Safety Players

So how many safeties can you play in a row, and it still be considered legal? I thought there was a limit in BCA Rules.

I got stuck in a playoff set the other night that went well over an hour and a half long! We were very evenly matched, but I kept hooking her with shot safeties. She got frustrated and played 5 safeties in a row on me, hooking me pretty good too. I did make a comment after the 5th safety in a row, and then she went to playing shot safeties...which was cool with me. We were both so friggin' exhausted mentally at the end. Toughest match I have ever had to play...man or woman!

Lisa
 
How Many Safeties in a Row?

Well that's a great question.....I'm in my first session of APA league play (the only game in town) and just got my "Welcome Package" The Official rules of APA 8 and 9 Ball make no mention of this whatsoever. I'd be interested in the answer to this as well.
 
I think the biggest problem is early teachings

I think most folks "learned" that safety play was unsavory when they first started playing. We all had names for it and none of them were nice. Teach your teammates to play the less obvious safeties where nobody can be absolutely sure that they even played a safety. They will win many more games and enjoy being sneaky.

I still rarely play blatant safeties. It is more fun to leave people wondering if I am just lucky or deliberately hooking them.

Hu
 
Well, I just read through the BCA Rules, and no where does it address a limit on the # of safeties that can be played. I only play them when I absolutely have to, relying more on my shot safeties, but I guess I'll have to rethink that ethic.

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
So how many safeties can you play in a row, and it still be considered legal? I thought there was a limit in BCA Rules.

Lisa
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There is no limit to the number of safeties a player can play under BCA rules. The stalemated game rule may come into play depending on the game situation and the reason the players are playing safe. A stalemated game rule was added to 9 Ball and 14.1 this year.
 
Doesn't APA already penalize for not utilizing safeties?

If I understand the APA handicap system correctly, playing safe instead of going for the improbable run out is rewarded by keeping the rating as low as possible.

Say you have a player who wins half the time, and pockets 6-7 balls on his losses, because he never plays safe. Now consider another player, who also wins half his games, but plays safe when necessary. With such a strategy, significantly fewer balls are pocketed on the losing games, resulting in a lower average.

Even with no improvement to the individual player's game (seeing improvement is more likely), playing safe is smart team play, giving the player more games on the wire for his matches.
 
Mark Avlon said:
There is no limit to the number of safeties a player can play under BCA rules. The stalemated game rule may come into play depending on the game situation and the reason the players are playing safe. A stalemated game rule was added to 9 Ball and 14.1 this year.
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Thanks Mark....I will have to go back and re-read the stalemate rule. All I know is, that was THE longest frakkin' set I have played in my life!! Lol.

Lisa
 
Chris said:
If I understand the APA handicap system correctly, playing safe instead of going for the improbable run out is rewarded by keeping the rating as low as possible.

.
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Actually, I believe the opposite is true. One of the things the system considers is the number of innings per game/match. The more innings, the less likely you are to have your handicap move up. From what I understand, a safety pretty much cancels out an inning, which would lower your innings per game.
Steve
 
No better feeling than a Break and Run or a table run....

If you have balls tied up at your first turn at the table, you better be thinking "Which one am I gonna break out and play safe on" or you might not get back to the table again....

I love sticking someone with a good safety every chance I get, it just demotivates them and gets them out of stroke...

All good players play safe, most mediocre players don't.....
 
pooltchr said:
Actually, I believe the opposite is true. One of the things the system considers is the number of innings per game/match. The more innings, the less likely you are to have your handicap move up. From what I understand, a safety pretty much cancels out an inning, which would lower your innings per game.
Steve
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I see. I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification.
 
TheConArtist said:
stick but they never play safeties because they don't like to they think its not right to play safes,Any suggestions Thanks in Advance. Cole 'TheConArtist'
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Answer is there in their statements.``It is not right to play safes``. Different players have different mind sets about the meanings attached to safety play.To their minds ,playing safe is degrading themselves MORALLY or GEOGRAPHICALLY, or RACIALLY.I am not going to give the examples for two of those components I mentioned but I will give examples for geographical component-some used to refer to safety play in a belittling manner as `Buckaye pool or LA Pool`` and some thing like that.You can hear for yourself if u visit a redneck pool hall and play safties on the bar table.
Another thing to remember is: Unsolicited advise/coaching are not usually well received.I do understand that it was a team event you described and other members of the team can offer advise.
I do not offer advise unless I am asked and this is my safety.:cool:
 
ShootingArts said:
I think most folks "learned" that safety play was unsavory when they first started playing. We all had names for it and none of them were nice. Teach your teammates to play the less obvious safeties where nobody can be absolutely sure that they even played a safety. They will win many more games and enjoy being sneaky.

I still rarely play blatant safeties. It is more fun to leave people wondering if I am just lucky or deliberately hooking them.

Hu
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This is exactly what I do. I miss a ball on purpose and lock up a hole just to get the cue ball to a safe position. So everybody think I just rattled the shot and I get no safety marked. This means no one questions it, because a ball was moved to a hole in the process. :rolleyes:

Play safe, but play it smart. JMO
 
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APA is the Only Game in Town

I got on an APA league because I needed to compete. In APA slop counts and around here they call it Bush rules... They start you as a 4 coming in and if you lose your first match you are demoted to a 3....Well that's what happened to me.....first night of league I played like I had a board wedged up my ass and lost ..... but I've won every match since...making me 4:1 right now.
My point is that I'm not that good right now and all of my match wins haven't been pretty....but they're W's. Anyway if I can see your runout and you're a higher skill level than me (most are) and you play safety repeatedly.....you're not throwing me off my game ..... you're playing a losing strategy.....and it seems to be the way they play around here......at least the APA SL4's I play during league or at the bar
Banger
 
So if you miss on purpose, but it doesn't get counted as a safety, you are basically sandbagging. This is my biggest problem with the APA. When I play a safety, I turn to both score keepers and tell them that was defense. I will play obvious safeties with no attempt to hide it. My handicap will be what it will be. If it goes up, that just means I'm getting better. But my handicap is an honest reflection of my skill.
JMHO
Steve
 
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Thanks guys for replying to the thread, i am a good safety player, people know me for this i don't like to play safes and hate when someone plays them against me LOL j/k but i love a good safety game. Always play the smart shot even if you had a good run out even if it calls for a safe, let your opponent break things out, clear the table then miss then the table is yours to run. Again thanks guys, and donovan bro.
 
I'll Be Thinkin About This At League Tonight

This has been a great thread so far..... I'll be keeping it in mind during league tonight
 
pooltchr said:
So if you miss on purpose, but it doesn't get counted as a safety, you are basically sandbagging. This is my biggest problem with the APA. When I play a safety, I turn to both score keepers and tell them that was defense. I will play obvious safeties with no attempt to hide it. My handicap will be what it will be. If it goes up, that just means I'm getting better. But my handicap is an honest reflection of my skill.
JMHO
Steve
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OK, so are you telling us you tell both score keepers, right after you make the shot it is a defensive shot?
 
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Donovan said:
OK, so are you telling us you tell both score keepers, right after you make the shot it is a defensive shot?
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Yes, I will walk away from the table and say something like "mark that one down as defense" to the scorekeepers.
 
pooltchr said:
Yes, I will walk away from the table and say something like "mark that one down as defense" to the scorekeepers.
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Well, maybe it is a local thing then. Because I have never heard anyone say they just shot a defensive shot before, ever in APA. Now in BCA, when I play for a team in TX, we do that before we fire the shot.

I must ask you then, why don't you call the safety before you shoot it?
 
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Donovan said:
Well, maybe it is a local thing then. Because I have never heard anyone say they just shot a defensive shot before, ever in APA. Now in BCA, when I play for a team in TX, we do that before we fire the shot.

I must ask you then, why don't you call the safety before you shoot it?
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Because under APA rules, it isn't a safety if a ball goes in, intentional or not.

As it was explained to me, "defensive shots", which are what you mark in the APA scoresheet, are not exactly the same thing as "safeties". Instead, they are any shot where you didn't intend to make a ball, whether you were trying to hook the other player, trying to position the balls to your advantage, stalling to force the other player to address clusters you don't want to address, or whatever reason you have for not intending to make a ball.

The reason for this is the APA wants to know for its handicapping algorithm how often you make a ball when you intend to. It's not that they look at safeties as an indicator of skill level, it's that they look at missed shots as an indicator of skill level, and if you didn't intend to make a ball, your inning didn't end with a missed shot; otherwise, it did end with a missed shot.

And in this light, trying to disguise your defensive shots is definitely sandbagging, and the most wide-spread kind of sandbagging at that.

-Andrew
 
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