Saw a cheat, kept my mouth shut.

mullyman

mullyman

Hung Like a Gnat!
Silver Member
Ok, I made this layout on a 3C table diagram and when I posted it up here it turned into a pool table. What's the deal with that? Anyway, imagine this is a 3 cushion table and you are the 2 ball.

Right now we're having a league tournament for the members of the pool room. we have 15 players that will all play each other over the course of a month. We do this about 4 times a year.

Last night I was watching a match between 2 guys. One of them has a handicap of 21 and the other is 14. The 14 guy had this shot and this is how he went about it. The 2 ball went 4 cushions, hit the red (3), but didn't hit the yellow (1). His opponent was sitting behind him and couldn't see the shot. He heard the click of the balls and said "One" (we call out each scored shot here). The guy shooting was standing right over the shot so I know damn well he saw that it didn't make contact with that yellow. I was sitting about 5-6 feet from the table looking directly at it. He did not hit that yellow. But, he stayed at the table, made one more shot and won the match.

Now, I've been told that you do not interfere with a match. I have really good eyesight and can read a newspaper from 10 feet away easily. There have been times watching guys just playing around that I see the red move as the cue ball just brushes it and both players didn't see it. I told them it was good, they both accepted it, because they know how good my eyes are, but I was also told that I shouldn't say anything because it's not my match. Especially if it's tournament play.

Anyway, if I see a cheat, do I stay out of it? I kept my mouth shut but I felt really bad for the guy that lost and felt a little pissed at the guy that didn't own up to it. I played this guy a week or so ago for our match. We were in the last inning and I only needed one point to win. Last chance, both barrels cocked, pissing in the wind, I went for a plus 2 shot. I was standing directly over the 2nd ball and saw and heard the double hit, once going in and once coming off the third rail. He thought I made it and started to congratulate me but I told him that it was a bad hit. He actually argued with me. No way though, it was bad. I heard the click/click sound. So, I guess because of me calling a bad on hit on myself against him and then seeing him keep shooting after not making a clean hit it really got under my skin.

Should I have said something?
MULLY


CueTable Help

 
I read this the other day expecting to see some replies by now, obviously none as of yet.

Mully, you mentioned the shot you had against the "14" previously, where you didn't make your point, and had to argue with him insisting it was bad (I commend you for that btw, I have done that myself), is it possible that he thought his point was good? I know you said he was standing right over the shot, and it was clear he didn't make the point, but maybe he thought he saw the (one ball) move?

Just playing devils advocate here, it's a tough call when you're just the spectator, whether to open your mouth or not. I think it really depends on how comfortable you feel about the situation. If you would have said something, would the the 14 have erupted? Since his opponent was directly behind him, speaking for myself here, I wouldn't have known if my opponent could have been peeking around to get a view to ensure it was a point. And as I mention that, if it were a close match, I sure would have moved to get a look at that point, just to remove any doubt.

I guess what I'm saying is, you were probably right not saying anything, but his opponent should have been a bit more attentive and taken a gander at that point as it was approaching.

The bright side I guess: the "14" obviously advanced winning that match, and you know now to keep an eye on him if you play vs him in the future. Wouldn't hurt to mention what you saw to the fella that lost (if you haven't already), so he can be aware in the future as well.

Kevin
 
Unless the players ask you for assistance, it's better to stay quiet and watch the match. I have learned this the hard way.....
 
I wouldn't say anything as a spectator. You aren't a referee, and nothing really good will come of you saying anything.

Now maybe they ask you as a spectator if you thought it moved (I've had this happen sometimes). It can even be a little odd in that situation, but I usually answer honestly. Best not to get involved if you aren't refereeing or playing in the match.

Sometimes the ball can move so little that from 10 feet away you couldn't see it, but if you were up close on the balls you can see it. (little nudge where the ball that was contacted doesn't even really move, just rolls and rolls back, like less than a milimetre). So the guy you were watching might not be a cheat.
 
OneArmed said:
Sometimes the ball can move so little that from 10 feet away you couldn't see it, but if you were up close on the balls you can see it. (little nudge where the ball that was contacted doesn't even really move, just rolls and rolls back, like less than a milimetre). So the guy you were watching might not be a cheat.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if it had been that close I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. It wasn't anywhere near close enough to have even brushed it though. It hit the red on the outside and didn't get anywhere near making a hit on the yellow. The messed up thing is that I almost said "Oooh, that was close" but before I could say anything the other guy said "ONE" so I didn't let it out. The shooter did have a slight, split second hesitation before moving on. He knows damn well he didn't score that shot. He did that to me once too. It was one of those like I had against him where the ball hits the ball just before it hits the rail and you hear that clickclick sound. I heard it clear as day, he said it was a good hit, I let it go. We were just playing for play that time so I didn't really care. I don't like arguing with people, my temper gets heated up and only bad things can come from it so I tend to let things slide.

I was just wondering if it was proper etiquette to say something or stay out of it. It was a tournament match, but like you guys said, I'm not an official ref. I guess I can only be a sideline commentator. When they miss I can say "ooooh, almost" or if it's a brush I can say "ooooh, good shot!" hehe!!
MULLY
 
tiger37373 said:
Unless the players ask you for assistance, it's better to stay quiet and watch the match. I have learned this the hard way.....
Click to expand...

Hey Jamie,

Was that the game that I was playing?

I remember that. When you opened your mouth to help out, I immediately reacted that you were to stay out of it. I reacted a little bit too quickly, actually. It was just a reaction, I didn't think about it before I spoke. I still feel bad about that. Sorry again.

The unwritten rule is that if you are a spectator, you are NOT the referee and therefore shouldn't say a word (especially in a tournament). I have played matches where my opponent has a very close shot and the opponent's FRIENDS all start telling me that the shot was good, even though I didn't see the balls touch. My opponent did NOT see the balls touch, he was unsure, but he looked to his friends for the answer. That is NOT the way it is supposed to go.

If my opponent insisted that the shot made, then I would sit down and accept it (unless I already had previous information that my opponent is a cheat). But if my opponent is unsure, then my opponent should sit down and not take the point. Only take the point when you are 100% certain of it. No questions asked.

If my opponent insists that it made and I insist that it did not make (this has happened to me just one time), then we ask someone to make the call for whom we both agree to abide by their decision. If no one saw the shot or we can't agree on an unbiased person, then we simply flip a coin.

Of course, this can all be avoided if both players have some integrity. Or a referee.
 
Saw a cheat

tiger37373 said:
Unless the players ask you for assistance, it's better to stay quiet and watch the match. I have learned this the hard way.....
Click to expand...

I was playing in a tournament and my opponent kept running off every time it was my shot to play the jukebox or himself. I waited on him the first couple of times then I just went ahead and shot , I ran out a rack and when he came back one of the bystanders told him I made a bad hit during the run. It started a giant commotion and the guy for 10 years after had something bad to say about me. It's up to the people playing to pay attention. If they don't whatever happens is their problem. my nickels worth {inflation}.
 
I would agree with the previous replies to keep your mouth shut until you have been asked for your perspective. Then again, it really is that guys job to make sure if the shot was good, especially if money is on the line. I have made many friends in pool that I can trust their integrity, but I don't play money games much so maybe its easier for me to trust my opponents.

But I would stay quiet unless someone asked me what I saw.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top