Score one for the Houligans...

SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Just spoke to Francisco Bustamante as he was practicing for the Million Dollar 9-ball.

Spider:

I see you pivot all the time when you aim, do you use center-to-edge aiming?

Francisco:

Yes, yes. Always left to right.

Spider:

Do you ever pivot right to left?

Francisco:

No, always left-to-right.


He then walked away to play some more. Stevie Moore, same thing...except he doesn't mind the right to left pivot.

I'm not outing anyone - neither said it was a secret.

Good to know two of the top players in the world use bogus, non-working, non-scientific systems.

:thumbup:
SpiderTard
 
I'm sorry I should probably know this, but what does the pivoting part have to do aiming off the edge of the ball and why does it matter which direction you pivot?

Thanks!
 
wow!

That's pretty cool. To be honest I'm one of those more "scientific" type thinkers (I guess) and I have had a bundle of trouble understanding how to implement these things from just reading the stuff posted on here.

I wish I could grasp what "one aim" means and what "center to edge, pivot" means, but I just don't get it. Maybe I'm dense. I do get pretty frustrated trying to understand, so I always just give up since I do OK at aiming using whatever it is I use. <sigh> Maybe it's just really hard to explain over the interwebs.

I'll have to give Hal a call one of these days if he'd be kind enough to take my call. Thanks for posting this field report! :)
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Easy-e was there
Click to expand...

LOL...Well there you go!!! ... (JK)

Actually....I was just checking out the stream of SVB and Bustmante and they were talking about it.

I guess that will put to rest the systems are worthless debate also.

SIDE NOTE: I am going to be curious what the break and run % of this Million $$$ event is...

I just watched three racks SVB...BNR....FB....BNR.....SVB...BNR.

The table seems to be breaking really well....or the players are...one of the two.
 
T said:
I'm sorry I should probably know this, but what does the pivoting part have to do aiming off the edge of the ball and why does it matter which direction you pivot?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Great question but one of the reasons that this whole subject has bogged down in myth and misunderstanding is that it is easier to SHOW how the method works that to try to explain it in writing.

But re: the direction of the pivot, left to right (in terms of the tip) involves moving your arm from outside the shot line in toward the body which feels "natural" and feels like you are "squaring up" the stroking arm.

The right to left pivot...to some...feels like the opposite of the above and uncomfortable.

As for the pivot dynamics, IN GENERAL, and intentionally over-simplified for the purposes of this post, you move into the shot with your hand positioned in a certain relationship to the line running from the outside edge of the OB to the center of the CB (top dead center).

The cue is pointing to the outside edge of the CB.

When your bridge hand reaches the correct position, you pivot the tip to the horizontal center of the CB (for a standard, no-english shot) and BINGO, you have achieve an aim line that will direct the OB to the CENTER of the intended pocket.


I realize that this post does not explain the method in a way that would make it useful to the uninitiated player and I won't even try because all such attempts get bogged down badly.

But I can tell you for a FACT, that when well understood and practiced, the method is DEADLY with very few exceptions which A) are obvious and B) have systematic alternatives.

To really get into this method, contact Stan Shuffett who has evolved his own version of center-to-edge into what he calls the Pro One system or Ronnie Vitello who I have not yet worked with but about whom I hear RAVE reviews.

But WHATEVER you do, do NOT do a search on "center-to-edge" because you will get a hopeless mish mash of myth and misinformation.

Regards,
Jim

PS: The MAJOR fakeouts that cause people to abandon the method (other than simply not understanding it correctly) are:

1. THe new student WILL subconscioulsy "cheat" on the system when it LOOKS wrong (based on their prior experience) and when they do, they will MISS! (-:

2. No aiming method can overcome stroke/mechanical errors and many new students will blame the method when in fact, they have put a bad stroke on the shot.

The above is why it takes TIME to learn and internalize the method.
 
:banghead:
BRKNRUN said:
LOL...Well there you go!!! ... (JK)

Actually....I was just checking out the stream of SVB and Bustmante and they were talking about it.

I guess that will put to rest the systems are worthless debate also.

SIDE NOTE: I am going to be curious what the break and run % of this Million $$$ event is...

I just watched three racks SVB...BNR....FB....BNR.....SVB...BNR.

The table seems to be breaking really well....or the players are...one of the two.
Click to expand...

SHHHHSH.
Let the ignorance remain.:banghead:
JoeyA
 
Cuebacca said:
That's pretty cool. To be honest I'm one of those more "scientific" type thinkers (I guess) and I have had a bundle of trouble understanding how to implement these things from just reading the stuff posted on here.

I wish I could grasp what "one aim" means and what "center to edge, pivot" means, but I just don't get it. Maybe I'm dense. I do get pretty frustrated trying to understand, so I always just give up since I do OK at aiming using whatever it is I use. <sigh> Maybe it's just really hard to explain over the interwebs.

I'll have to give Hal a call one of these days if he'd be kind enough to take my call. Thanks for posting this field report! :)
Click to expand...

I discounted the aiming system for years. One of the reasons was that I had not met anyone who used the system that played any better than I did. Secondly, like you I didn't quite get it even after talking on the telephone with Hal. I also had some others "in the know" telling me that it didn't make sense and wouldn't work and since I'm so gullible, I bought it for years.

But you bring up a good point. This system is better shown than it is written. There are nuances to the Pro One Aiming system, taught by Stan Shuffett. The Pro One Aiming System has some very strong points and is more of a layered aiming system in that there are stages that you go through to maximize it's benefit. I don't like trying to teach the system but I can say for myself, it has been beneficial to my game and as it becomes more second nature to me, it will become even more important to me. This past weekend, after getting severely spanked by a 16 year old boy, I need some improvement. :embarrassed2:

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
I discounted the aiming system for years. One of the reasons was that I had not met anyone who used the system that played any better than I did. Secondly, like you I didn't quite get it even after talking on the telephone with Hal. I also had some others "in the know" telling me that it didn't make sense and wouldn't work and since I'm so gullible, I bought it for years.

But you bring up a good point. This system is better shown than it is written. There are nuances to the Pro One Aiming system, taught by Stan Shuffett. The Pro One Aiming System has some very strong points and is more of a layered aiming system in that there are stages that you go through to maximize it's benefit. I don't like trying to teach the system but I can say for myself, it has been beneficial to my game and as it becomes more second nature to me, it will become even more important to me. This past weekend, after getting severely spanked by a 16 year old boy, I need some improvement. :embarrassed2:

JoeyA
Click to expand...

LOL. :) Kids these days. :rolleyes: :D Thanks for your reply, Joey. I've got to admit, I'm really curious. I hope I can become enlightened one day....
 
Tom Simpson taught me that aiming method of Hal's in his clinic that I attended about a year and a half ago.

The main thing I have to say about it is, a) it works, almost flawlessly, but only if b) you have FAITH in it.

I've tried showing it to about three folks since I learned it. Everyone I've shown it to exhibited varying levels of skepticsm - and I believe that skepticsm prevented them from being able to make it work for them. Subconsciously (or even consciously) they had "this is BS" going on in their heads, and thus, it didn't work for them.

Me, when Tom went through how this worked during his clinic, I'll admit I had some initial "this is BS" going through my head - but I also stomped on that and told myself to go in with an open mind. And damn if I didn't start potting balls with that system right off the bat.

I'll say that due to that system, my game is quite a bit better than it was beforehand. But, I still have many troubles that have nothing to do with that aiming system of Hal's - mostly to do with focus, patience, etc. which still goof me up.
 
Pro One Aiming System

ScottW said:
Tom Simpson taught me that aiming method of Hal's in his clinic that I attended about a year and a half ago.

The main thing I have to say about it is, a) it works, almost flawlessly, but only if b) you have FAITH in it.

I've tried showing it to about three folks since I learned it. Everyone I've shown it to exhibited varying levels of skepticsm - and I believe that skepticsm prevented them from being able to make it work for them. Subconsciously (or even consciously) they had "this is BS" going on in their heads, and thus, it didn't work for them.

Me, when Tom went through how this worked during his clinic, I'll admit I had some initial "this is BS" going through my head - but I also stomped on that and told myself to go in with an open mind. And damn if I didn't start potting balls with that system right off the bat.

I'll say that due to that system, my game is quite a bit better than it was beforehand. But, I still have many troubles that have nothing to do with that aiming system of Hal's - mostly to do with focus, patience, etc. which still goof me up.
Click to expand...

Scott, you mirror a lot of what I have experienced myself. You have trolled me into a response. I laughed out loud when reading your "main thing" a & b items.

Stan Shuffett's Pro One Aiming System is more of a layered "shooting" system. While it is an aiming system, it is much more than that and it is evolutionary as you can go from learning how to know what shots should look like and how to align, you and your cue so that the shot may be easily made to something that I call "structured instinct" which is the aiming system in the hands of a high level player like Stevie Moore or Landon Shuffett and as others have mentioned, Francisco Bustamante and Dennis Orcullo.

The Pro One Aiming System will help beginning and intermediate players immediately. Some of these players may never advance much farther even after learning the system while others will stay on the path of learning and adapting. Advanced players may have to take an act of faith for it to help them. :D :smile: :D

The Pro One Aiming System has helped my game and given me additional confidence and if you need "numbers" to explain a portion of the system that can pass the Mensa Physics test: I can resolutely say that I have the best alignment I have ever had.

What I like about Stan and Landon is that they can put their teaching where their mouth is. I can tell you from personal experience that both Stan and Landon Shuffet CAN PLAY. :smile:

I have quit trying to explain the system to others as I am apparently not competent enough to do so. I too have been met with resistance when attempting to share what I have learned.

It doesn't matter to me whether it is a scientific fact that you cannot accelerate your cue stick through the cue ball or not. The mere ambition to do so will help your game and that is enough for me. The fact that this learning system has acquired overt hostile criticism on a regular basis is plenty of excuse for me not to bother showing it to anyone. That's why I jokingly say, "Let the ignorance remain". :yeah:

Furthermore, I don't think this is simply an aiming system. I'm not trying to coin another term for me it is more of a shooting system in my opinion.

We all can aim pretty darn well. The problem is getting the cue ball to go where we are aiming and secondly, getting the cue ball to go where we want after making the correct contact on the object ball.

I don't particularly like to criticize anyone's efforts to share or improve and have learned long ago: Different strokes for different folks.

JoeyA
 
If anybody has ever seen Jimmy Moore play he use's this way of aiming on ever shot.Maybe there's a video of him on youtube.
 
In poker there are some top players who NEVER read a book. Men Nguyen comes to mind first. And then there are the new breed, who read everything, like Erick Lindgren and Antonio Esfandiari. Different strokes for different folks. Who is to say what is right and what is wrong.
 
Zen and the Art of Motrocycle Maintenence is a great book to read to understand the different approaches to things.

John
 
Center to edge all day. Lets get Hal in the hall of fame. Alot of pro use this system. One that comes to mind is Raj Hundal no mistake here. He and I talked about it. I like guarantees when I shot. There are more holigans talking. I think we need to quite up.
 
Is it true that CJ Wiley also used the Center to Edge system or something very close? He said that there are parts to aiming that top players don't always talk about :)

C2E = The Answer ;)

J.W.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top