Sad state of pool

Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is something were all aware of, but i had a first hand look(a while back) at just how on a regular basis to cover travel, losses and most importantly to support his life, family, etc. But the guaranteed $$$ he needs just isnt there after covering travel, entry fees, hotels, loss of endorsments(OR lack of, now days), appearance fees etc. There is no $$$ in pool, unless your single with no family to support then a bad streak is ok, but with a family you CANT have a bad month.

I went to a friends house, its a nice house nothing crazy but a very nice house for sure, he has a beatiful family, a man couldnt have it better. he is a top pro pool player, a player that we all aspire to play like unless your playing him, right now given the industry as a whole with endorsements, tournment winnings, and action he can barely cover his nut(no extra for a bad thing), if he was a golfer at the same level he would have a private jet, 3 houses across the world, and things I havent ever heard of. Everyone here knows him he is a celebraty in our world(with no bad habits) and honored where ever he goes, to a tournment or by the manufactors, magazines etc. And is stressed out to support his family. Even doing paid appearances in addition to everything else dosent do it. He dosent live beyond his means or have bad habits etc. he lives comfortably. And is very smart with his $$$. I would help him if he asked but he's not that kind of guy-i offered, he declined. Its tempoary for him, but man pool is down especially the endorsments-only buy from manufactors who use pros to endorse products-that will help our pro's.

my point here is not him, but for all of us support pool, buy the products you like, cues, cases, magazines...whatever from companys pro's endorse. Our pros need it. Believe me If I said his name no one here would believe me-everyone would think he is stacked up with $$$, please dont ask or guess who, I will NOT say-I respect his privacy as he does mine, again my point is, support pool how ever you can-playing aint enough-its a start but do more if you can.

This post applies to just about any pro out there, thats why i posted it.
 
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I, for one, do what I can to support the game. I spend a good amount of money in table time and will pony up an entry fee to a tournament as a player or a spectator when I can afford it. I, however, also have to cover my nut first. I don't complain about my salary as a teacher because I knew that coming into the business. Pool players need to do something to cover their own nut. Give up the things that gives the game a bad reputation, organize themselves, quit bickering amongst one another, and follow strong leadership that can advance the game.

Pool is a game and it is not nearly close to being on par with golf. This is like comparing apples to tennis rackets. Golf has strong leadership, a wealthy fan following, a larger fan following, great corporate sponsors, and their is reasons for all of these things.

The best way for us to help the game of pool is to CLEAN IT UP and to get the people who are interested in golf interested in supporting pool. This is a much sounder idea than buying more cues and cases.

Ask yourself this question: Where would most parents want their kids to spend free time: the golf course or the pool room? When more people say pool room than golf, then we can have a better game.

The advancement of the game starts at local levels. Make your pool hall more inviting for middle class/upper middle/upper class families and then you will see true advancement. ;)
 
PLAY MORE TOURNAMENTS!!!!!! Let's face it, tournaments keep the pros alive. But why do I always see the same faces at the tournaments? Why is it always the same players in the US Open year after year? More players means more money in the purse. It's really sad when there's only 2 or 3 weekly tournaments in town and none of them have more than 10 players every week. These league players are the worst ones. They don't want to play because they don't think they can win. Instead they just want to play some "fun" games with the best players in the room. Give me a break. It's the best $10 lesson you'll ever get and you get to play everyone. I'm not excluding the gamblers either. You know, the guys who show up on tournament nights looking for action.

Personally, I make it a point to play every tournament I can. It's the best practice I get all week. Gambling is easy because you always get a second, third, and fourth chance. When you play a tournament, you have to play well, every match.

But I think the main thing pool needs is unification. I'd love to see a real tour. Why are there 50 tours across the country? Is it really that hard to gather all the sponsors together and make one big tour? Have a stop in every major city. This way I won't have to drive to Texas, Kansas, or Arizona to play in a decent tournament. What about the 6 or 7 amateur leagues in the country? Why not just have one? One national tournament with 20 thousand players. Power in numbers. Pool is strong. Hundreds of thousands of players in the country but everyone is divided into their smaller groups. Why not erase those small leagues?

ONE AMATEUR LEAGUE. ONE PRO LEAGUE. Simple right?
 
bomber said:
I, for one, do what I can to support the game. I spend a good amount of money in table time and will pony up an entry fee to a tournament as a player or a spectator when I can afford it. I, however, also have to cover my nut first. I don't complain about my salary as a teacher because I knew that coming into the business. Pool players need to do something to cover their own nut. Give up the things that gives the game a bad reputation, organize themselves, quit bickering amongst one another, and follow strong leadership that can advance the game.

Pool is a game and it is not nearly close to being on par with golf. This is like comparing apples to tennis rackets. Golf has strong leadership, a wealthy fan following, a larger fan following, great corporate sponsors, and their is reasons for all of these things.

The best way for us to help the game of pool is to CLEAN IT UP and to get the people who are interested in golf interested in supporting pool. This is a much sounder idea than buying more cues and cases.

Ask yourself this question: Where would most parents want their kids to spend free time: the golf course or the pool room? When more people say pool room than golf, then we can have a better game.

The advancement of the game starts at local levels. Make your pool hall more inviting for middle class/upper middle/upper class families and then you will see true advancement. ;)
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in the long run you are 100% correct, however thats a very long run. What happened to my friend was losing 80% of his endorsments-it wasnt just him it happened to alot of pros real fast, the manufactors decided that they would sell just as many widgets with out endorsment and that has had a terrible impact on the pro's now and will deture younger people from wanting to become a pro(for one reason they dont see them as much in the adverts), now we all know that it take something special to be a pro and only a fraction of a % make it there for a number of reasons but supporting the pro's now will help pool in the long run, good pool not gambling based pool.
 
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Fatboy said:
good pool not gambling based pool.
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I don't think gambling is the problem. I see 3 times as much gambling on the golf course. But not nearly as much "hustling." High stakes gambling is fine as long as it's fair. The guys in the pool room are thieves and con artists for the most part. These are the guys that give pool such a negative image. Walk into the room and what do you see? Bums, drunks, and hustlers. Room owners, I'm talking to you. Get these guys out of your establishment. Youth is the key. Get the kids in. When have you heard of kids getting kicked off the golf course because they weren't 21? And I can't even play pool in San Antonio because I'm too young. It doesn't matter that I'm the best player in the room.
 
Fatboy said:
in the long run you are 100% correct, however thats a very long run. What happened to my friend was losing 80% of his endorsments-it wasnt just him it happened to alot of pros real fast, the manufactors decided that they would sell just as many widgets with out endorsment and that has had a terrible impact on the pro's now and will deture younger people from wanting to become a pro(for one reason they dont see them as much in the adverts), now we all know that it take something special to be a pro and only a fraction of a % make it there for a number of reasons but supporting the pro's now will help pool in the long run, good pool not gambling based pool.
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Perhaps your friend should have realized this before he tried to make a lavish living at playing pro. pool. If you are not willing to look at the long run...the game will never improve. It seems that everyone is looking for a get rich quick scheme and are willing to follow anyone to it...IPT comes to mind. What i suggest to your friend....quit *****ing because your chose a "poor" career path and to get a job.
 
Drew said:
I don't think gambling is the problem. I see 3 times as much gambling on the golf course. But not nearly as much "hustling." High stakes gambling is fine as long as it's fair. The guys in the pool room are thieves and con artists for the most part. These are the guys that give pool such a negative image. Walk into the room and what do you see? Bums, drunks, and hustlers. Room owners, I'm talking to you. Get these guys out of your establishment. Youth is the key. Get the kids in. When have you heard of kids getting kicked off the golf course because they weren't 21? And I can't even play pool in San Antonio because I'm too young. It doesn't matter that I'm the best player in the room.
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i agree good gambling can be pool but in most cases its not gambling is hustling, however when your a top pro there isnt much hustle left, its good gambling and hard gambling too hard to depend on for any steady $$$, look at SVB his action is going to be alot harder now since the world knows he beat cory easy, where's SVB's next easy game after Earl?
 
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Perhaps all this gambling is part of the problem. Do you think that AT&T or Ford Motor Company is going to sponsor a game where gambling is so lucrative. Get a clue. And dont even start with me about poker...that is TOTALLY different. And I am also aware that gambling goes on in golf... I have an answer to that one as well...but I will keep it off the forum.

PS: I am not anti gambling...I am pro gambling, done in the right way.
 
steveharn said:
You hit the nail on the head, but will anybody listen? I certainly hope so.
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If you are talking to me then thank you. But to answer your question, will anybody listen...probably not...at least not enough to make a difference.
 
bomber said:
Perhaps all this gambling is part of the problem. Do you think that AT&T or Ford Motor Company is going to sponsor a game where gambling is so lucrative. Get a clue. And dont even start with me about poker...that is TOTALLY different. And I am also aware that gambling goes on in golf... I have an answer to that one as well...but I will keep it off the forum.

PS: I am not anti gambling...I am pro gambling, done in the right way.
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AT&t and Ford will sponsor anything that will make money for them. Don't try to tell me that they care about gambling. Focus on the Family might not sponsor gambling but Anheuser-Busch, GM, and Coca-Cola won't care. There's money in pool. There's a lot of it. But it is so spread out it doesn't look like a lot. We need to put all that money in the same place. How many members does the APA have? All of them paying $10 or whatever every single week. How many members in the BCA, VNEA, and TAP?
 
Got It Right IMO

Drew said:
I don't think gambling is the problem. I see 3 times as much gambling on the golf course. But not nearly as much "hustling." High stakes gambling is fine as long as it's fair. The guys in the pool room are thieves and con artists for the most part. These are the guys that give pool such a negative image. Walk into the room and what do you see? Bums, drunks, and hustlers. Room owners, I'm talking to you. Get these guys out of your establishment. Youth is the key. Get the kids in. When have you heard of kids getting kicked off the golf course because they weren't 21? And I can't even play pool in San Antonio because I'm too young. It doesn't matter that I'm the best player in the room.
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Drew, You are speaking my language with thes sentiments! I am by no means are great pool player, I have several very nice cues and enjoy playing pool for the relaxation and the enjoyment I get from meeting new people. I am not out to play for money and everywhere I go the hustlers come running over to take my money, when I say no thanks the insults and BS starts. I have ZERO interest in these shortstop A holes and find there behavior rude at best. There antics are also unwanted by many of the owners/managers and gives pool a very negative image..
JMO
Dan
 
And didnt we already have Busch leagues...that worked out great. If there is so much money in pool and GM and Coca Cola wont care...then why are they not already sponsoring pool. I am sure their marketing gurus are a lot smarter than us.

Maybe you check out the market share that television pool brings in these days as well. Maybe you should actually think about someone elses opinions before you just totally disagree with a very logical statement. This is the second post of mine today that you have been disagreeable about...the first one you were completely rude and had no reason to be. Perhaps you need to wake up.

Sorry if you cant handle the truth of the situation about our game. Would you like a tissue?

PS: You are right that these leagues have a lot of members...but remember...there are over 300 million americans in this country. Even if there were 1 million pool players in all of those leagues...most of them are lower to lower middle class people who cannot support the game of pool like the golf fans.

PSS I grew up lower class and am currently lower middle class
 
I have been around pool all my life, but have worked all my life also, I just don't see any future in being a professional pool player, just look at the older pool players at DCC next year, most don't have enough money to get their own room, without some income, they have to depend on someone else to support you. This is not a negative on pro pool, but even gamblers lose sometime, and pool playing is hard work, long hours and what do most have to show it after it is all said and done. Who would want to go to work every day and at the end of the day you flip a coin double or nothing to see if you were going to get paid that day or not. Thats what pool players who gamble do. I love to play pool and bet a little, I love to watch pool players play each other, but in no way do I want to be in their shoes, no matter how much they won yesterday.
 
Fatboy said:
It is something were all aware of, but i had a first hand look(a while back) at just how on a regular basis to cover travel, losses and most importantly to support his life, family, etc. But the guaranteed $$$ he needs just isnt there after covering travel, entry fees, hotels, loss of endorsments(OR lack of, now days), appearance fees etc. There is no $$$ in pool, unless your single with no family to support then a bad streak is ok, but with a family you CANT have a bad month.

I went to a friends house, its a nice house nothing crazy but a very nice house for sure, he has a beatiful family, a man couldnt have it better. he is a top pro pool player, a player that we all aspire to play like unless your playing him, right now given the industry as a whole with endorsements, tournment winnings, and action he can barely cover his nut(no extra for a bad thing), if he was a golfer at the same level he would have a private jet, 3 houses across the world, and things I havent ever heard of. Everyone here knows him he is a celebraty in our world(with no bad habits) and honored where ever he goes, to a tournment or by the manufactors, magazines etc. And is stressed out to support his family. Even doing paid appearances in addition to everything else dosent do it. He dosent live beyond his means or have bad habits etc. he lives comfortably. And is very smart with his $$$. I would help him if he asked but he's not that kind of guy-i offered, he declined. Its tempoary for him, but man pool is down especially the endorsments-only buy from manufactors who use pros to endorse products-that will help our pro's.

my point here is not him, but for all of us support pool, buy the products you like, cues, cases, magazines...whatever from companys pro's endorse. Our pros need it. Believe me If I said his name no one here would believe me-everyone would think he is stacked up with $$$, please dont ask or guess who, I will NOT say-I respect his privacy as he does mine, again my point is, support pool how ever you can-playing aint enough-its a start but do more if you can.

This post applies to just about any pro out there, thats why i posted it.
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Go one better - TELL the people you are buying from that you are buying that product because of the exposure given by the sponsored player.

For us on the industry side we can't hardly measure the worth of sponsoring a player. We almost never get anyone calling to say that they are looking at our cues because Rodney plays with them. We almost never see pros talking about their equipment and the great people who sponsor them.

And so very often the relationship feels one sided. So as fans - be sure to let companies know that you are considering the company's products because you saw it associated with a pro. And Pros - you guys and gals have to make MORE of an effort - especially in a down market - to help your sponsors SELL. The more your sponsors see you doing for them the more they will be willing to do for you.

And for EVERYONE - Pool is a low revenue sport. The whole thing - including tables is probably around a half billion to 3/4 billion dollar market. That's not much when compared to most other activities. Only a handful of companies in the industry are doing a million plus a year. So it's not as if there is a lot of money to be had from within the billiards industry.

It IS tough to be a pro pool player in the USA. Especially with no real tour to speak of and LOW payouts. I don't envy the life of any US Pro Player. - but I do want their talent :-)
 
quedup said:
Drew, You are speaking my language with thes sentiments! I am by no means are great pool player, I have several very nice cues and enjoy playing pool for the relaxation and the enjoyment I get from meeting new people. I am not out to play for money and everywhere I go the hustlers come running over to take my money, when I say no thanks the insults and BS starts. I have ZERO interest in these shortstop A holes and find there behavior rude at best. There antics are also unwanted by many of the owners/managers and gives pool a very negative image..
JMO
Dan
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Don't get me wrong, I play for money all the time. And I do support it. I usually don't approach other players but if you ask me to play, I'll ask what you want to play for. I find it very exciting. I love sweating sets for thousands. But I know the guys you're talking about. These guys are not gamblers. They are thieves. Trying to find a quick buck or two. I have very little respect for these types of people. I'll admit, I often woof at these guys. Nothing pleases me more than taking their money.
 
bomber said:
Perhaps your friend should have realized this before he tried to make a lavish living at playing pro. pool. If you are not willing to look at the long run...the game will never improve. It seems that everyone is looking for a get rich quick scheme and are willing to follow anyone to it...IPT comes to mind. What i suggest to your friend....quit *****ing because your chose a "poor" career path and to get a job.
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he dosent live lavishly, I do and i'm not a pro player. He didnt really have a choice-he plays so good that he couldnt walk away from pool, he invested his winnings in mutial funds etc, isnt a gambler to speak of and does have other business interests to keep him going, my point here isnt about him its about the fact that the best in the world in a sport played by millions of people cant make ends meet in that sport alone is sad,

now if he was into fencing, well then yeah keep your day job.

he isnt a pool room bum, does everything the right way dosent drink, smoke, drugs. And he plays in alot of tournments, is a very diciplined person etc and with all those positive attributes he still is struggling in pool, it was good for him until the manfactors dropped most of the pro's endorsment contracts. He still has a few. But thats when he got hurt, he saved alot of $$$ over the years, he is the most responsible player i ever met at his level, beyond that in life in general. He has set up other interests so he will be fine but he told me that it was impossible to make it in pool with tournments, apperarances and action. Thats whay I made this post. Sure if we had an audience like golf we would be fine but that isnt ever gonna happen.
 
Fatboy.........of course it has to be disappointing for any lover of pool to have to come to terms with the fact that pro pool players as individuals and pool tours/competitions in general are not viewed by enough makers of widgets as an appropriate marketing vehicle for their particular widget.

It is even more disappointing that even some of those those widget manufacturers who do manage to leap past that first 'image' hurdle and take the plunge on sponsorship then find upon analysing their commercial results that the players/tours/competitions have not transpired to be adequately efficient or cost effective marketing vehicles for their product.

You can be absolutely sure that from the time of the first ever pool sponsorship by a company up to now there have been far more sponsors who have done it once and once only, never to return, than there are sponsors who have repeated their sponsorship more than once. In a cold and unsentimental light that to me means we pool players and enthusiasts are doing something fundamentally and inherently incompatable with the sport becoming attractive to sponsors.

It's a worldwide problem, not just a USA one, with the possible exception of parts of The Far East although even there it is not the wonderful sponsorship Shangri-La heaven that some seem to think it is.

Against the above described background there is little to be gained by pondering that if a top pool player was a golfer he'd be a multi millionaire. We might as well say that if the world's best ping pong player was a golfer he'd be a multi millionaire. The games are light years apart in almost every respect. Pool as an industry has simply not yet earned any entitlement to such rewards for itself or its top pros, either through the attractiveness of the spectacle it presents to the public or through the results it generates for sponsors.

Perhaps we need to scale back our expectations of how attractive pool is realistically ever going to be to viewers or sponsors, even under the most favourable of circumstances.
 
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Here's how pool players support pool. Actionreport had over 500 on the FREE streaming of the ring game...maybe more like 700 tuned in. Then the next one is $10 a day for 2 days...a very fair price with a clear picture, Grady and Billy. I don't think they got over 125 people that paid.

Another thing that needs to stop is people that pay for the streaming coming on AZ and other sites giving a live play by play of the event to people too cheap to spend $20 to support pool. I know their were people that wanted to get it and couldn't for various reasons, but they are a business trying to at least break even and give the pool world a great show at the same time. Johnnyt.
 
Thank you memikey. Great post.

People to tend to think to big about this game. Just because we like playing it doesnt mean that the best at it should be millionaires. I am sure that their are a hell of a lot of great tic tac toe players out there that dont make a dime from it....why...who the heck wants to watch a Tic Tac Toe tournament. LOL

We need to realize that most people could really give a hoot about pool.
 
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