Rules question please!!

yankee817299 said:
The incoming shooter moved the 8-ball back and took ball in hand, played another safety and locked up his opponent a 2nd time. This time his opponent got down to shoot one of his opponents balls, not the cue ball, and roll it up against the 8-ball. At that the point the other shooter was up-set, called it a deliberate foul and took the win, after some arguing.
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Sounds like ultimately, the correct call was made.
 
yankee817299 said:
Also, Dan B, I was told that an opponent handing you the cue ball is a thing of the past now?? From what I understand, the rules commission wants you to "shoot out" of the bad position by attempting a legal shot or safety.
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Nothing wrong with picking up the cue ball and handing it to your opponent. No difference between that an just touching the tip of your cue to the cue ball to take an intentional foul - it just saves time.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Nothing wrong with picking up the cue ball and handing it to your opponent. No difference between that an just touching the tip of your cue to the cue ball to take an intentional foul - it just saves time.
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In some rule sets you must shoot a shot. It is not allowed to simply pass the shot. You may want to check the set you play by.
 
most times a person doesnt do something like that if they are aware of the rules. so just put it back and make him shoot again. or stop him when you see what he is going to do in the first place.

just because the rules calls something unsportsmanlike conduct you dont have to act like he is cheating.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I assume the OP meant BCAPL even though he said BCA. (Those two organizations have different rules.)

Here is the BCAPL rule:

1-40 Deliberate Foul ....
c. Object balls: It is a deliberate foul if you intentionally stop or deflect any object ball that is in motion, or intentionally move any stationary object ball that is in play, by any method other than a legal shot, including by intentionally contacting or moving any part of the table in any way. (AR p. 91)
Penalties First violation of (c): your opponent may have the object ball restored (if it was stationary), pocketed or left in its position after the foul. However, it is loss of game if it is the game-winning ball, if any deflected object ball contacts any other ball, or if more than one ball is moved.​

​
According to this, because the ball intentionally touched was the game winning ball, it is loss of game. I think there is no ambiguity here.
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The rules clearly state that this is an unsportsmanlike foul with the penalty being a loss of game and not just for one reason, but two the way I read it.

The op said his opponent struck the 8b intentionally with his tip which is covered in the rules with the "game winning ball" reference, and the second reason was that the deflected ball, the 8, after being struck made contact with another ball. So, apparently, even if it didn't involve the "game winning" 8b hitting any object ball into another results in a loss of game (see above highlighted in blue).

Please correct me if I'm reading it wrong.

best,
brian kc
 
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Kickin Chickin, that is it right there. Thanks for locating that rule for us. And yes, we do play under BCAPL rules. It's crazy how a questionable shot or play can come up and not being able to get a ruling on it immediately.

Thanks again to all.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
The rules clearly state that this is an unsportsmanlike foul with the penalty being a loss of game and not just for one reason, but two the way I read it.

The op said his opponent struck the 8b intentionally with his tip which is covered in the rules with the "game winning ball" reference, and the second reason was that the deflected ball, the 8, after being struck made contact with another ball. So, apparently, even if it didn't involve the "game winning" 8b hitting any object ball into another results in a loss of game (see above highlighted in blue).

Please correct me if I'm reading it wrong.

best,
brian kc
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I'll preface my question by stating I believe this is obviously a foul. My question is:

Is the game winning ball the "money ball" for whichever game your playing? Or does it mean if the player was down to the last ball in the game and intentionally moved the game winning ball?

Sent from my mobular device!
 
maha said:
most times a person doesnt do something like that if they are aware of the rules. so just put it back and make him shoot again. or stop him when you see what he is going to do in the first place.

just because the rules calls something unsportsmanlike conduct you dont have to act like he is cheating.
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They learn real quick after losing the game on the spot. Ignorance of the rules is never an excuse to give a player a break - particularly in league or tournament play.
 
yankee817299 said:
Kickin Chickin, that is it right there. Thanks for locating that rule for us. And yes, we do play under BCAPL rules. It's crazy how a questionable shot or play can come up and not being able to get a ruling on it immediately.

Thanks again to all.
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Freddie & Bob were who posted rules (BCA & BCAPL) for us to refer to.

You are welcome for my input after reading them, though. :wink:

and for the record, I agree that the loss of game should have taken place because it's both the rule, and going forward the player who did this will be acutely aware of that rule and will play accordingly.

best,
brian kc
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
... the loss of game should have taken place because it's both the rule, and going forward the player who did this will be acutely aware of that rule and will play accordingly. ...
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This is an important point. If you let newbies slide on a rule because they don't know any better and you're crushing them anyway, you're not doing them any favors. They'll remain unprepared for the next time the same thing happens and they'll be mad at the "lying nit" who calls the foul on them.

If you really want to let them slide, explain the real rule and tell them you're going to let them slide this one time only but from now on it will be by the letter of the law. Some of them will even take the foul at that point so they don't owe you any favors.
 
I was wondering about that part,
it's late in the season for something like this to happen, for a player,
knowingly pull a stunt like that, I kind of started to think this player had something else going on...
not to cheat, but something else,.. don't know.
 
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