Safety with 15 balls in rack come back

BigDeal52

Don Pearce
Silver Member
Sometimes if a fella does not have a good breakout shot when the 14 pocketed balls have been re-racked he will call a safety and pocket the last 15th ball left on the table and leave the cue ball at the Rail in the Kitchen. Then all 15 balls are racked up and the other player has to play really tough safety. I like to go for the shot where I bank the ball off of the end rail into the bottom of the rack. I don't hit it too hard as I want to make sure I do not leave an easy shot for my opponent. I am hoping a ball out of the rack catches a rail but if it does not I do not feel too bad as I figure if he intentionally fouls to put me on two fouls it is still better than the situation I was in.

So I guess I am curious how other folks handle this situation and if they try my method is there any tricks to making my shot and consistently making a ball hit a rail or any other sort of discussion about this situation.
 
... I like to go for the shot where I bank the ball off of the end rail into the bottom of the rack. I don't hit it too hard as I want to make sure I do not leave an easy shot for my opponent. I am hoping a ball out of the rack catches a rail but if it does not I do not feel too bad as I figure if he intentionally fouls to put me on two fouls it is still better than the situation I was in. ...
That is pretty much the standard way to play it. Usually the speed is too slow to get a cushion. To avoid this play, the original players should leave the cue ball on the centerline of the table.
 
I tried this last weekend in the finals of a straight pool tournament... ended up hitting too hard, had the cue ball leak out and my opponent ran that rack out and a few more I believe. Oops!
 
I tried this last weekend in the finals of a straight pool tournament... ended up hitting too hard, had the cue ball leak out and my opponent ran that rack out and a few more I believe. Oops!

Always my fear. Sometimes I want to kind of go for it but that is probably, statistically speaking, a bad idea.

Were you playing in that Maine State straight pool tournament? I saw a little bit of the stream and saw some good players there.
 
I tried this last weekend in the finals of a straight pool tournament... ended up hitting too hard, had the cue ball leak out and my opponent ran that rack out and a few more I believe. Oops!

Sorry, just noticed you are from Fort Worth. Don't think you were in Maine. I am in Houston, do you have many 14.1 tournaments up there?
 
I'm only a C player, so no Maine for me! :p

We don't have many 14.1 tournaments here. I know there was one in Round Rock though. We had one for league people.
 
There is a lot more strategy to this shot than meets the eye IMO.

This is the standard shot, the thing is ... don't go into this shot hoping you may get a rail with one of the OBs. IMO the only thing this can accomplish is over hitting the shot. You have to look at this shot as the first in a series of shots to improve your position.

The first thing to realize is you have the worst of the situation period and the mission is to attempt to make it better from this point forward to get a better opportunity of playing a higher percentage safety, not get lucky and try to get away with something. It may come to trying to get lucky, but at least if it does, you'll be closer to the balls and have a higher percentage chance than you had when you were at the other end of the table.

Go into the shot simply to touch the back of the rack with the intention to take a scratch, not perhaps, definitely, and nothing else, other than to loosen a ball or two just enough to prevent your opponent from kicking the CB two rails back up the table where you were. He or she won't be able to do this since you have a ball or two sticking out. Not necessarily sticking out enough to shoot a shot, but sticking out enough to play a higher percentage safety from a loose ball. That's the extent of this first shot.

Remember, this shot only puts you on one scratch, insignificant and you will have more opportunities to make the position better now that you are closer to your work.

Avoid side spin as much as possible to help prevent the CB from twirling off the back row of balls and leak out into the open. If you are dead in the center of the rail on the head rail, slow roll the CB two cushions to behind the rack by going just before the side pocket, bottom rail and into the rack lightly. All tables play a bit different so one or two practice shots at that angle and you'll have the angle down.

Your opponent will most likely attempt some sort of safety, maybe make a mistake, give you that slightly better chance at a good safe, or take a scratch back by touching the CB behind the rack. If that happens,your next shot ( unless you have a higher percentage safety to play), if you are frozen to the balls, is to push the CB deeper into the back of the rack very subtly and gently, with yet another intentional scratch. Don't shoot it into the back, very lightly push it in there.

By pushing the CB a little deeper into the balls behind the rack will do a few things, confuse your opponent a little, disturb the balls just a very little, (let your opponent finish that mission) and, give you the side of a ball or two to rub off of and hit a cushion back into the balls on your next shot if your opponent just touches the CB and takes another foul. Should you be able to make a good safety or pocket a ball, all the better, now your opponent is on two.

Get your opponent on two and then take your best chances. Look for dead balls now that you have shuffled the rack a little. At least you've expended your options, you've gotten close to the balls, and ... your opponent is likely now on 2 scratches and they are under the gun.
 
That is pretty much the standard way to play it. Usually the speed is too slow to get a cushion. To avoid this play, the original players should leave the cue ball on the centerline of the table.

Exactly and when I'm left your safety suggestion, I'll often take an intentional foul, go 2-rails and try to nestle the cue-ball on the backside of the rack. My goal is to force my opponent to leave me a situation where I can play a legal safe.
 
I tried this last weekend in the finals of a straight pool tournament... ended up hitting too hard, had the cue ball leak out and my opponent ran that rack out and a few more I believe. Oops!

Yeah, you sorta have to approach it with two things in mind. First, pick a ball you want to hit. I usually aim for the second ball (not the corner or the center ball). As well, my speed is near minimal because there are four possible outcomes (order of preference):

1. Legal safety
2. Foul, no shot
3. Foul, no safety (unusual)
4. Legal, no safety (common)

You really want to focus on leaving no shot, even if it means fouling.
 
Exactly and when I'm left your safety suggestion, I'll often take an intentional foul, go 2-rails and try to nestle the cue-ball on the backside of the rack. My goal is to force my opponent to leave me a situation where I can play a legal safe.
This raises a question for me--as I'm just re-entering the 14.1 world, I'm realizing there's a number of situations where I'm tempted to just take an intentional foul, because playing a safety seems to me to be a lower percentage attempt (because of the high likelihood that I'll leave my opponent with a great opportunity). I'd rather take the -1 in those situations and leave my opponent with the same tough play, and maybe with any luck he'll screw up his safety attempt and let me go on a good run.

How prevalent are intentional fouls of this nature in 14.1?
 
This raises a question for me--as I'm just re-entering the 14.1 world, I'm realizing there's a number of situations where I'm tempted to just take an intentional foul, because playing a safety seems to me to be a lower percentage attempt (because of the high likelihood that I'll leave my opponent with a great opportunity). I'd rather take the -1 in those situations and leave my opponent with the same tough play, and maybe with any luck he'll screw up his safety attempt and let me go on a good run.

How prevalent are intentional fouls of this nature in 14.1?

Taking an intentional is usually reserved for times you're in a virtually impossible situation. Where you can't play a save without leaving a shot. Another time it may be advisable is when your opponent needs all the balls on the table to win. If you take 2 and he takes 2 back now he needs to get a breakshot and another ball to win.Just increases your chances slightly. But it's only good if you have a difficult safe and are worried about leaving a makeable shot.
 
Take the intentional foul and bury the cue ball in the back of the rack. Do not even try to avoid the foul it's only one point...
 
This raises a question for me--as I'm just re-entering the 14.1 world, I'm realizing there's a number of situations where I'm tempted to just take an intentional foul, because playing a safety seems to me to be a lower percentage attempt (because of the high likelihood that I'll leave my opponent with a great opportunity). I'd rather take the -1 in those situations and leave my opponent with the same tough play, and maybe with any luck he'll screw up his safety attempt and let me go on a good run.

How prevalent are intentional fouls of this nature in 14.1?

There's no harm in taking an intentional foul if you feel you can't come up with a good safe. Just remember you've decided to take the first foul, so you will get to three first also.

Giving him a chance to make a mistake is fine. Don't move the balls on your first foul however. Just tap the cue with your tip. Remember, you're giving your opponent the first opportunity to make a mistake, not you making the first mistake. So, don't move those balls.

Now, if he doesn't bite, and just taps the CB back at you, now you have to push that CB into the rack or make a subtle adjustment to the balls with something new in mind for your third shot.

If you're going on two fouls, be sure to put your opponent there before you play safe.
 
Giving him a chance to make a mistake is fine. Don't move the balls on your first foul however. Just tap the cue with your tip. Remember, you're giving your opponent the first opportunity to make a mistake, not you making the first mistake. So, don't move those balls.


What you're proposing is a flawed strategy. By taking the 1st foul you are already at a disadvantage. By doing nothing with that shot you are now at an even bigger disadvantage. When taking an intentional the goal isn't really to allow your opponent to make the 1st mistake. It's more about improving your position with an eye towards being able to play a legal safe within the next 2 innings.
A secondary goal should be to force him to make a decision. If you do nothing then he's going to do nothing right back. Now you've decreased your chances by 1 to do something that may improve your situation. Unless you're playing a complete novice (or idiot) then you'll come out on the short end almost every time. If he is going to make a mistake then give him 2 chances to do so instead of just 1.
You also don't necessarily want to take the 2nd foul** before playing safe. If, after taking the 1st and disturbing the balls somewhat, he puts you in a spot where you can play a good safe then that's the play. By just automatically taking the 2nd he now has an opportunity to push you someplace where you have a much more difficult safe to execute.
There are a few other considerations and subtleties but that's the gist of it.

**This would not apply if you are taking intentionals where it's obvious that the 1st person on 2 is going to be forced to play a very difficult shot. Then it would be correct to take 2 before shooting.
 
What you're proposing is a flawed strategy. By taking the 1st foul you are already at a disadvantage. By doing nothing with that shot you are now at an even bigger disadvantage. When taking an intentional the goal isn't really to allow your opponent to make the 1st mistake. It's more about improving your position with an eye towards being able to play a legal safe within the next 2 innings.
A secondary goal should be to force him to make a decision. If you do nothing then he's going to do nothing right back. Now you've decreased your chances by 1 to do something that may improve your situation. Unless you're playing a complete novice (or idiot) then you'll come out on the short end almost every time. If he is going to make a mistake then give him 2 chances to do so instead of just 1.
You also don't necessarily want to take the 2nd foul** before playing safe. If, after taking the 1st and disturbing the balls somewhat, he puts you in a spot where you can play a good safe then that's the play. By just automatically taking the 2nd he now has an opportunity to push you someplace where you have a much more difficult safe to execute.
There are a few other considerations and subtleties but that's the gist of it.

**This would not apply if you are taking intentionals where it's obvious that the 1st person on 2 is going to be forced to play a very difficult shot. Then it would be correct to take 2 before shooting.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree. If your position is such that there is nothing to shoot at, no good safety to take, then the best thing to do is see what your opponent may try to get away with. You're only on one foul, your next chance, should your opponent just tap the CB, will be that shot that changes the landscape in hopes of improving your position. How many times do you want to improve your position?

There is no reason to take that chance right off when you will have that same opportunity on your next foul. If you do it first, you may deaden up a ball and shoot yourself in the foot without ever knowing if your opponent would have screwed up.

So many times your opponent won't want to take a foul and will take a wild chance rather than touching the CB. I disagree with your strategy completely.
 
with. You're only on one foul, your next chance, should your opponent just tap the CB, will be that shot that changes the landscape in hopes of improving your position. How many times do you want to improve your position?

Actually I'd like 2 chances instead of just 1 as I stated in the previous post. Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems logical to me. Guess everybody will have to decide for themselves.
 
Actually I'd like 2 chances instead of just 1 as I stated in the previous post. Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems logical to me. Guess everybody will have to decide for themselves.

But, if you improve your chance on the first shot, you also improve your opponents chance of response, minus the opportunity to see if he takes a flyer on the original position. :)
 
Again, as I outlined in my OP the only time your opponent is going to take a flyer or make a mistake is if he's a complete novice or a total idiot.
 
Again, as I outlined in my OP the only time your opponent is going to take a flyer or make a mistake is if he's a complete novice or a total idiot.

Or thinks he can get you in worse position, or thinks he sees a dead ball, or thinks you think he is going to tap the CB so he wants to beat you to a move that doesn't exist, or plenty of other things that may be going through his mind.

It really doesn't matter to me, I'd rather find out, and see if a long shot mistake is made while I still have a second foul I could take. No biggie, I guess we just play differently.
 
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