Sardo Tight Racks

[Jude Rosenstock]

Nope, never even seen the thing used except on TV. Just seems to me if the table is like new ( like in tournaments) and level then there is no reason to hammer or to slam the sardo down. Apparently one of the company owners agrees with that.
I have seen people beat the balls into the table when using a regular rack but that was because it was a very worn table and the rack would roll off in all directions.

Terry

Ok, then you don't understand me. I'm not saying they hammer the Sardo down. I'm saying they [the Sardo company] hammer indentations into the table with a template AND A HAMMER. They do this with new tables, with old tables, with tournament tables, with home tables. I've seen it done. I've used the rack. Really, if you're going to have an opinion on this thing, you should really see exactly what's involved. The Sardo company will not guarantee that their product will work unless the table is properly "trained". Trust me when I say this: Once that table is trained, you don't need anything to get a perfect rack. The balls just fall into the little white holes in the cloth.

 

[Tbeaux]

Ok, then you don't understand me. I'm not saying they hammer the Sardo down. I'm saying they [the Sardo company] hammer indentations into the table with a template AND A HAMMER. They do this with new tables, with old tables, with tournament tables, with home tables. I've seen it done. I've used the rack. Really, if you're going to have an opinion on this thing, you should really see exactly what's involved. The Sardo company will not guarantee that their product will work unless the table is properly "trained". Trust me when I say this: Once that table is trained, you don't need anything to get a perfect rack. The balls just fall into the little white holes in the cloth.

No, I do understand you and I'm sure you're right that that is what the instructions say to do. I'm saying if there is relatively new felt and the table is properly leveled there is no need to "train the table" and from what I overheard so does one of the owners (he was answering someones complaints about the rack). Personally I'll just keep using an old fashioned rack and tap a ball when needed.

Terry

 

[Egg McDogit]

seeing how the sardo worked, I always did wonder how it made any kind of difference

 

[mjantti]

Trust me when I say this: Once that table is trained, you don't need anything to get a perfect rack. The balls just fall into the little white holes in the cloth.

Agreed. You don't need Sardo rack, all you need is to buy (borrow) the template, make the holes in the cloth and off you go, you can rack with your hands and you don't need the (expensive) Sardo racking device. All this assuming you want to have holes in the cloth.

That's what they did at the EPC, for 9-ball tournament they made the holes with a template, then we were able to rack by hand without a triangle. The problem was that the experienced (Sardo experienced) players knew how to break, make a ball and play position on the break and there were ridiculous amount of runouts, including my opponent (Stepanov) who run out the set from 5-3 to 9-3 without any problems. He just had a perfect soft break and run out with ease every rack. Hohmann ran 7-out from 2-2 to 9-2, Weiselius was trailing 3-1 and ran 8 racks to win 9-3 among the others ! For the 32-single elimination players demanded to rack the old way without the holes to avoid the run-out fest and that's exactly what happened. And matches were much more enjoyable. This is the reason they don't use Sardo (holes) at the WPC. The break shot shouldn't be the major factor in deciding a match result.

 

[cmartor3]

You can check my garbage can. Seriously, why would you want one?

yeah jude or as i call you on the tri-state tour (mika) All you need is a wooden rack, I told Carmine his rack isn't as good as mine..

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

yeah jude or as i call you on the tri-state tour (mika) All you need is a wooden rack, I told Carmine his rack isn't as good as mine..

And I'm still embarrassed by that! Mika is a great great player. I simply was having a great day. I mean, I've played him a bunch of times. That guy's a monster!

Oh and I agree, Carmine needs serious weight!

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Agreed. You don't need Sardo rack, all you need is to buy (borrow) the template, make the holes in the cloth and off you go, you can rack with your hands and you don't need the (expensive) Sardo racking device. All this assuming you want to have holes in the cloth.

That's what they did at the EPC, for 9-ball tournament they made the holes with a template, then we were able to rack by hand without a triangle. The problem was that the experienced (Sardo experienced) players knew how to break, make a ball and play position on the break and there were ridiculous amount of runouts, including my opponent (Stepanov) who run out the set from 5-3 to 9-3 without any problems. He just had a perfect soft break and run out with ease every rack. Hohmann ran 7-out from 2-2 to 9-2, Weiselius was trailing 3-1 and ran 8 racks to win 9-3 among the others ! For the 32-single elimination players demanded to rack the old way without the holes to avoid the run-out fest and that's exactly what happened. And matches were much more enjoyable. This is the reason they don't use Sardo (holes) at the WPC. The break shot shouldn't be the major factor in deciding a match result.

Thanks Mjantti for contributing some common sense! YES, you can rack with your hands after that template has been used and as MJantti has pointed out, it makes breaking ridiculously easy. I've watched WPBA players run HUGE packages when the Sardo is being used and it's mildly disappointing when you're watching this short race to 7 turn into a two inning affair. The Sardo rack is probably the greatest negative influence on pool EVER. Really, it probably ranks higher than the jump cue.

 

[nfty9er]

To Jude and Mjanti

One, Two, Three, Four, lets start a flame war.
It sure is o.k. for you guys to have an opinion on the Sardo Tight Rack and whether it is benecial to pool but that opionion should not include misinformation and out and out lies. Where in the hell do you get the idea you put holes in the cloth for starters? Who in their right mind would invent a product that would require you to put a hole in your brand new Simonis or Championship cloth? Maybe you mistook the holes that show up in Simonis after a couple of months as holes for the rack. Use a hammer? Wow what an exageration that some people will take seriously. I agree that these racks are not great for the average pool room customers to use but they are fine for tournament play if you want consistent racks. Whether 9 ball players can beat the rack is not important. The rack is as advertised, perfect rack every time. Sure cannot comlain about it for one pocket or straight pool or 8 ball for that matter.
For the people who want to know the truth and not your lies or misconceptions let me enlighten the forum on how this rack works and is installed. It makes no difference the result or a result you might use to achieve the same affect if you can.
Do you know what the template is? You make it sound like a metal construction pariah. It is merely a thin cardboard shaped like a triangle with a hole in top to cover the table spot and two small holes at the bottom apex. You place the template over the spot, set a ball in hit, tap it lightly, then take a scripto pen(like Terrell Owens) and mark two small dots in the small holes. This will be where the rack pointers will be placed before every rack.
Remove the template and put two more balls behind the head ball and slightly tap in place again. This is what you call the "training". It is merely trying to get the "new" cloth to accept the balls in that spot every time and settle. Now rack the balls by place the rack exactly on the two dots, fill the rack and slightly press down on the handles. Wala a perfect rack. Now tell me where the holes come from? How much training was that? However it must be noted it is best to only start this process when you recover the table with new cloth as old cloth would have a lot of training from prior play and cloth already has its indiosyncrocies. Like it or not the rack does what it advertises and I do not see a lot of complaining about it at the major tournaments it is used in.
For as intelligent as you guys are I cannot believe you would put out such irresponsible information. I really think you owe the Sardo's an apology as they are great guys and after it was realized you could always make the corner ball in 9 ball with a soft break they tried to work to figure something out but they advertised a perfect product and maybe that was their mistake. I just suggest all tournaments alternate breaks or break from the box. I make the corner ball most of the time w/o the rack so big deal.
The rack is really fair for everybody if you are running break pots too. So it does have its advantages.
So take your hammers and holes comments and shove them.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

One, Two, Three, Four, lets start a flame war.
It sure is o.k. for you guys to have an opinion on the Sardo Tight Rack and whether it is benecial to pool but that opionion should not include misinformation and out and out lies. Where in the hell do you get the idea you put holes in the cloth for starters? Who in their right mind would invent a product that would require you to put a hole in your brand new Simonis or Championship cloth? Maybe you mistook the holes that show up in Simonis after a couple of months as holes for the rack. Use a hammer? Wow what an exageration that some people will take seriously. I agree that these racks are not great for the average pool room customers to use but they are fine for tournament play if you want consistent racks. Whether 9 ball players can beat the rack is not important. The rack is as advertised, perfect rack every time. Sure cannot comlain about it for one pocket or straight pool or 8 ball for that matter.
For the people who want to know the truth and not your lies or misconceptions let me enlighten the forum on how this rack works and is installed. It makes no difference the result or a result you might use to achieve the same affect if you can.
Do you know what the template is? You make it sound like a metal construction pariah. It is merely a thin cardboard shaped like a triangle with a hole in top to cover the table spot and two small holes at the bottom apex. You place the template over the spot, set a ball in hit, tap it lightly, then take a scripto pen(like Terrell Owens) and mark two small dots in the small holes. This will be where the rack pointers will be placed before every rack.
Remove the template and put two more balls behind the head ball and slightly tap in place again. This is what you call the "training". It is merely trying to get the "new" cloth to accept the balls in that spot every time and settle. Now rack the balls by place the rack exactly on the two dots, fill the rack and slightly press down on the handles. Wala a perfect rack. Now tell me where the holes come from? How much training was that? However it must be noted it is best to only start this process when you recover the table with new cloth as old cloth would have a lot of training from prior play and cloth already has its indiosyncrocies. Like it or not the rack does what it advertises and I do not see a lot of complaining about it at the major tournaments it is used in.
For as intelligent as you guys are I cannot believe you would put out such irresponsible information. I really think you owe the Sardo's an apology as they are great guys and after it was realized you could always make the corner ball in 9 ball with a soft break they tried to work to figure something out but they advertised a perfect product and maybe that was their mistake. I just suggest all tournaments alternate breaks or break from the box. I make the corner ball most of the time w/o the rack so big deal.
The rack is really fair for everybody if you are running break pots too. So it does have its advantages.
So take your hammers and holes comments and shove them.

You act as though I'm lying about what I saw, about what we've all seen. Dude, I don't know you but really, I'm telling the truth. I'm even willing to post this with MY REAL NAME unlike you, my critic. The training isn't light. It's hard as hell. It's as loud as a sledgehammer against concrete and do you wanna know how I know? It's because I've heard BOTH! The holes I saw were not even a day old and prior to tournament play, not after. Sardo has taken a product that normally costs $3 and turned it into something that costs over $100. Really, it's that simple. If they were that good, every serious room in the country would have one on their head-table ALL THE TIME but that's simply not the case.

Go ahead.. If they're so good, how come the only people who are using them are tournaments that are funded by him? Show me a room that routinely uses Sardo.

 

[nfty9er]

You are so wrong, and no common sense

You act as though I'm lying about what I saw, about what we've all seen. Dude, I don't know you but really, I'm telling the truth. I'm even willing to post this with MY REAL NAME unlike you, my critic. The training isn't light. It's hard as hell. It's as loud as a sledgehammer against concrete and do you wanna know how I know? It's because I've heard BOTH! The holes I saw were not even a day old and prior to tournament play, not after. Sardo has taken a product that normally costs $3 and turned it into something that costs over $100. Really, it's that simple. If they were that good, every serious room in the country would have one on their head-table ALL THE TIME but that's simply not the case.

Go ahead.. If they're so good, how come the only people who are using them are tournaments that are funded by him? Show me a room that routinely uses Sardo.

Did you not read, do you not comprehend. First who would invent something you talk about? Crazy. Yeh 3 bucks, your nuts, it sounds to me you never even saw one. It is not important whether they are that good or not, theydo what they were advertised to do. I said most pool rooms do not use them because regular customers who have no idea what they are doing would ruin them. I agreed they can be a hastle. Those tournaments funded by him? Are you nuts. He might help sponsor but thats for advertising. He pays. Now do you want to know how I know? You really don't think I would bring this up without first hand knowledge, a lot more than you do. Boy did you fall into that trap. For you information and I don't hide from anybody. You see my signature? straight shooter. My name is Dick Cady,. I have owned a pool room for 30 years. The last 25 at Fast Eddys Billiards in California. I have 3 sardo racks. I have used them on and off. I have never had a hole in my cloth. I have never hammered anything. My racks have always worked perfectly for what they were made. Do you want me to send you the installation tape that is sent out with the product? You are way off base. Now do you want to dispute my claim. Make your apologies.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Did you not read, do you not comprehend. First who would invent something you talk about? Crazy. Yeh 3 bucks, your nuts, it sounds to me you never even saw one. It is not important whether they are that good or not, theydo what they were advertised to do. I said most pool rooms do not use them because regular customers who have no idea what they are doing would ruin them. I agreed they can be a hastle. Those tournaments funded by him? Are you nuts. He might help sponsor but thats for advertising. He pays. Now do you want to know how I know? You really don't think I would bring this up without first hand knowledge, a lot more than you do. Boy did you fall into that trap. For you information and I don't hide from anybody. You see my signature? straight shooter. My name is Dick Cady,. I have owned a pool room for 30 years. The last 25 at Fast Eddys Billiards in California. I have 3 sardo racks. I have used them on and off. I have never had a hole in my cloth. I have never hammered anything. My racks have always worked perfectly for what they were made. Do you want me to send you the installation tape that is sent out with the product? You are way off base. Now do you want to dispute my claim. Make your apologies.

I absolutely REFUSE to make any apologies. I have my own experiences to base my opinions on. I was working a room that had six tables trained for a professional event. Listening to the hammering was as painful to listen to as a baby crying. I WAS MORE THAN 100 FEET AWAY AND HEARD THIS! I went over and inspected the tables immediately after they were finished. These tables were just clothed and each had 9 white marks that were deeper than anything I had ever seen. A week after the event, balls would still fall into divots they created.

Listen, I'm serious when I say this. I'm not making this stuff up. Your experiences might be different than mine but that doesn't automatically negate the fact that it did happen. You say it works, you have every right to continue using it. In fairness to what you have to say, my opinion remains. The way the product was introduced to me makes me believe that it is no good for the sport of pool. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

This is a website by a happy Sardo customer. Note his criticism is fairly consistent with mine even though he likes the product.

http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/billiards.htm

 

[Williebetmore]

You act as though I'm lying about what I saw, about what we've all seen. QUOTE]

Jude,
I guess we haven't "all" seen it. I have a Sardo (don't use it on my current table because I would have to rack the balls all the time - my friends aren't smart enough to learn how ). There is NO MENTION of hammering in the instructions. They do discuss "training the table", but that is just racking the balls 15 times using the normal technique, starting with the 1 ball, and adding a ball each time. The template only has a hole for the apex ball, and 2 little holes as indicator marks. No mention is made of hammering. Perhaps the guys you saw had their own technique (sounds rather brutal). I played on a "Sardo table" for about 2 years; absolutely no divots, craters, or unevenness of any kind (even for the slow rollers, and we play 14.1) - but that was a private table where both players knew exactly how to use it. FWIW.

 

[nfty9er]

Head for high ground, the b.s. is so bad

I absolutely REFUSE to make any apologies. I have my own experiences to base my opinions on. I was working a room that had six tables trained for a professional event. Listening to the hammering was as painful to listen to as a baby crying. I WAS MORE THAN 100 FEET AWAY AND HEARD THIS! I went over and inspected the tables immediately after they were finished. These tables were just clothed and each had 9 white marks that were deeper than anything I had ever seen. A week after the event, balls would still fall into divots they created.

Listen, I'm serious when I say this. I'm not making this stuff up. Your experiences might be different than mine but that doesn't automatically negate the fact that it did happen. You say it works, you have every right to continue using it. In fairness to what you have to say, my opinion remains. The way the product was introduced to me makes me believe that it is no good for the sport of pool. I'll leave it at that.

They were reclothing the tables maybe? You are unbelievable, I guess it is ego, you do not want to admit that what u are saying is bull. There is no hammering you ignoramous. I do not know what you heard or could hear from 100 ft. away setting up a Sardo rack. You use a pen not a hammer. Can you comprehend. If anybody was hammering they had no instructions. Common sense. Has nothing to do with my opinion. Have you set one up? Obviously not. It sounds to me like someone thought you pounded the pointers into the cloth and if thats what they did you still could not hear much. Wow you are a piece of work on this subject of which you know nothing. Where in that article you refer to does the guy say he had to put holes in his cloth? Where did it say he had to use a hammer? He was requred to tap a couple of balls. He obviously had no tape that shows the instructions and how easy it is to do and takes a very few minutes. He did not even have the paper template. No wonder he was critical, he shouild have sent it back for that price.
I don't give a shit whether you like the rack or not or is it important whether I do or not, you were talking about holes and hammers. That was ignorant. My experience with it is only as it should be if instructions are followed, like everybody elses. You didn't even own one, set up one or evidentlly use one but your opinion is all encompassing and you want this forum to believe you.
READ MY LIPS: THE SARDO RACK DOES NOT PUT HOLES IN YOUR CLOTH.
REPEAT AFTER ME: THE SARDO RACK DOES NOT PUT HOLES IN YOUR CLOTH. Admit it, fess up.

 

[Tablemechanic]

Sardo

I cover the tables at Hard Times in Bellflower, Ca. We use the Sardo on tables 1 and 6 in our tournament room. I recover the tables every 6 months and set the Sardo racks. You mark the alignment marks on the table in pen then you set the 1 ball. You do not tap in any other balls in the rack. What the rack does is make you rack the balls in the same spot every time. You train the table by using the rack a few times. I will rerack the balls 10-15 times at the start. They use to tap all the balls in but now they do not. I talk to Lou and Carmine Sardo all the time and they keep me up to date on the new info.

I can use the Sardo and give you a good rack in 10 seconds. I have watched people spend 10 minutes with a regular rack and still not be able to get it frozen.

When I recover other tables in the tournament room, after about a week of play with a regular rack. You can not get a full frozen rack, way to much 9 ball being played with people with big breaks. Also the tables get divots in them from racking with a regular rack. You just do not notice them because they are elongated from people racking in differnt places. Also people tap in the balls when they can not freeze up the rack. That makes divots in the table to.

Also if you rack a perfect rack, balls go flying in anyways.

We have to deal with Morro and King Kong always tring to give you bad racks.
It is amazing on how many people who have been playing pool for years that do not know how to at least freeze up the first three balls when they rack.

The pros know how to play shape off the break when they figure out how the table is playing so it does not really mater.

All tournaments should be rack your own so there would be no complaints and if you do not check the rack you only have yourself to blame.

Steve

 

[LowEnglish]

They were reclothing the tables maybe? You are unbelievable, I guess it is ego, you do not want to admit that what u are saying is bull. There is no hammering you ignoramous. I do not know what you heard or could hear from 100 ft. away setting up a Sardo rack. You use a pen not a hammer. Can you comprehend. If anybody was hammering they had no instructions. Common sense. Has nothing to do with my opinion. Have you set one up? Obviously not. It sounds to me like someone thought you pounded the pointers into the cloth and if thats what they did you still could not hear much. Wow you are a piece of work on this subject of which you know nothing. Where in that article you refer to does the guy say he had to put holes in his cloth? Where did it say he had to use a hammer? He was requred to tap a couple of balls. He obviously had no tape that shows the instructions and how easy it is to do and takes a very few minutes. He did not even have the paper template. No wonder he was critical, he shouild have sent it back for that price.
I don't give a shit whether you like the rack or not or is it important whether I do or not, you were talking about holes and hammers. That was ignorant. My experience with it is only as it should be if instructions are followed, like everybody elses. You didn't even own one, set up one or evidentlly use one but your opinion is all encompassing and you want this forum to believe you.
READ MY LIPS: THE SARDO RACK DOES NOT PUT HOLES IN YOUR CLOTH.
REPEAT AFTER ME: THE SARDO RACK DOES NOT PUT HOLES IN YOUR CLOTH. Admit it, fess up.

I wouldnt say holes, but the sardo rack puts little divots in the cloth where the balls are racked. When you use the sardo, you are pressing the balls into the cloth, and they make tiny little divots that they settle into giving a perfect rack. After using the sardo rack a few times you don't even have to use it anymore, you can just place the balls in the little divots.

 

[wayne]

I cover the tables at Hard Times in Bellflower, Ca. We use the Sardo on tables 1 and 6 in our tournament room. I recover the tables every 6 months and set the Sardo racks. You mark the alignment marks on the table in pen then you set the 1 ball. You do not tap in any other balls in the rack. What the rack does is make you rack the balls in the same spot every time. You train the table by using the rack a few times. I will rerack the balls 10-15 times at the start. They use to tap all the balls in but now they do not. I talk to Lou and Carmine Sardo all the time and they keep me up to date on the new info.

I can use the Sardo and give you a good rack in 10 seconds. I have watched people spend 10 minutes with a regular rack and still not be able to get it frozen.

When I recover other tables in the tournament room, after about a week of play with a regular rack. You can not get a full frozen rack, way to much 9 ball being played with people with big breaks. Also the tables get divots in them from racking with a regular rack. You just do not notice them because they are elongated from people racking in differnt places. Also people tap in the balls when they can not freeze up the rack. That makes divots in the table to.

Also if you rack a perfect rack, balls go flying in anyways.

We have to deal with Morro and King Kong always tring to give you bad racks.
It is amazing on how many people who have been playing pool for years that do not know how to at least freeze up the first three balls when they rack.

The pros know how to play shape off the break when they figure out how the table is playing so it does not really mater.

All tournaments should be rack your own so there would be no complaints and if you do not check the rack you only have yourself to blame.

Steve

It is hard to believe the lies that some spread on here about the rack. It is nice that you posted and just about anyone who has played or has knowledge of the tournament room at HardTimes in Bellflower would take your word as gold. Since there has been more top flight action there than maybe anywhere else in the world and the tables play perfect or as close to perfect as possible.

Hammers, holes and craters!!!! The guy saying that this is the way the Sardo rack works must have seen the table mechanic from hell training the table. What a crock.

I have played hundreds of times on tables that had been trained with the Sardo rack and I have NEVER experienced holes or craters. I have played in Derby City and have watched Carmine train a table and it is a fairly simple process with none of the hammers and holes and craters being discussed.

I have played King Kong many times at HardTimes and the Sardo rack has been my savior because I get a good rack from him everytime LOL.

Wayne

 

[LastTwo]

I cover the tables at Hard Times in Bellflower, Ca.

I thought Ernesto does that

 

[Tablemechanic]

Hard Times Table

I have been doing the tables at Hard Times Bellflower for about 4 years.

A good rack and King Kong in the same sentence, something must be wrong.

Steve

 

[catscradle]

..., but what the heck is 100 quid ...

Well, you've heard of a giant squid, this is the opposite a tiny squid. So small there isn't even room for the 's'.