Rules question
- Thread starter Rackemray
- Start date
Since it was deliberate, it's a foul. You have to hit the CB with the tip.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Technically, it is not a legal shot, but id say outside of tournament play, it is accepted.
Id say that youwould have to be pretty petty to call the foul though. I would add that if you feel strongly about it, you inform the tapper that you will call the foul next time...
Id say that youwould have to be pretty petty to call the foul though. I would add that if you feel strongly about it, you inform the tapper that you will call the foul next time...
You need to hit a pushout with a legal stroke, hitting with side of cue is not. Usually when someone wants to just give up ball in hand you would tap the cue with the shaft. If it's not a legal hit, it's a foul, a pushout is a shot not just conceding the table, so if you commit a foul on a pushout, you committed a foul. I had this happen to me one time, I pushed out using a bridge, and double-hit the cueball, it was ball in hand for the opponent.
Where is that confounded bridge?
I usually play with friends and would not call a foul. We play a more casual game.
Avoid playing with bottom feeders
Avoid playing with bottom feeders
I usually play with friends and would not call a foul. We play a more casual game.
Avoid playing with bottom feeders
Avoid playing with bottom feeders
you need to have a legal stroke which is a forward motion of the cue stick and using the tip to contact the ball
i couldnt find the definition in the general rules
but here is a rule for taking an intentional foul in one pocket from the derby city classic rules
bolded by me for emphasisi
if you substitue if you wish tot take a dekiberate cue ball foul
to if you wish to push out
you get the idea
from derby city classic rules one pocket
Deliberate Cue Ball Foul:*If you wish to take a deliberate cue ball foul, you must use your cue tip to strike the cue ball.* If you strike the cue ball with anything other than the cue tip, in addition to the foul penalty, your opponent receives cue ball in hand behind the head string.
A scoop shot still involves contact with the tip, though, does it not? This guy used the ferrule.
You asked for a reference stating that it is a foul to hit the CB with the side of the stick on a push out. This is pretty easily seen in the WPA (world-standardized) rules as follows.
First, we must note that the same rules apply on a push out as on other shots, with two exceptions.-- you don't have to hit the lowest-numbered ball first and you don't have to drive a ball (CB or OB) to a rail after contacting an OB. All the other ways of fouling still apply.
- 2.4 Second Shot of the Rack – Push Out
If no foul is committed on the break shot, the shooter may choose to play a “push out” as his shot. He must make his intention known to the referee, and then rules 6.2 Wrong Ball First and 6.3 No Rail after Contact are suspended for the shot. If no foul is committed on a push out, the other player chooses who will shoot next.
So, clearly, a push out is a type of "shot." A "shot" is defined as follows:
- 8.2 Shot
A shot begins when the tip contacts the cue ball due to a forward stroke motion of the cue stick. A shot ends when all balls in play have stopped moving and spinning. A shot is said to be legal if the shooter did not foul during the shot.
So, is hitting the CB with the side of the stick a foul? Yes, it is a form of Unsportsmanlike Conduct:
- 6.17 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a threefoul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points. Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
...
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
...
In CSI/BCAPL play, Rule 3-4, Push-out After the Break, applies:
1. If there was no foul on the break, the player taking the first shot after the break has the
option to shoot a push-out. On a push-out:...
...b. the cue ball does not have to contact the lowest numbered ball first, or any
object ball at all;
c. no ball has to contact a cushion
d. all other rules and fouls still apply.
2...If you push-out and foul, your opponent receives ball in hand.
In WSR, Rule 2.4, Second shot of the Rack - Push-Out, applies:
If no foul is committed on the break shot, the shooter may choose to play a “push out” as his shot. He must make his intention known to the referee, and then rules 6.2 Wrong Ball First and 6.3 No Rail after Contact are suspended for the shot. If no foul is committed on a pushout, the other player chooses who will shoot next.
While the WSR writing is a little vague, the effect is that all other fouls still apply.
Buddy
edit... written while at large was posting, thanks for including the description of the foul itself. Hard to work the cut/paste on the phone.
1. If there was no foul on the break, the player taking the first shot after the break has the
option to shoot a push-out. On a push-out:...
...b. the cue ball does not have to contact the lowest numbered ball first, or any
object ball at all;
c. no ball has to contact a cushion
d. all other rules and fouls still apply.
2...If you push-out and foul, your opponent receives ball in hand.
In WSR, Rule 2.4, Second shot of the Rack - Push-Out, applies:
If no foul is committed on the break shot, the shooter may choose to play a “push out” as his shot. He must make his intention known to the referee, and then rules 6.2 Wrong Ball First and 6.3 No Rail after Contact are suspended for the shot. If no foul is committed on a pushout, the other player chooses who will shoot next.
While the WSR writing is a little vague, the effect is that all other fouls still apply.
Buddy
edit... written while at large was posting, thanks for including the description of the foul itself. Hard to work the cut/paste on the phone.
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You have to use a legal stroke to execute any shot, it's in the general rules of playing. Unless you are giving up ball in hand, hitting with the side of the cue is not a legal shot. Otherwise you would be able to just pick up the cueball and place it with your hand on a pushout, it's exactly the same thing as stricking the cueball with the side of your cue, especially when done on purpose. The only rules suspended on a pushout is the need to strike a rail and to contact a legal ball.
I have actually had players new to 9 ball pick up the cueball to place it on a pushout, so it's not a very rare thing to happen LOL