Sad news…..

The names of those pool halls really bring back some memories.

(insert flashback music)

My first pool room was The Billiard Palacade, near the corner of Mission and Geneva, in San Francisco. I probably spent two or three of my formative years there, sort of like a recently spawned baby salmon who stays in the tidal pools before attempting the run upstream.

It was a great room. You’d walk in and there was a snooker table off to the right in the front window, where “the big boys” played pink ball. The counter was to the left. Perhaps a dozen or more Gold Crowns. The room had huge vaulted ceilings, a reminder of the vaudeville theatre it was in a past life. I remember a blonde woman who ran the place who helped me procure my second cue, an Adams if I recall.

At The Billiard Palacade, somehow I automatically fit in, immediately accepted into the fraternal order of pool players that populated the joint. I used to favor a table on the right side off the room, perhaps three or four tables in. To this day I can still recall the pure, almost orgasmic joy I felt when I ran my first full rack of 15 balls off that table.

The two best players in the room were: a guy called “Big Bob” and who looked like Robert Goulet dressed as a lumber jack, and Jim, mustache, long dark hair parted in the middle, and who favored bell bottom jeans and leather jackets. There was also a whole cast of other supporting players like the two black brothers, Sammy and Fred, who took to calling me “Mr. Serious” (a nick name which can still elicit a chuckle from those who currently know me). Eventually I’d get to a level of play at which I could beat Sam, but not Fred, who was a straight shootin’ sumgun.

I can’t remember exactly how it came about but there was an older Italian gentleman there who befriended me and we began playing 25 point games of straight pool together. His name was Guido and he was built like one of those basketed Chianti bottles, glasses, with a big thick shock of pure white hair and a matching mustache. Over the course of the two or so years we played, I improved, and improved, and improved a little more until I was beating Guido 25-2, 25-3, 25-0 and somehow, he would continue to rack the balls for me, always smiling, as if he took some kind of crazy pride in my improving play and never said an unkind or mean spirited word while my younger insensitive self poured it on him.

Eventually, after I got my first car, I became an adoptee of Town and Country Billiards in Daly City, a few miles up the road on Mission Street. But I still fondly remember my first pool room.

Swimming upstream (almost literally) I came to my new home-away-from-home “up the hill” on Mission Street, a hollowed ground known to local pool players as “Town & Country Billiards.” I’ll never forget the first time I wandered in one night out of the foggy Daly City cold.

It was an old bank building that sat on its own corner, sort of like a miniature Flat Iron Building in New York -- it had that sort of triangular shape, just one story, though. You’d walk up a short set of concrete steps, through glass doors and walk into the room, tables to your left protected by a black iron railing that curved around up to the front desk on your right. It was a pretty gaudy looking place, with red velvet wall paper, white-sided National Shuffle Board tables covered with beige cloth, and Tiffany-style lamps over each 4 ½ foot by 9 battlefield.

Arriving at the desk you’d usually be greeted by the owner, Stan Cleaner, a New York transplant who had seen it all and done it all. On one of the first evening forages I made into the room I was challenged by a young short haired blonde guy, playing with a Gina. He wanted to play 9ball. I went up to Stan and asked, “Do I have a chance?” And Stan, who had somehow already divined my place in the substrata of pool players in his room, said in a very non-committal but totally committal way that my challenger was, “the best in house.” That I had no chance was left unnecessarily unspoken. I passed on my opportunity to play Steve Votter, probably at the time, one of the best players in California.

Daytime visits there, with the large windows along one side of the room allowing the afternoon sun to filter in, are still vivid and magical to me all these years removed. One day I was playing on a table near the center of the room and was surprised to see the legendary Tugboat Whaley walk into the room. Ancient, slightly bowed, but still rosy-cheeked, with pure white hair, suspenders in place he confidently shuffled in, opened up a beat up old black cylindrical leather case, pulled out his brass jointed cue and start hitting balls with a soft easy grace. Shortly thereafter, I was again surprised when I saw Dorothy Wise, then several times Women’s U.S 14.1 Open champ come in. Trim, grandmotherly, and coiffed, she put her own cue together and they began to spar, stopping occasionally for Tugboat to impart some bit of wisdom to Ms. Wise. I probably made two balls that afternoon, as I strained to listen in above the juke box and glean what ever crumbs of knowledge fell from their table. On other days Tugboat would often play Dennis in the alcove behind the desk that had two tables -- only one of them, the one nearest the desk, was “the” table -- and they’d be on it playing a refined game of 14.1 for hours on end. Watching these two elegantly manage and dismantle rack after rack was possibly the incipient start of my love affair with straight pool.

As time went on, I came to know and assume my role amongst the whole cast of motley characters, most near my age, that choose to rush to the pool hall each day, rather than participate in other, more serious life-endeavors. Well I remember being overjoyed to be at the pool hall the Friday night of my senior prom. After all, pool was a lady whose company you could enjoy, savor, and didn’t have to buy a corsage.

Jerry, Dale, Devlin, Rico, 10-Speed, Bob Babba, Dennis, Vince, Steve, Jeff, Eugene, Bob Langstrom, and the rest now lost to memory... It seemed that for several years of my life it all revolved around getting to the pool hall as soon as humanly possible, being heartily hailed by my compatriots, and staying up until I could put off sleeping no more, or the demands of real life -- school, family, job -- could no longer be held at bay. Without any doubt I can categorically state that my major source of calories for more years than I now care to recall was the Landshire Sandwich Company. In particular, their “Special Hoagie,” which as a regular, I was allowed to go behind the desk and cook myself in the pool hall’s min-oven. I had it down to a science: taking it out of the pool hall frig, carefully removing the plastic wrap, placing it in the oven, just so for a precise amount of time, removing the piping-hot said culinary jewel from the mini-oven, slathering it with a golden brown mustard and chasing it down with an ice cold cup of root beer. Life could not possibly get any better.

Over the eight or so years I spent living there the troupe that hung together survived countless adventures and, statistically, many of us should be dead or permanently maimed now (or at least done serious jail time). But through the grace of God or pure dumb luck we survived intact and without judicial punishment

My second pool hall was a ceaseless fount of knowledge and life lessons. We would play endless hours of tonk, gin rummy, or liar’s poker at a café table along the rail, or in the office behind the desk, or play $5 9ball until closing, sometimes under less than ideal conditions. And through all of this silliness, there was the constant undercurrent of serious, serious pool all around us. I’ve mentioned Tugboat and Dorothy, but over the years I spent there, there was almost never a Friday or Saturday night when I didn’t get to watch countless match ups or ring games involving such legendary players as Filipino Gene, Hawaiian Brain, Dalton Leong, Dee Hulse, Tony Annigoni, Steve Votter, Denny Searcy, Junior Goff, and Ronnie Barber. Occasionally there’d be breakfast at 4 am afterwards at Denny’s, or at a little diner up the street, and I was sometimes allowed to participate, quietly eating my eggs and soaking up the road stories. Eventually life, a wedding, and the military came calling. But at the time I just didn’t know that, in so many ways way back then, I was enjoying the sweet spot in time.

Lou Figueroa
Lou,

Great reading your story, turns out we have a lot in common! in the early 60's my father owned a liquor store directly across the street from Jimmy and Dorothy Wise's Sequoia Billiards in Redwood City California. It wasn't long before me being the young and curious tyke that I was went across the street and entered the pool world of that place. Dorothy became like a second mother to me, she used to take me for rides in her new white 63' Cadillac and even asked me to accompany her to a tournament that she was entered in at the Palace. Coincidentally she lost to Tugboat that night but what an experience it was for me to carry her cue for her up those back stairs to the tournament room. Speaking of Tugboat, he gave me my first and only lesson in straight pool what a fountain of knowledge that guy was. I last saw him one day at Cochran's where he was sleeping on one of the back tables.

Those were great times, and I relish the memories. Hell we might have unknowingly crossed paths at some time or another.
Dennis
 
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more then likely, but it does give them time to move if they wanted to
And who pays for the cost of moving and getting the new location up to shape?
The owner would open at a new location and be so upside down it would take
a long time to break even. Moving a pool room involves a lot of time and money.

I recently posted about Hall of Fame Billiards closing in Bay Ridge, a section of
Brooklyn, after 56 years. It was a akin to a landmark, almost like Ames Billiards
was in Times Square. The pool rooms you are frequenting today won’t be around
for decades as most will come to learn if they haven’t already. I don’t understand
why pool hasn’t flourished on a national level instead of regional pockets in the USA.

I think I know why and what it takes to restore pool to its rightful status recognized
as a game woven into the fabric of our nation’s history. However, the billiards industry
is so disjointed and myopically focused that changing the future of pocket billiards is
seemingly impossible to do. It requires unification, coordination, allegiance, sponsors,
a written mission statement industry vendors support and a real business plan instead
of good intentions or wishful thinking. But that’s not going to happen so it’s a slow death.

Support your local pool room operators as much as you can. These locations are going
to continue shrinking in number until there’s but a small handful compared to what it used
to be. How many drive-in movies are still operating in your neck of the woods? I hope it
never gets as bad for pool rooms but the game we all love isn’t growing. It’s just hanging on.
 
the places that are hanging on and making money do this.

have a reasonable daily rate and a monthly rate. this way the room is mostly active so people want to be there. to watch or play or whatever. the empty pool room is gone.

they have a person who cares about the place working there not just a cheap minimum wager.

lastly best, other things to spend money on other than pool.
 
the places that are hanging on and making money do this.

have a reasonable daily rate and a monthly rate. this way the room is mostly active so people want to be there. to watch or play or whatever. the empty pool room is gone.

they have a person who cares about the place working there not just a cheap minimum wager.

lastly best, other things to spend money on other than pool.
Yes you nailed it with your last comment about other things to spend your money on other than pool. Pool in and of itself is not going to pay rent and all expenses of running a commercially successful pool hall. In one of Jay's two books I forget which one but he devotes a whole chapter on what it takes to make a profit owning a pool hall. In it he identifies all the different sources of income to draw from, from bar, eatery, vending machines the works. Love those two books, lots of good stuff in them!
 
A friend here in Chicago rented the space for his first pool room - after several rent hikes he learned his lesson, closed that place and bought the buildings for his next two. That works so well he’s already got two more locations bought and being built out.

Owning the real estate means you make money, not lose it, when the value increases. ...
But then you are investing in real estate rather than running a pool hall. In the case of Family Billiards, the property, which formerly had a Bank of America in most of it, may have sold for $10,000,000. Most people looking to open a pool hall don't have that much spare change.

Back around 1986 the guy who ran the main pool hall in Palo Alto -- about 12 GCs -- was told to buy the property or leave. The property owner wanted a million, and the building was a Quonset hut. The investment would have been very profitable, but the pool guy just wanted to run a pool hall and didn't have a spare million. At that time, the income from the pool couldn't have supported a loan to buy the place. It turned into part of the Reggie Jackson Nissan-Volkswagen dealership.

I suspect the real estate price problem is worse in California than Chicago.
 
But then you are investing in real estate rather than running a pool hall. In the case of Family Billiards, the property, which formerly had a Bank of America in most of it, may have sold for $10,000,000. Most people looking to open a pool hall don't have that much spare change.

Back around 1986 the guy who ran the main pool hall in Palo Alto -- about 12 GCs -- was told to buy the property or leave. The property owner wanted a million, and the building was a Quonset hut. The investment would have been very profitable, but the pool guy just wanted to run a pool hall and didn't have a spare million. At that time, the income from the pool couldn't have supported a loan to buy the place. It turned into part of the Reggie Jackson Nissan-Volkswagen dealership.

I suspect the real estate price problem is worse in California than Chicago.
Huge difference, of course - also, my friend has been smart enough to find buildings that are the right size for just the pool halls, so the real estate investing/management activity is over when the pool halls open.

pj
chgo
 
Lou,

Great reading your story, turns out we have a lot in common! in the early 60's my father owned a liquor store directly across the street from Jimmy and Dorothy Wise's Sequoia Billiards in Redwood City California. It wasn't long before me being the young and curious tyke that I was went across the street and entered the pool world of that place. Dorothy became like a second mother to me, she used to take me for rides in her new white 63' Cadillac and even asked me to accompany her to a tournament that she was entered in at the Palace. Coincidentally she lost to Tugboat that night but what an experience it was for me to carry her cue for her up those back stairs to the tournament room. Speaking of Tugboat, he gave me my first and only lesson in straight pool what a fountain of knowledge that guy was. I last saw him one day at Cochran's where he was sleeping on one of the back tables.

Those were great times, and I relish the memories. Hell we might have unknowingly crossed paths at some time or another.
Dennis

Thank you, L.S.

I think I only made it up to Sequoia once or twice. But did frequent The Palace and Cochran's to a lesser extent. As you say, who knows?

Lou Figueroa
 
But then you are investing in real estate rather than running a pool hall. In the case of Family Billiards, the property, which formerly had a Bank of America in most of it, may have sold for $10,000,000. Most people looking to open a pool hall don't have that much spare change.

Back around 1986 the guy who ran the main pool hall in Palo Alto -- about 12 GCs -- was told to buy the property or leave. The property owner wanted a million, and the building was a Quonset hut. The investment would have been very profitable, but the pool guy just wanted to run a pool hall and didn't have a spare million. At that time, the income from the pool couldn't have supported a loan to buy the place. It turned into part of the Reggie Jackson Nissan-Volkswagen dealership.

I suspect the real estate price problem is worse in California than Chicago.
My friend Jerry owns the building in Ventura, otherwise it probably wouldn't make it. Hopefully when he's ready to retire he can sell the room to another pool player.
 
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I was in San Francisco a couple years ago, and it's basically a s*** hole, except for the financial district. Liberal politics and policies have ruined the city, but yet people will continue to vote for those particular policies, the same policies that ruin the once beautiful San Francisco!
 
they may be misguided but their intentions are noble.
their polices just dont work for americans as they dont follow their leaders as in many other countries.

it will slowly change back to the way it was over time.

water seeks its own level.
 
I was in San Francisco a couple years ago, and it's basically a s*** hole, except for the financial district. Liberal politics and policies have ruined the city, but yet people will continue to vote for those particular policies, the same policies that ruin the once beautiful San Francisco!
Hippies moved in in the 60s and stayed. Now they run the city.
 
luckily in the u.s. we have the right to move to where we want.
if you dont like that state or local rules or whatever you can pack up and go where they are more to your liking.

you also have the right to complain. which rarely does any good against the majority.
 
Keep hearing these horror stories makes me feel i got the nuts: 10 nice GC4's for $4/hr. Howdy-doo-dee. Magoo's in Tulsa. Ever in Tulsa stop on in. Nice joint.
 
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yea but there are a bunch that have 5 to 15 dollars for all afternoon. and you dont have to be in tulsa.
 
I’ve never been in this room. I’ve know of it since 1985.

This is a prime example how the property boom and values have squeezed pool rooms right off the map. Or forced them to retool with barboxes as a solution to gain more revenue per sq ft.

Either way it’s bad for pool, the Mcup the last 10 years is just collateral damage. But the numbers don’t lie.

Sad situation

Fatboy😕
And yet in Los Angeles I see vacant space everywhere, including large buildings and warehouses, perfect places for a poolroom. One day "supply and demand" will start bringing the rental prices down. Who wants to own a building sitting vacant for years. One of the properties I'm invested in lost their anchor tenant last April. The space is vacant and of course the income on that property is way down, by almost two thirds. I'm a minor owner so I have no say in how the property is managed, but I made suggestions to the major partner about what to do but all I can do is sit back and wait. C'est la vie. You gotta save up for a rainy day!
 
It's difficult to be a renter in the Pool Room business. I was lucky in that my building location came up for sale and we bought it. Delbert Wong owner of Family Billiards is a great owner. He almost lost Family Billiards during Covid and persevered in re-opening. It now looks like a rent squeeze IMO but I haven't talked with him in awhile. And then there were none.
Smart man Jerry!
 
Lou,

Great reading your story, turns out we have a lot in common! in the early 60's my father owned a liquor store directly across the street from Jimmy and Dorothy Wise's Sequoia Billiards in Redwood City California. It wasn't long before me being the young and curious tyke that I was went across the street and entered the pool world of that place. Dorothy became like a second mother to me, she used to take me for rides in her new white 63' Cadillac and even asked me to accompany her to a tournament that she was entered in at the Palace. Coincidentally she lost to Tugboat that night but what an experience it was for me to carry her cue for her up those back stairs to the tournament room. Speaking of Tugboat, he gave me my first and only lesson in straight pool what a fountain of knowledge that guy was. I last saw him one day at Cochran's where he was sleeping on one of the back tables.

Those were great times, and I relish the memories. Hell we might have unknowingly crossed paths at some time or another.
Dennis
I booked Dorothy for an exhibition at my poolroom in Bakersfield in the early 70's. She did a teaching segment and showed off some cool trick shots and then I played her a 14.1 match to 100. I was playing pretty good back then, but was never much of a Straight Pool player (no money at that game). I practiced up and was running two or three racks a few times. It was all fun and games until we started playing. I ran something like 27 balls and Dorothy got serious (She was still a world champ then). She played me tight with some good safety play and pretty soon we are tied around forty something. She got an open table and ran 52 and out on me, that old grandma. She got my respect!
 
The names of those pool halls really bring back some memories.

(insert flashback music)

My first pool room was The Billiard Palacade, near the corner of Mission and Geneva, in San Francisco. I probably spent two or three of my formative years there, sort of like a recently spawned baby salmon who stays in the tidal pools before attempting the run upstream.

It was a great room. You’d walk in and there was a snooker table off to the right in the front window, where “the big boys” played pink ball. The counter was to the left. Perhaps a dozen or more Gold Crowns. The room had huge vaulted ceilings, a reminder of the vaudeville theatre it was in a past life. I remember a blonde woman who ran the place who helped me procure my second cue, an Adams if I recall.

At The Billiard Palacade, somehow I automatically fit in, immediately accepted into the fraternal order of pool players that populated the joint. I used to favor a table on the right side of the room, perhaps three or four tables in. To this day I can still recall the pure, almost orgasmic joy I felt when I ran my first full rack of 15 balls off that table.

The two best players in the room were: a guy called “Big Bob” and who looked like Robert Goulet dressed as a lumber jack, and Jim, mustache, long dark hair parted in the middle, and who favored bell bottom jeans and leather jackets. There was also a whole cast of other supporting players like the two black brothers, Sammy and Fred, who took to calling me “Mr. Serious” (a nick name which can still elicit a chuckle from those who currently know me). Eventually I’d get to a level of play at which I could beat Sam, but not Fred, who was a straight shootin’ sumgun.

I can’t remember exactly how it came about but there was an older Italian gentleman there who befriended me and we began playing 25 point games of straight pool together. His name was Guido and he was built like one of those basketed Chianti bottles, glasses, with a big thick shock of pure white hair and a matching mustache. Over the course of the two or so years we played, I improved, and improved, and improved a little more until I was beating Guido 25-2, 25-3, 25-0 and somehow, he would continue to rack the balls for me, always smiling, as if he took some kind of crazy pride in my improving play and never said an unkind or mean spirited word while my younger insensitive self poured it on him.

Eventually, after I got my first car, I became an adoptee of Town and Country Billiards in Daly City, a few miles up the road on Mission Street. But I still fondly remember my first pool room.

Swimming upstream (almost literally) I came to my new home-away-from-home “up the hill” on Mission Street, a hollowed ground known to local pool players as “Town & Country Billiards.” I’ll never forget the first time I wandered in one night out of the foggy Daly City cold.

It was an old bank building that sat on its own corner, sort of like a miniature Flat Iron Building in New York -- it had that sort of triangular shape, just one story, though. You’d walk up a short set of concrete steps, through glass doors and walk into the room, tables to your left protected by a black iron railing that curved around up to the front desk on your right. It was a pretty gaudy looking place, with red velvet wall paper, white-sided National Shuffle Board tables covered with beige cloth, and Tiffany-style lamps over each 4 ½ foot by 9 battlefield.

Arriving at the desk you’d usually be greeted by the owner, Stan Cleaner, a New York transplant who had seen it all and done it all. On one of the first evening forages I made into the room I was challenged by a young short haired blonde guy, playing with a Gina. He wanted to play 9ball. I went up to Stan and asked, “Do I have a chance?” And Stan, who had somehow already divined my place in the substrata of pool players in his room, said in a very non-committal but totally committal way that my challenger was, “the best in house.” That I had no chance was left unnecessarily unspoken. I passed on my opportunity to play Steve Votter, probably at the time, one of the best players in California.

Memories of daytime visits there, with the large windows along one side of the room allowing the afternoon sun to filter in, are still vivid and magical to me all these years removed. One day I was playing on a table near the center of the room and was surprised to see the legendary Tugboat Whaley walk into the room. Ancient, slightly bowed, but still rosy-cheeked, with pure white hair, suspenders in place, he confidently shuffled in, opened up a beat up old black cylindrical leather case, pulled out his brass jointed cue and start hitting balls with a soft easy grace. Shortly thereafter, I was again surprised when I saw Dorothy Wise, then several times Women’s U.S 14.1 Open champ come in. Trim, grandmotherly, and coiffed, she put her own cue together and they began to spar, stopping occasionally for Tugboat to impart some bit of wisdom to Ms. Wise. I probably made two balls that afternoon, as I strained to listen in above the juke box and glean whatever crumbs of knowledge fell from their table. On other days Tugboat would often play Dennis in the alcove behind the desk that had two tables -- only one of them, the one nearest the desk, was “the” table -- and they’d be on it playing a refined game of 14.1 for hours on end. Watching these two elegantly manage and dismantle rack after rack was possibly the incipient start of my love affair with straight pool.

As time went on, I came to know and assume my role amongst the whole cast of motley characters, most near my age, that chose to rush to the pool hall each day, rather than participate in other, more serious life-endeavors. Well I remember being overjoyed to be at the pool hall the Friday night of my senior prom. After all, pool was a lady whose company you could enjoy, savor, and didn’t have to buy a corsage.

Jerry, Dale, Devlin, Rico, 10-Speed, Bob Babba, Dennis, Vince, Steve, Jeff, Eugene, Bob Langstrom, and the rest now lost to memory... It seemed that for several years of my life it all revolved around getting to the pool hall as soon as humanly possible, being heartily hailed by my compatriots, and staying up until I could put off sleeping no more, or the demands of real life -- school, family, job -- could no longer be held at bay. Without any doubt I can categorically state that my major source of calories for more years than I now care to recall was the Landshire Sandwich Company. In particular, their “Special Hoagie,” which as a regular, I was allowed to go behind the desk and cook myself in the pool hall’s min-oven. I had it down to a science: taking it out of the pool hall frig, carefully removing the plastic wrap, placing it in the oven, just so for a precise amount of time, removing the piping-hot said culinary jewel from the mini-oven, slathering it with a golden brown mustard and chasing it down with an ice cold cup of root beer. Life could not possibly get any better.

Over the eight or so years I spent living there the troupe that hung together survived countless adventures and, statistically, many of us should be dead or permanently maimed now (or at least done serious jail time). But through the grace of God or pure dumb luck we survived intact and without judicial punishment.

My second pool hall was a ceaseless fount of knowledge and life lessons. We would play endless hours of tonk, gin rummy, or liar’s poker at a café table along the rail, or in the office behind the desk, or play $5 9ball until closing, sometimes under less than ideal conditions. And through all of this silliness, there was the constant undercurrent of serious, serious pool all around us. I’ve mentioned Tugboat and Dorothy, but over the years I spent there, there was almost never a Friday or Saturday night when I didn’t get to watch countless match ups or ring games involving such legendary players as Filipino Gene, Hawaiian Brian, Dalton Leong, Dee Hulse, Tony Annigoni, Steve Votter, Denny Searcy, Junior Goff, and Ronnie Barber. Occasionally there’d be breakfast at 4 am afterwards at Denny’s, or at a little diner up the street, and I was sometimes allowed to participate, quietly eating my eggs and soaking up the road stories. Eventually life, a wedding, and the military came calling. But at the time I just didn’t know that, in so many ways way back then, I was enjoying the sweet spot in time.

Lou Figueroa
I really like this story. Thanks Lou. I wandered up that way in the mid and late 60's looking for games. Went into Town & Country and played a couple of guys there whose names I don't remember. One guy was tall and thin with a mustache. We played $10 One Pocket and I won a few games before he quit. I also played a young kid with stringy blonde hair who shot straight. He won the first Race to Nine and I won the second and we were done, broke even. I see a poster for a big pool tournament there that weekend, $50 entry fee so I came back a few days later. They had 32 players and a first prize of something like $750. All the best Bay areas guys, Al the Plumber, Dee Hulse, Ronnie Barber and Joe Smiley were there plus a few others who I knew. Lo and behold I see Tom Spencer from Chicago there too. I'm the only one who knows him and I ask him how did he get here. He says he was on the road and heard about this tournament. Make a long story short, I win a match or two and so does Tom and we play each other. He knocks me out and all I get back is my entry fee. He won that tournament! Do you remember it?
 
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