Samsara Tip
- Thread starter lynx
- Start date
Are you sure the ferrule is perfectly flat?
Last edited:
RBC
Deceased
Well, for one stop scoring the tip or the ferrule. You really want both sides as flat and smooth as you can get them.
Also, I prefer loctite professional. It's not a thick as gel, and I believe it holds better.
Most likely, you're just not getting something perfectly flat.
On a side note, I did have an issue years ago with a local players break shaft. He kept losing tips and everything we did was perfect, so I asked him about how and when it happened. Apparently, with his new break shaft he was trying to crush them like Mike Dechaine and quite often would miss cue. I mean a hard miss cue. Well, that would loosen the tip and shortly after it would come off. Once I explained to him that with a really hard tip like a break tip a hard miss cue can cause some problems, he backed off just a little so he'd hit the ball square and never had another problem. A hard miss cue is similar to letting your cue fall and slap the floor with the side of your shaft. Quite often that will result in the tip flying across the room. Sometimes, it is what it is.
Royce
Also, I prefer loctite professional. It's not a thick as gel, and I believe it holds better.
Most likely, you're just not getting something perfectly flat.
On a side note, I did have an issue years ago with a local players break shaft. He kept losing tips and everything we did was perfect, so I asked him about how and when it happened. Apparently, with his new break shaft he was trying to crush them like Mike Dechaine and quite often would miss cue. I mean a hard miss cue. Well, that would loosen the tip and shortly after it would come off. Once I explained to him that with a really hard tip like a break tip a hard miss cue can cause some problems, he backed off just a little so he'd hit the ball square and never had another problem. A hard miss cue is similar to letting your cue fall and slap the floor with the side of your shaft. Quite often that will result in the tip flying across the room. Sometimes, it is what it is.
Royce
On an off center hit, the tip is "tiddly winking" off the ferrule.........
Get some 3/16 phenolic rod. Drill the newly installed tip dead center, about 1 inch deep with a 3/16 drill.
Use a good epoxy and glue the Phenolic rod in the hole to depth.
After the epoxy has set, trim off the excess phenolic rod and gently shape the tip as usual.
try it ... you will like it
Kim
Get some 3/16 phenolic rod. Drill the newly installed tip dead center, about 1 inch deep with a 3/16 drill.
Use a good epoxy and glue the Phenolic rod in the hole to depth.
After the epoxy has set, trim off the excess phenolic rod and gently shape the tip as usual.
try it ... you will like it
Kim
Instead of just having them pop off......... why not attempt to do something about it????
Keep and open mind to alternative methods of construction....
I had all ........ yes all ... of the white diamond tips I put on popped off in a week a month or 6 months........ the ferrules and tips were all flat as flat can be.... sanded coarse, sanded smooth ..... I used every glue possible .......... they all popped off................
Now I have some that have been on for 2 years and they stay on......
I'm not discounting anyone's tip install methods, but I will say that I have installed the following tips used for breaking only... around 50-60 phenolic tips, about 100 Water buffalo, 20 Ultraskin HH, 100 or so Lepros, 100 plus triangles and 100's of milkduds on bar cues that are used for breaking and shooting and only had about 10 pop off. I have installed 5 white diamonds recently and have had -0- pop off. I have done about 1500 - 2000 tips over all and I agree with Royce, why re-design or rebuild something so simple. Make both surfaces flat, That is the most important thing....then prime the tip with thin CA, spray some accelerator on it, then sand flat again, then glue tip to ferrule with Loctite gel and wait 10 minutes under constant pressure, then trim/shape and done. The only ones I have issues with are certain ferrules from china that nothing seems to stick to. I change those to LBM and no problem afterwards.
Now if the person that is using the cue breaks very strong, but miscues a lot, and therefore the tip comes off or chips/breaks pieces off of them, well that is on them after the first replacement, IMO. Their bad stroke is not the fault of the installer. I have found that a lot of people that break hard usually don't hit center tip (even though they swear they are) and end up hitting on the edge of the tip, causing the tip to either break a chunk off, or the whole tip coming off.
I do like Kim's tip ferrule combo, but it's a bit over kill when someone only asks for a simple break tip, IMO.
Dave
Now if the person that is using the cue breaks very strong, but miscues a lot, and therefore the tip comes off or chips/breaks pieces off of them, well that is on them after the first replacement, IMO. Their bad stroke is not the fault of the installer. I have found that a lot of people that break hard usually don't hit center tip (even though they swear they are) and end up hitting on the edge of the tip, causing the tip to either break a chunk off, or the whole tip coming off.
I do like Kim's tip ferrule combo, but it's a bit over kill when someone only asks for a simple break tip, IMO.
Dave
LOL.... is my method over kill???? you bet it is........... but I have never had one pop off ............. so it must be good................
Kim
I asked this question in the past and don't recall an answer:
Aren't you now breaking with phenolic instead of White Diamond?
I ask because I will not allow phenolic in my room for breaking.
I use the tenon-in-the-shaft method for phenolic ferrules and it works beautifully, and I think it gives the best jump performance.
It's a break shaft........... who can tell or who gives a shit how it "plays".
The tip and ferrule are as hard as a rock........ It breaks like a cannon...........
Kim
It works just fine........... do you really care if the white diamond fully contacts the cue ball or a tiny bit of phenolic touches it too..................
You cannot tell the difference............
Kim
I think the engineering is great here, my concern has always been that my cue balls don't get hammered by phenolic. It makes an obvious difference to the surface of the ball.
RBC
Deceased
Kim
While your redesign of the cue shaft does function to keep the tip from flying off, it also completely changes the design and characteristics of the cue shaft.
Now, you may not think much about that, but most cuemakers, who have designed and built break specific cues and shafts, do build them specifically for break shot performance. When you change or re-engineer the design, you completely destroy what the customer originally bought in the first place.
Whether you realize it or not, it does change your customers product. And it may be in a way that they didn't want.
I've been doing repairs for well over 20 years and since the beginning, I've always worked very hard to maintain a cues originality when I worked on it. I don't think that just changing a tip should change the way a cue is designed. Of course, you can do what you want, and I have no problem with that. But, when it comes to recommendations for others who come to this forum for advice, I think they deserve to see all the options. Whatever method they choose is up to them.
By the way, please don't do this modification to one of my break shafts. I'm sure I can find a solution that will keep the shafts integrity and still have the tip stay on.
Royce
While your redesign of the cue shaft does function to keep the tip from flying off, it also completely changes the design and characteristics of the cue shaft.
Now, you may not think much about that, but most cuemakers, who have designed and built break specific cues and shafts, do build them specifically for break shot performance. When you change or re-engineer the design, you completely destroy what the customer originally bought in the first place.
Whether you realize it or not, it does change your customers product. And it may be in a way that they didn't want.
I've been doing repairs for well over 20 years and since the beginning, I've always worked very hard to maintain a cues originality when I worked on it. I don't think that just changing a tip should change the way a cue is designed. Of course, you can do what you want, and I have no problem with that. But, when it comes to recommendations for others who come to this forum for advice, I think they deserve to see all the options. Whatever method they choose is up to them.
By the way, please don't do this modification to one of my break shafts. I'm sure I can find a solution that will keep the shafts integrity and still have the tip stay on.
Royce
Any reputable cue builder or good player would give a shit how any of his cues performed.
My comment was towards the issue of, the customer wants a break tip and expects to pay...$15... you method would, in My estimation, bring it closer to $25 - $30 for the work. That's not what they want to pay, and it's not what I would want to absorb. If this is only used on a cue built from the ground up....that's a different story. But the original poster is looking at this from a repair angle. Hope tis explains my approach on this.
Dave
My point was that a break cue is not a playing cue,,,,,,,,,, as a playing cue it would be terrible.......... but as a break cue it is fantastic.............
Kim