Safety Play

[JusticeNJ]

The Earl v. Johnny match was offensively spectacular.

However, late in the game the safety play reached equally amazing heights.

So I'm here asking advice from my AZ peers:

Do you prefer to chip balls out and hide the CB?
Or do you prefer to thin the stack?

Both Archer and Earl thinned the stack more than I thought I would see. It seemed like Earl had the opportunity to stick him on the ball just underneath the corner ball but decided to thin it instead. That safe is usually really tough to get out of.

So what say you? Thin it or chip 'em out? Or something else entirely?

 

[BigAL]

The Earl v. Johnny match was offensively spectacular.

However, late in the game the safety play reached equally amazing heights.

So I'm here asking advice from my AZ peers:

Do you prefer to chip balls out and hide the CB?
Or do you prefer to thin the stack?

Both Archer and Earl thinned the stack more than I thought I would see. It seemed like Earl had the opportunity to stick him on the ball just underneath the corner ball but decided to thin it instead. That safe is usually really tough to get out of.

So what say you? Thin it or chip 'em out? Or something else entirely?

Chip and hide is my preference, If you thin the stack there may be a good chance of leaving a dead ball and have your opponent on a long run while you sit in the chair and watch. Chipping for me is more tactical and allows the shooter to be a chess player and try to out smart his opponent the best he can.

 

[Ratta]

Hi there,

it always depends on the situation. First thought should be always to play a safety that sets your opponent under pressure! Sure those thin-cut-safeties are often seen. But also often i wonder why many players don t use the still frozen rack to put the cb frozen to the rack and let 1-2 balls run out of the rack to put the pressure higher for a re-safety.

jmho
a safety-war loving

Ingo

 

[Winston846]

It depends. You have to play what the table/balls give you. For me, it depends on where the cue ball is in relation to the stack. If I have an angle to go straight into the stack and freeze it there, that's what I will do and in my opinion is always preferable because if you can freeze the cueball and open up some balls, it makes it that much tougher for your opponent to not leave you a shot. If there's only a glancing angle to the stack, I'll either try to leave the cue ball froze to the rail behind the stack or froze down table on the head rail. Of course there's always the chance of leaving a dead ball, so if you're going to thin the stack, thin it as thinly as possible.

Edit: Also, Earl and Johnny thinning the stack more often means they were trying to leave each other down table as much as possible. A length of the table shot on 3 7/8" pockets certainly isn't a gimmie.

 

[Ron F]

Total Agreement

It depends. You have to play what the table/balls give you. For me, it depends on where the cue ball is in relation to the stack. If I have an angle to go straight into the stack and freeze it there, that's what I will do and in my opinion is always preferable because if you can freeze the cueball and open up some balls, it makes it that much tougher for your opponent to not leave you a shot. If there's only a glancing angle to the stack, I'll either try to leave the cue ball froze to the rail behind the stack or froze down table on the head rail. Of course there's always the chance of leaving a deal ball, so if you're going to thin the stack, thin it as thinly as possible.

Edit: Also, Earl and Johnny thinning the stack more often means they were trying to leave each other down table as much as possible. A length of the table shot on 3 7/8" pockets certainly isn't a gimmie.

I couldn't agree more. Taking what the table and balls give you from where the CB is resting in relation to the pile each shot is key - with freezing the CB to the stack and kicking out one or a few balls is most desirable.

As for your Edit, I watched the safety play between Earl and Johnny and that is exactly what they did. Freeze the CB to the stack if possible, then thinning a ball when freezing it wasn't possible. The rack eventually became somewhat loosened up and one of them elected to go uptable with the CB. They each then played several successive extremely thin shots on the stack and put whitey back up table. They did this without separating balls and without creating dead balls. Their ability to thin balls so slightly from such a great distance was most impressive - particularly for how old their eyes are. Doing it once can be accidental and make you look like a champ, but they both did it several times making it obvious that what they were doing was no accident. Some of the best safety play I've seen in a long time.

Two other things worth mentioning - the crowd seemed knowledgeable enough during the safety play to recognize what both players were doing was high quality and something very special to witness live, offering loud applause as each successive safety was executed with near perfection. Although not at the match, I got the feeling that the crowd was electrified and hanging on each safety to see who was going to make the first mistake and lose the battle. The second thing I noticed was that the crowd reacted equally to both players. Their applause wasn't louder for JA and muted for Earl.

I may be wrong, but it was when Earl attempted to make a difficult combination out of the pile from uptable after this safety play that one member of the audience applauded his miss. To me it was in poor taste to openly applaud his failure after the incredible safety battle they both just put on and Earl had a few words to say to him. That was the "I just sh!t all over myself and you cheer?" comment, or words to that effect. To me, the guy was a bum for doing that. Out of the hundreds, maybe thousands of matches I've watched live, on DVD and streaming, I've never seen a member of the audience deliberately cheer when a player missed a shot because of the miss. A delayed cheer for JA as he approached the table would have been understandable, but it was obvious the guy was applauding the miss rather than in support of JA getting back to the table.

Ron F

 

[AtLarge]

... Edit: Also, Earl and Johnny thinning the stack more often means they were trying to leave each other down table as much as possible. A length of the table shot on 3 7/8" pockets certainly isn't a gimmie.

The original plan was to have a tight-pocket table. The table they ended up using was not. In a post-match interview, Johnny commented on how the pockets were way too big.

 

[AtLarge]

... I may be wrong, but it was when Earl attempted to make a difficult combination out of the pile from uptable after this safety play that one member of the audience applauded his miss. To me it was in poor taste to openly applaud his failure after the incredible safety battle they both just put on and Earl had a few words to say to him. That was the "I just sh!t all over myself and you cheer?" comment, or words to that effect. To me, the guy was a bum for doing that. Out of the hundreds, maybe thousands of matches I've watched live, on DVD and streaming, I've never seen a member of the audience deliberately cheer when a player missed a shot because of the miss. ...

Here's a post from another thread indicating that the applause was not what you think: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2947890&postcount=7

 

[Ron F]

Thanks

Here's a post from another thread indicating that the applause was not what you think: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2947890&postcount=7

Good catch! And I trust ChicagoRJ's judgment. If the match is published to DVD and you watch the televised account, it looks very much like the gentleman broke out in solo uproarious applause in celebration of the ball not going. And Earl obviously felt the same by his pointed and curt reaction. Thanks for finding that and setting the record straight.

Ron F

 

[stevekur1]

I really wish i had known about the match that day, and i could of joined in on this covorsation...I guess i will have to wait for the dvd or for TVMike to post it up on Ustream !!!

 

[JusticeNJ]

I really wish i had known about the match that day, and i could of joined in on this covorsation...I guess i will have to wait for the dvd or for TVMike to post it up on Ustream !!!

You definitely should! The more input the better!

I just feel like some of the initial safety play before there were balls in play was different from what Sigel, for example, did in some Accu-Stats tapes.

I'm thinking of the finals of the 1992 US Open 14.1. There was a great safety battle between Sigel and Dallas West towards the end of the game and it seems like both players were keen on getting a ball in play rather than just trying to thin the rack and keep it intact.

It ended when Sigel just played a ridiculous safe and left Dallas in a horrible spot. He was frozen to the back of like 4 balls and there were balls all over the table. I'm pretty sure Dallas went for a dead ball and missed and Sigel got up and ran out - but I might be wrong - might have been another inning or two.