Schuler Cue Out of Business??

[bandido]

The point is how low can you go?
China is setting the level low and for others to compete they must go lower by wages ,benefits or working conditions! IE S.E Asia etc.

Asia/SE Asia is a continent made up of agricultural countries so "fresh" food here is a lot cheaper than processed food. Real Estate is cheaper in most of these countries. Clothing is cheaper because the raw materials are grown here.
Basic essentials here are cheaper thus the lower wages. If not for the cost of fuel to manufacture and transport these goods then other continents too can probably enjoy the lower prices. Oh I forgot, the other continent's local importer also has to mark-up to maintain a higher standard of living.

Somehow, labour in the 1st World countries are so top-heavy. Like I wrote in my earlier post. If the unemployed ranks (government subsidized or otherwise) took the jobs that are made available to the illegal immigrants there then the government has a lot less to worry about and spend for. Spending that can otherwise be used on essential stuff that can help the industrial sector. You know, spending on performing assets and not on non-performing assets can only lead to progress.

 

[fish on]

Ha ha, that's rich. I am here to take advantage of the poor people of China?

And how exactly do I do that? I trade them money for their labor which they then trade for things they want and need.

My customers give me money for top quality goods which they can acquire from me at a lower cost to them because my overall cost is lower to produce those goods.

My customer saves money, receives a thing of value that they want and the money I get is recycled into the world economy by purchasing supplies and paying people.

The people I pay then have a better life than if there were no demand for my goods and they were forced to live a subsistence existence.

On a very personal level my tooler Zhen Hai Lee came from a very very very poor town where he and his family were living hand to mouth financially. He scrimped and saved and taught himself how to tool leather through internet tutorials and began making small wallets and belts and the like and selling them through China's version of Ebay, called TaoBao.

I contacted him more than a year and a half ago and offered him work doing our tooling and offered to pay a top price for it. Much more per square foot than he would get making his small items. He started doing contract work for me. Eventually I offered him a full time position and a handsome salary and he moved here.

About six months after he got here he was talking to my mother-in-law and said that he was so grateful that I offered him this job because he feared that the criminal element in his home town was going to draw him in and that he would turn to crime to support his family.

Now, he makes a great living working for me during the day, his son and wife are safe and happy, through me he has access to better tools and supplies and he has learned much more about design and tooling through access to books and tapes and advice from toolers around the world. Because of that his own goods have improved to the point that they are not just pattern copies of what everyone else is doing but instead are original pieces with practical design that fetch much higher prices than what he was doing before.

So forgive me if I tell you that you are completely full of crap with your ignorant accusations. You sit in your ivory tower, made well off by your union job and have the luxury to work or not work and you presume to tell me what I am doing when I am living and working with the people I deal with here in China.

Maybe you would prefer that the Chinese stay poor and ignorant and the only thing that they can believe in is that they must continue to build weapons to fight the evil capitalists. Maybe you would prefer that the only imports we have to worry about is incoming nuclear rockets.

Now I get it you have a hidden agenda to protect your investment!
JBCases you even use it in your screen name your always thinking how can I get free advertising on AZ
What bugs you about me is I am sincere and have convictions and believe people should not be abused by others whether counties or corporations.

You throw these shots about unions(banned in China) or my working at Home Depot part time
I like to help people that is me!
Mostly minor things but I was a large job (multi-million Dollar job supervisor)
I wanted to make money for company along with good working conditions for employees and I did both successfully for 35 years using my brain!

By the way I do make a high wage that I did not expect in retail!

How much in U.S. dollars do you pay this highly skilled craftsman for his
skills?
How much did you clear on the case that you MSRP'd for $1045 on the AZ thread you advertised on for free ?
How much less in your adopted (for now ) Country China is the cost compared to your former country to make that case?
Let's man up and tell it like it is!
your low cost of living does not reflect your prices you are charging !
You are protecting your life of Riley here on AZ !

 

[JB Cases]

Now I get it you have a hidden agenda to protect your investment!
How much in U.S. dollars do you pay this highly skilled craftsman for his
skills?
How much did you clear on the case that you MSRP'd on the AZ thread you advertised onfor free ?
How much less in your adopted (for now ) Country China is the cost compared to your former country to make that case?
Let's man up and tell it like it is!
The low cost of living does not reflect your prices you are charging !
You are protecting your life of riley here on AZ !

Golly my agenda must be well hidden then because I have been putting myself under the microscope on this issue for 18 years now. Given that I have orders for up to eight months out I guess that people appreciate the level of product they get for the money they choose to spend.

What does it matter to you what I cleared? Show me how much actual work you did in your $25 an hour union protected job? I find it hilarious that you are so predictable as to fall back on this red herring. I love the fact that you are so concerned about what my profit margin is yet you favor protectionist laws that insure insane profit margins (along with high prices for consumers) for those being protected.

You can find out anywhere on the net what the average percentage of MSRP that Chinese production is anywhere on the net. On average it's about 15-20% of the retail price. My cost percentage is much higher than that due to the fact that I pay much more in wages and pay a premium for top quality materials in low quantities.

When are you going to start questioning the fairness in the USA? How about all the people living on the edge of hunger in the USA because they can't get a living wage? When are you going to take your own to task for the fact that they earn unfair wages for their labor while their fellow citizens are just one bout of the flu away from homelessness? Would you give up $10 of your $25 an hour to raise someone else's wage from $5 to $15? After all you seem to be so concerned about the poor Chinese even as you in the next breath want to take away the little opportunity that they do have. So what are you prepared to do?

Ingvar Kamprad said "profit is resources". I am positive that you have no idea what this means since I am sure you didn't read the IKEA story. IKEA gets all kinds of criticism for having their goods produced in low wage countries. Kamprad said that if they didn't produce in low wage countries then they wouldn't have enough profit to be influential on a world stage. Being big they can and do impose certain working standards on their suppliers which they can enforce. So with profit comes the resources to improve the standard of living for the people who produce the goods that IKEA sells to grateful Western consumers who appreciate the great design coupled with low prices.

What did I make on the case? I made enough to stay in business and keep improving the lives of the people around me.

 

[fish on]

Asia/SE Asia is a continent made up of agricultural countries so "fresh" food here is a lot cheaper than processed food. Real Estate is cheaper in most of these countries. Clothing is cheaper because the raw materials are grown here.
Basic essentials here are cheaper thus the lower wages. If not for the cost of fuel to manufacture and transport these goods then other continents too can probably enjoy the lower prices. Oh I forgot, the other continent's local importer also has to mark-up to maintain a higher standard of living.

Somehow, labour in the 1st World countries are so top-heavy. Like I wrote in my earlier post. If the unemployed ranks (government subsidized or otherwise) took the jobs that are made available to the illegal immigrants there then the government has a lot less to worry about and spend for. Spending that can otherwise be used on essential stuff that can help the industrial sector. You know, spending on performing assets and not on non-performing assets can only lead to progress.

Sorry you just don't get it! No disrespect please
I love the Philippines My Father was there in ww2 and Grandfather there in 1917.
All philippinos I met are great people and friends
please read what I am saying this isn't about people its about corporate greed!

 

[JB Cases]

As for the free advertising Fish, I am a member of this community and I am sure that this sucks for you. As a member of the community I contribute to the discussions and give my opinions even when they aren't liked.

Pretty poor way to "advertise" according to conventional wisdom. So don't try to throw your convictions around. I am living my convictions every day and walking the talk.

What are you doing other than living off the fat?

 

[JB Cases]

Sorry you just don't get it! No disrespect please
I love the Philippines My Father was there in ww2 and Grandfather there in 1917.
All philippinos I met are great people and friends
please read what I am saying this isn't about people its about corporate greed!

How about all the Chinese you know? Aren't they great people and friends as well?

No disrespect? That's all you have shown and continue to show.

It's always about people. Who do think makes up corporations?

 

[bandido]

Sorry you just don't get it! No disrespect please
I love the Philippines My Father was there in ww2 and Grandfather there in 1917.
All philippinos I met are great people and friends
please read what I am saying this isn't about people its about corporate greed!

No worries, this is a discussion. By the way, my great grandfather is from Texas where one of its towns is their last name which can be traced back to Chris Col. I understand corporate greed. Sorry I dug deeper in search for contributory factors that result in corporate greed. US Corporations got greedy because they have to pay high labor cost to maintain high standard of living. Now the high standard of living is the payment for what resulted from the corporate greed to pay high labor cost.:smile:

 

[fish on]

Golly my agenda must be well hidden then because I have been putting myself under the microscope on this issue for 18 years now. Given that I have orders for up to eight months out I guess that people appreciate the level of product they get for the money they choose to spend.

What does it matter to you what I cleared? Show me how much actual work you did in your $25 an hour union protected job? I find it hilarious that you are so predictable as to fall back on this red herring. I love the fact that you are so concerned about what my profit margin is yet you favor protectionist laws that insure insane profit margins (along with high prices for consumers) for those being protected.

You can find out anywhere on the net what the average percentage of MSRP that Chinese production is anywhere on the net. On average it's about 15-20% of the retail price. My cost percentage is much higher than that due to the fact that I pay much more in wages and pay a premium for top quality materials in low quantities.

When are you going to start questioning the fairness in the USA? How about all the people living on the edge of hunger in the USA because they can't get a living wage? When are you going to take your own to task for the fact that they earn unfair wages for their labor while their fellow citizens are just one bout of the flu away from homelessness? Would you give up $10 of your $25 an hour to raise someone else's wage from $5 to $15? After all you seem to be so concerned about the poor Chinese even as you in the next breath want to take away the little opportunity that they do have. So what are you prepared to do?

Ingvar Kamprad said "profit is resources". I am positive that you have no idea what this means since I am sure you didn't read the IKEA story. IKEA gets all kinds of criticism for having their goods produced in low wage countries. Kamprad said that if they didn't produce in low wage countries then they wouldn't have enough profit to be influential on a world stage. Being big they can and do impose certain working standards on their suppliers which they can enforce. So with profit comes the resources to improve the standard of living for the people who produce the goods that IKEA sells to grateful Western consumers who appreciate the great design coupled with low prices.

What did I make on the case? I made enough to stay in business and keep improving the lives of the people around me.

How Much in US Dollars?
You are living in luxury and I don't blame you for not telling about the wages you pay !
A Chinese official was sent to US congress to request US corporations to stop fighting against Chinese working law reforms !
The whole world is complaining about the artificial currency !
valuation which leads to phoney lower wage rates!
You wouldn't believe what prices custom pool tables MSRP 5k etc are wholesaling for here by the pallet! try 500 bucks!
You can have things made in China to your specs( and sent back here to sell )You don't have to have a plant there!
just tell them what you want(called outsourcing) !
Championship Ultra cloth
The costs are so low that it is impossible for a company to not have it manufactured there now!
Tomorrow it is going to be SE Asia less wages
fewer labor laws(reported by US govt)
There should be a floor somewhere so people are afforded decent wages and working conditions!

 

[JB Cases]

How Much in US Dollars?
You are living in luxury and I don't blame you for not telling about the wages you pay !
A Chinese official was sent to US congress to request US corporations to stop fighting against Chinese working law reforms !
The whole world is complaining about the artificial currency !
valuation which leads to phoney lower wage rates!
You wouldn't believe what prices custom pool tables MSRP 5k etc are wholesaling for here by the pallet! try 500 bucks!
You can have things made in China to your specs( and sent back here to sell )You don't have to have a plant there!
just tell them what you want(called outsourcing) !
Championship Ultra cloth
The costs are so low that it is impossible for a company to not have it manufactured there now!
Tomorrow it is going to be SE Asia less wages
fewer labor laws(reported by US govt)
There should be a floor somewhere so people are afforded decent wages and working conditions!

Sure it's so easy isn't it? What were you making on your union job?

Boy you have the business world all figured out don't you?

Well I can see that I am up against too formidable of an intellect. I am going back to my "life of luxury" right now, Bill Gates is waiting.

 

[fish on]

How about all the Chinese you know? Aren't they great people and friends as well?

No disrespect? That's all you have shown and continue to show.

It's always about people. Who do think makes up corporations?

People are people all have red blood inside!
I was raised that way period!

I spent a year in Vietnam(68-69) fighting for the rights of others my belief!
All the asian people I know are respectful ,smart , polite ,hard working people!

 

[fish on]

Sure it's so easy isn't it? What were you making on your union job?

Boy you have the business world all figured out don't you?

Well I can see that I am up against too formidable of an intellect. I am going back to my "life of luxury" right now, Bill Gates is waiting.

like Harry Truman said "They think I am giving them hell, but I am just telling the truth!"

I worked hard all my life for all I have obtained and I am a blessed man!

I don't have to tell you about additional education and businesses I owned irreverent!
I don't have to tell about charity work I performed or volunteer organizations I belong to embarrassing!
That is not me to blow my own horn!
I will say this common sense rules my life!
If it smells like rotten fish its rotten fish!

 

[Dartman]

... (Championship Cloth is made in the USA by the way as far as I know so you should be buying that over European cloth anyway if you really walk your talk)....

Interesting dialogue you guys have going.
For the record -
Championship cloth comes from a mill in Mexico
None of the name brand cloths are made in the US.

 

[JB Cases]

I worked hard all my life for all I have obtained and I am a blessed man!

And God bless you and no one else. (look it up) Oh I will be nice and give you a hint - Chris Rock.

I don't have to tell you about additional education and businesses I owned irreverent!

You irreverently owned an additional "education"?

I don't have to tell about charity work I performed or volunteer organizations I belong to embarrassing!

I am sorry could you repeat that in English?

That is not me to blow my own horn!

English please?

I will say this common sense rules my life!

Obviously.

If it smells like rotten fish its rotten fish!

As my friend Adam would say, you know fish.

 

[JB Cases]

Interesting dialogue you guys have going.
For the record -
Championship cloth comes from a mill in Mexico
None of the name brand cloths are made in the US.

But Belgium is closer to the USA than Mexico so we must protect those Belgian jobs and insure that those Mexicans don't destroy our way of life. Any country famous for it's chocolates is worth paying twice as much for equivalent product. (if one relies on fish on's statement that Championship Ultra is the equivalent of Simonis)

;-)

 

[JB Cases]

People are people all have red blood inside!
I was raised that way period!

I spent a year in Vietnam(68-69) fighting for the rights of others my belief!
All the asian people I know are respectful ,smart , polite ,hard working people!

It's just all the ones you don't know whom you want to see live in eternal poverty and ignorance kept oppressed by totalitarian governments and fed propaganda so that they make bombs instead of plowshares.

"We can bomb the world to pieces, we cannot bomb it into peace" Michael Franti, Spearhead

 

[Dartman]

But Belgium is closer to the USA than Mexico so we must protect those Belgian jobs and insure that those Mexicans don't destroy our way of life. Any country famous for it's chocolates is worth paying twice as much for equivalent product. (if one relies on fish on's statement that Championship Ultra is the equivalent of Simonis)
;-)

I have no intention to get involved in this economic discussion.
Just pointing out where Championship cloth is milled.
BTW, Ultra is nowhere near equivalent to Simonis.
Have a great day.

 

[fish on]

I have no intention to get involved in this economic discussion.
Just pointing out where Championship cloth is milled.
BTW, Ultra is nowhere near equivalent to Simonis.
Have a great day.

thanks for input
I was looking into having Simonis installed on 3 bar tables at a bar league I play in as this was what they used at past APA singles at Riviera before!
I found APA BCA and other leagues have changed to "Championship Mercury Ultra" cloth and it played like simonis to me? (check out championship website for the more details)
Cost is $45 including rails!

 

[ribdoner]

And God bless you and no one else. (look it up) Oh I will be nice and give you a hint - Chris Rock.



You irreverently owned an additional "education"?



I am sorry could you repeat that in English?



English please?



Obviously.



As my friend Adam would say, you know fish.[/QUOTE]


John,

Don't eliminate the slim chance that it's pyou$$why:smile:

 

[Dartman]

thanks for input
I was looking into having Simonis installed on 3 bar tables at a bar league I play in as this was what they used at past APA singles at Riviera before!
I found APA BCA and other leagues have changed to "Championship Mercury Ultra" cloth and it played like simonis to me? (check out championship website for the more details)
Cost is $45 including rails!

We sell all of the Championship product line so no need to checkem out.
Ultra is an ok cloth however the price should tell you something but if you
feel it plays like Simonis then that's great.
I'll leave it at that since this thread isn't about cloth.

 

[fish on]

Sure it's so easy isn't it? What were you making on your union job?

Boy you have the business world all figured out don't you?

Well I can see that I am up against too formidable of an intellect. I am going back to my "life of luxury" right now, Bill Gates is waiting.

When I was in Asia workers were making 1.00 per day doing manual labor
When I went to Thailand a top hotel room cost $5 a night.

Recently on vacation at a Dominican Republic all-inclusive resort workers were so poor you had to tip them anyway!
What I am saying for the record is China low wages with no unions allowed are creating worldwide problems !

Worldwide above poverty minimum wage laws and standards are one thing that can be done!
You must be living like a king when you are charging 1k for a case that costs $100 tops to have others make
I know in Dominican Republic Americans live like Royalty because of cost of living compared to U.S.
They had servants!
I am sure you do not lack for servants !

You belittled my education !
I will put my families education up against yours
Daughter MBA - Investment company
Daughter Secondary Ed. Degree with masters in English + additional work toward Doctorate
Son-in-law VP one of 6-
Mechanical engineer Degree and Master of Business from Lehigh Univ.
30 years old future CEO maybe
500mil sales last year !

Mine Electrical Apprenticeship 5 year
Ongoing electrical education code safety supervision etc.
35 years electrician mostly large job construction foreman -supervisor position difficult projects were my specialty Hospital operating rooms , TV studios, Security systems at large prisons.
Master license now!
Business certificate program Rutgers Univ.
Small business seminars and continuing Business education
Had a Cinnabon franchise in a major mall for 7 years sold it 5 years ago!
Like I said I worked hard all my life!