Safety and Strategy Play in 8-Ball

mjantti said:
Hmm. I see a free shot here and with this layout, I'm 80-90% sure to run out from here, and the remaining 10-20% comes from the first shot which leaves almost nothing to my opponent. Don't want to duck when there's a free shot. And I'm talking about playing a world beater here. Playing excessive safeties in 8-ball will get you into trouble sooner or later.

START(
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%ZI3H8%[N4Z0%\C7M0%]D2D2%^H6G4
)END
Click to expand...

Good point. I was assuming because of the discussion, a safety was the shot.

Jeff Livingston
 
Colin Colenso said:
That said, I think my safety / defensive knowledge is pretty limited. I would appreciate some advice from experienced US 8-ball players on strategical insights and usefull training drills to help learn the application of these.
Click to expand...

Here's something from several years ago:

One up and One Down

One of the strongest strategies that I use in 8-ball is the notion of "One
up and One Down." Basically, the idea is that in an end or near end game
situation, there may be opportunities where you have different safety
options. What I like to do is to maximize my shot rather than just play a duck type safe. Consider the following.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

START(
%AJ1Z6%BK0Y6%HI7E1%Lk0Z1%PG6Y1%Um7P3%VK7[1%[X0V3%\K5[0

)END

I see an awful lot of players content with playing a safety along the blue
arrow. Although you're still in strong position and should win a majority
of the time, you've left one shot on the table that will beat you and you've
forced your opponent to shoot it. Not to say it's high percentage, but it's
there. Three rails to the 12, and you're locked. I would rather my players
take a stronger safety along the yellow arrow, putting one ball up table and
one ball down table. Now there's no return shot other than a wild kick in.
This type of "one up and one down thinking" will win the matches. And the
shot along the yellow is no harder to execute than along the blue.


I think the term "one up and one down" has two meanings when talking about
1-pocket. One is similar to the previous example with "one up table and one
down table." The other (1-pocket players tell me if I'm wrong, please) is
the type where you've positioned one ball on the foot rail, and another on
the side rail adjacent to your pocket (pocket A).

START(
%AC9V4%BI5Z6%EO1Q9%FU0N9%IK6R0%LJ5N2%MR5I4%NQ1Q1%OK6P2%PR5D0
%QA8[4
)END

I think this is also a strong strategy that, frankly, should be considered
beginner's strategy.


Fred
 
interesting post cornerman.... ill try to think of u next time i got a safety to play. the up and down theorie wasnt something a beginning player would know. love it, ill try it, and ill thank u
 
mjantti said:
Hmm. I see a free shot here and with this layout, I'm 80-90% sure to run out from here, and the remaining 10-20% comes from the first shot which leaves almost nothing to my opponent. Don't want to duck when there's a free shot. And I'm talking about playing a world beater here. Playing excessive safeties in 8-ball will get you into trouble sooner or later.

START(
%CD2H7%DI4H1%Ej7E6%HG7D2%LX0D6%OD3P2%Pm2I1%WK2I0%Xl7H5%YD4L6
%ZI3H8%[N4Z0%\C7M0%]D2D2%^H6G4
)END
Click to expand...

You are right. I should have removed that ball for clarity. The only thing I wanted to show was playing safe possibly getting ball in hand to run out the rest. Omit the 4
 
Clearing lanes for your balls is another thing that comes up quite often:

START(
%Fq0Y4%Ii7X3%Ln7U9%P\2V7%QA8[4%Wn5[0%Xj3X6%Yp0Z8%Zo3[3%[r6Z9
%\p6Z2%]r2S6%^q1X7
)END

As well as taking intentional fouls:

START(
%Bm8F1%D[0F9%FQ1Y9%HR1Z9%MG5W9%PN9R9%QA8[4%WI0W0%XN2S3%YC9[2
%ZF9X4
)END

Failed runouts by your opponent gives you time to position your balls for an easier runout by playing safe:

START(
%Dl0Z5%HF0V5%Iq7I9%J_4F1%KF4S2%Li0Y7%MU8X6%N\6S6%Oe9O4%PL9O0
%UK2L2%VC1P9%WG8R2%XL2O4%YC7W2%ZE9S8%[E0Z1%\C1X1%]D0Q4%^F8R6
)END
 
renard said:
Clearing lanes for your balls is another thing that comes up quite often:

START(
%Fq0Y4%Ii7X3%Ln7U9%P\2V7%QA8[4%Wn5[0%Xj3X6%Yp0Z8%Zo3[3%[r6Z9
%\p6Z2%]r2S6%^q1X7
)END

As well as taking intentional fouls:

START(
%Bm8F1%D[0F9%FQ1Y9%HR1Z9%MG5W9%PN9R9%QA8[4%WI0W0%XN2S3%YC9[2
%ZF9X4
)END

Failed runouts by your opponent gives you time to position your balls for an easier runout by playing safe:

START(
%Dl0Z5%HF0V5%Iq7I9%J_4F1%KF4S2%Li0Y7%MU8X6%N\6S6%Oe9O4%PL9O0
%UK2L2%VC1P9%WG8R2%XL2O4%YC7W2%ZE9S8%[E0Z1%\C1X1%]D0Q4%^F8R6
)END
Click to expand...
most educative post of today. :) thx renard. keep post like this coming.
 
cheesemouse said:
Colin,

I don't know about DVD's and such but having watched hundreds of games played by, perhaps one of the best, hottest, and most cranial 8ball players to come down the pipe, Dan Louie in the 80's. I noticed that his style/strategy was too create problems in the other set of balls as he ran his own set. He seemed to adjust his patterns to accomplish these problems in the other set even when his run could be done w/o moving any balls of the other set. It was just like buying insurance. Another uncanny thing he seemed to do when playing the safe game was to steer his opponent into shots that may, if poorly hit, open his problem balls. He did this mostly by leaving the cb on the rail and with a bad angle where all you could do was make a tough slow roll shot, the result being after hitting the shot it may not come with good position and missing the shot may open his balls.

Most of the American 8ball played at a high level up to this date has been played on bar box size tables. Some of the best players are no names. Now, with the Kevin tour putting the spotlight and money on big table 8Ball I think we will see these barbox genious coming out of the woodwork. If this tour really gets off the ground and the new bloods start winning their cards to play on the K tour it will be interesting indeed. The old guard better watchout...LOL
Click to expand...

Dan Louie is indeed a great player. He just sold his restaurant, I believe to play pool fulltime, probably because of the IPT. As a former world champion and national collegiate champion, he has a great chance of winning a spot. With steady practice til the 3rd tournament, he will be formidable. His health is good now (kidney transplant) and he is now inspired to play.
 
You don't always need to break up a cluster with the cueball.
shot#1
START(
%AQ2W5%EG0V8%GW7L6%HD7K8%KN6H1%MG4U6%PZ8W3%UD4Z8%VG5W7%WR7W8
%XZ0W1%YH2W9%ZP0W6%[H5R3%\G7T6
)END

shot#2
START(
%AN3Z0%EF4X9%GW7L6%HD7K8%KN6H1%ME3Y7%PZ8W3%UH2[2%VM3Z0%WC2[6
%XE3Z6%YF1Z9%ZG1[1%[C6W6%\D8Y1%]P1Y9%^Y9W5
)END

Relatively easy.
START(
%A^2J5%EO2O9%GM1D8%HW3V7%KY4E3%MN1D0%Pb2Q1%UF8I5%VL7E2%W_1L3
%Xa5P2%Y[0F3%Z]6I8%[Z9C3%\Z6E4%]P0D2%^X7E1
)END

And you must know this !! Shoot softly, the 1-ball has to be rolling (not sliding) when it hits your opponent's ball. The older the cloth, the easier it gets, because the top spin (rolling) will grip the cloth faster than on a new slippery cloth. (1-ball following "through" the 13-ball, difficult to illustrate.)

START(
%AM2T6%HD7K8%KR7D9%MD0[0%PU3O6%UN6S9%VT4O8%YE6Z1%ZL4U0%[B6[5
%\D8Z0%]B9\3%^D9Z5
)END

Important on this last shot:
-Shoot softly but not too softly, this is a touch shot with the right speed is the key
-1-ball must hit 13-ball full in the face.
-the closer the 1-ball is to the 13-ball, the more difficult this shot gets. If the 1-ball is closer, it doesn't have time to start rolling. From further away, it's easier to get the 1-ball rolling, even with a little bit harder stroke.

If the cloth is old, you can make it from here as well. I've once made it in a weekly 8-ball tournament from this situation and was actually quite surprised to have made it.

START(
%AM2T6%HD7K8%KR7D9%MF6Y3%PU2O4%UN6S9%VT4O8%YH0X4%ZL4U0%[C4[8
%\E7Y6%]B9\3%^G6X7
)END
 
breakup said:
Your above post is in the same mind set as this post but it was posted as I was writing it so please forgive any duplication of strategy.

One common end game problem

This solution has two steps. By doing it in two steps you have much more control over the outcome.

first try to get you opponent hooked behind your ball to get ball in hand without disturbing the rail cluster much ( chefjeff style safety). The first step may take a few innings.

START(
%Eg3Z3%HG7D2%Oe5Z4%Pf5V9%Wk7G1%Xl7H5%Yk3D5%Zk2F1%[i6D5%\i9D9
%]g9D8%^h6C6
)END

use your ball in hand shot to clear the cluster

START(
%Ef8Z3%HG7D2%O`7Z8%Ph2Z9%Wk7G1%Xl7H5%Yk3D5%Zk2F1%[i6D5%\i9D9
%]g9D8%^h6C6
)END

best case is to leave two rails or more kick but even if you do leave a one rail kick and he hits his ball odds are that you will still be left with an out.

Even early in the run when you have a bunch of balls on the table it can be a good way to end an inning rather than going for a lower percentage breakout.
Click to expand...
Breakup,

Your last diagram was perfect! Thank you! If the 5, CB, and 15 balls aren't lined up straight along the rail, not only you don't leave 'em a one-rail kick, *but you keep your opponent from bumping the 5 yet again against the 15 ball as an intentional foul*.

Beautiful subtleties!
 
mjantti said:
You don't always need to break up a cluster with the cueball.
shot#1
START(
%AQ2W5%EG0V8%GW7L6%HD7K8%KN6H1%MG4U6%PZ8W3%UD4Z8%VG5W7%WR7W8
%XZ0W1%YH2W9%ZP0W6%[H5R3%\G7T6
)END

shot#2
START(
%AN3Z0%EF4X9%GW7L6%HD7K8%KN6H1%ME3Y7%PZ8W3%UH2[2%VM3Z0%WC2[6
%XE3Z6%YF1Z9%ZG1[1%[C6W6%\D8Y1%]P1Y9%^Y9W5
)END

Relatively easy.
START(
%A^2J5%EO2O9%GM1D8%HW3V7%KY4E3%MN1D0%Pb2Q1%UF8I5%VL7E2%W_1L3
%Xa5P2%Y[0F3%Z]6I8%[Z9C3%\Z6E4%]P0D2%^X7E1
)END

And you must know this !! Shoot softly, the 1-ball has to be rolling (not sliding) when it hits your opponent's ball. The older the cloth, the easier it gets, because the top spin (rolling) will grip the cloth faster than on a new slippery cloth. (1-ball following "through" the 13-ball, difficult to illustrate.)

START(
%AM2T6%HD7K8%KR7D9%MD0[0%PU3O6%UN6S9%VT4O8%YE6Z1%ZL4U0%[B6[5
%\D8Z0%]B9\3%^D9Z5
)END

Important on this last shot:
-Shoot softly but not too softly, this is a touch shot with the right speed is the key
-1-ball must hit 13-ball full in the face.
-the closer the 1-ball is to the 13-ball, the more difficult this shot gets. If the 1-ball is closer, it doesn't have time to start rolling. From further away, it's easier to get the 1-ball rolling, even with a little bit harder stroke.

If the cloth is old, you can make it from here as well. I've once made it in a weekly 8-ball tournament from this situation and was actually quite surprised to have made it.

START(
%AM2T6%HD7K8%KR7D9%MF6Y3%PU2O4%UN6S9%VT4O8%YH0X4%ZL4U0%[C4[8
%\E7Y6%]B9\3%^G6X7
)END
Click to expand...

I like and use the last one as well mj. Also it can be added that for positional purposes you can also draw the cue ball. You still have to hit the 13 dead on and the draw will impart follow on the one ball. This work easier the closer the 13 is to the jaws of the pocket. The further out the more imparted follow you have to use.

Also you are correct on the cloth being a determining factor has I,ve seen balls die right in the jaws. Great post!
 
Rackmsuckr,
Back in the later 70's/early 80's when I was in that area playing and watching him play he and Rich G were top dogs but Dan had his number. I had the pleasure of getting smoked by both a few times...LOL Dan's 8ball game was just simply flawless. A real gentleman pool player. I hope he takes a swing at the IPT. Cheers.....

Nice to hear his health is better...
 
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