Ruling the hit on a frozen cue ball...

Huh

ne14tennis...Just so you know, there is no 'requirement' to elevate the cue, when the CB & OB are close together. The only requirement is that there is not a double hit. We teach how to play these close shots, with a level cue, in our Xpert Class pool schools. It's all about something called the "pierce factor"!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott Lee.....just so you know. I didn't use the word elevate in my reply.

Either u have the wrong quote or the wrong poster :thumbup:

You could also just reply without pimping your gig.
 
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double hit

I don't think the 45 degree angle aplies to this situation.When the CB is frozen to the OB both balls will move as one ball initially.

I remember 1 time at BCA nationals there was a ref who,when called to watch a hit would find 2 balls close together and declare weather these 2 balls were frozen or not.It could be any 2 balls,not necessarily a ball on the rail or any ball related to the shot.I think it may have been his latest training that made him focus on weather or not balls were frozen.
 
http://home.bca-pool.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=54

Billiard Congress of America
World Standardized Rules


3.23 FOULS BY DOUBLE HITS
If the cue ball is touching the required object ball prior to the shot, the player may shoot toward it, providing that any normal stroke is employed. If the cue stick strikes the cue ball more than once on a shot, or if the cue stick is in contact with the cue ball when or after the cue ball contacts an object ball, the shot is a foul. (See Rule 2.20 for judging this kind of shot.) If a third ball is close by, care should be taken not to foul that ball under the first part of this rule.




http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_summary

World Pool-Billiard Association
World Standardized Rules


6. Fouls

6.7 Double Hit / Frozen Balls
If the cue stick contacts the cue ball more than once on a shot, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is close to but not touching an object ball and the cue tip is still on the cue ball when the cue ball contacts that object ball, the shot is a foul. If the cue ball is very close to an object ball, and the shooter barely grazes that object ball on the shot, the shot is assumed not to violate the first paragraph of this rule, even though the tip is arguably still on the cue ball when ball-ball contact is made. However, if the cue ball is touching an object ball at the start of the shot, it is legal to shoot towards or partly into that ball (provided it is a legal target within the rules of the game) and if the object ball is moved by such a shot, it is considered to have been contacted by the cue ball. (Even though it may be legal to shoot towards such a touching or “frozen” ball, care must be taken not to violate the rules in the first paragraph if there are additional balls close by.) The cue ball is assumed not to be touching any ball unless it is declared touching by the referee or opponent. It is the shooter’s responsibility to get the declaration before the shot. Playing away from a frozen ball does not constitute having hit that ball unless specified in the rules of the game.

I've talked to our local BCA referee about this a few times since it's a very confusing rule. If the cueball and object ball are frozen or near frozen, you can shoot it any way you want. He said "near frozen" I believe specify when it appears the balls are touching. It's assumed since the balls are already touching, you cannot double-hit the balls. When it's evident they're not, you must make sure not to double hit the ball.
 
I agree it is different than hitting with a level cue stroking straight.

I disagree about it being very difficult (impossble?). I've made this shot playing One Pocket often, seen it done too many times by other one pocket players and the cue ball went forward and then reversed. No push, no double hit and no hitting the ferrule.

I still think the ref made a bad call.


I think it's very difficult (impossible?) to make a legal hit on a frozen CB/OB by hitting downward on the CB straight into the OB. It's not the same physically as stroking straight at the OB with a more level cue, because the backspin holds the CB in place, trapping it beneath the tip for a push, a double hit or a ferrule foul. If that was the shot, I think the ref was likely right.

pj
chgo
 
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