....Just Pool Hall jargon.........I sat next to KT's wife-girlfriend ????(do not really know which)....in Atlanta Qualifier. Mike Sigel was warming up for his matches right in front of us. All you heard out of his mouth was F this and F that ......I was embarrassed for her at the time.....Now don't get me wrong.....Even though I was the only one to beat Sigel in Boston...8-3.....This guy can play some pool.....I do not take that away from him. He is clearly one guy you do not want to lock horns with on a pool table. He may just be the strongest player in this whole thing. However, He can't talk his way out of a paper bag. His comments continually show his arrogance and ignorance when it comes to adding color to this game.....He was COLOR 30 years ago...Not now..... Jim Rempe for one would have made a much better COLOR MAN. Nick Varner also....The only thing this whole affair is lacking, in my opinion, is class. You can put a "Drunk" in a tuxedo, in the Venetian Hotel, Holding his cue stick......You still only have a "Drunk in the Venetian"....Commentating needs help....and the dress code needs some spiffing up a bit..... But Bottom line.....There is MONEY....and today ....That alone buys MOST PEOPLE. I say Kudos to Deno Andrews....and Kudos to Kevin Trudeau...for doing what they are doing.....They have my vote....Hands down..... I just hope it continues on a POSSITIVE NOTE....This can not miss ....If it is handled correctly....That is the key......Many have tried it before and failed miserably....Pool Players everywhere should be on their knees every night....praying that this ship SAILS>>>>>>>>>>:) :) :D
Click to expand...
 
Commentary

ShootingArts said:
Brian,

That reads like you actually listened to the commentary too! In small doses it probably isn't hazardous to your health but the effects of long term exposure are not yet known.

I'd be vewwy vewwy careful, to paraphrase Elmer Fudd. I am going to brave the danger of the unknown one more time and then I think I'll turn the volume down and the music up until the finals just to minimize exposure. I wonder if Mike will provide commentary on his own match with the long delay before anything is actually shown?

Hu
Click to expand...
I have been listening to the commentary but haven't critiqued it on a forum. (My brain just came out with that scenario and I had to share it!)

FWIW it sounds like Sigel has been told to rile people up to add the Simon Cowell factor (or Howard Cosell factor for those of you old enough to remember him) that will draw more viewers. KT has the gold so he gets to make the rules and it appears his ego wouldn't let him sit on the sidelines and let the pros do the commentary. If I had that much money, I can't say I'd be any different.:)

The only way the sound could be detrimental to ones health would be if one took it seriously. Right now, it just appears to be "telelvision" and more than anything it shows the lack of or perceived lack of intelligence on the part of the average TV viewer in the US.

Brian in VA
 
you may be right

You may be right. From where I am sitting it does look like the commentators are being quite harsh on their own players and even harsher on the rest of the pool world.

I haven't seen Mike play yet and assume you haven't. Wanna bet a hundred yankee dollars that he makes the same "stupid and careless" errors the other players make? I could beat Efren letting him play his normal game and with me playing weak hand only jacked up, at least I could while I was the one sitting in the booth talking crap.

It is fair to say that they have annoyed me with the continuous BS commentary. They claim to have the best pool players in the world and then make them sound like duffers and amateurs. For the general public there is no excitement or drama to watching two people stumbling along making constant unforced errors. Listening to the announcers, the IPT seems more like it is on the level of two back yard tennis players than some of the best in the world playing the game. Do they really think that is going to attract the public?

I am interested in the IPT and my biggest problem watching is a real tendency to fall asleep. With three repeats a night I usually manage to get it all in.

Hu

Brian in VA said:
I have been listening to the commentary but haven't critiqued it on a forum. (My brain just came out with that scenario and I had to share it!)

FWIW it sounds like Sigel has been told to rile people up to add the Simon Cowell factor (or Howard Cosell factor for those of you old enough to remember him) that will draw more viewers. KT has the gold so he gets to make the rules and it appears his ego wouldn't let him sit on the sidelines and let the pros do the commentary. If I had that much money, I can't say I'd be any different.:)

The only way the sound could be detrimental to ones health would be if one took it seriously. Right now, it just appears to be "telelvision" and more than anything it shows the lack of or perceived lack of intelligence on the part of the average TV viewer in the US.

Brian in VA
Click to expand...
 
Please keep in mind...

They are trying to get involvement past the billiard community. That means that they are going to have to dumb it down every week and explain the same things every week, because there are people channel surfing that may be tuning in for the very first time.

Sometimes, boring can be seeing Allison and Karen duke it out for the umpteenth time. Most of the mistakes there are edited out and you see flawless play, or the 'good' shots. That's what ESPN thinks is exciting.

KT has done just the opposite. Most people think pros play like automatons, and showing the bloopers and flubs just make it more interesting. A recap of how they did, should tell you that they still played with enough precision to advance.

This is a new way to feature pool. We think it's exciting, but not very many other sports fans think so. Introducing players, their personalities, and the tension are all good for TV and building a fan base that has not existed before.

Because it is new, it is hard for us to overcome the stereotypes of things we are used to seeing...entire matches instead of snippets. The staggering amount of footage just for this one event that needed to be edited is itself mind-boggling. I am sure there were tons of good stuff that was cut.

Bear in mind, that all the matches are available in their entirety on DVD, so any criticism directed in that vein is pointless. Bringing pool to the unwashed masses is not going to be easy, and I think KT and his crew are doing a fabulous job. Never did I think in my lifetime I would be seeing pool on mainstream TV weekly during primetime!
 
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