Scotch Doubles - who goes next?

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
Depends on the event. Some have a requirement that a team alternate the breaker. I have not seen a requirement for the first shot by the non breaking team.
 

ldl01031

New member
I guess the right answer (now that I think about it) is "find out the tournament rule before play starts." But I was curious what others had experienced. Thanks.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Once a game has started, it's obvious of course. But does/can this 'reset' each game?
We’ve always played the order should stay the same. If a player makes the 9 ball, his partner breaks the next game. If a player misses the last shot and their opponents run out, his partner gets to shoot first in the next game. Even if an easy 9 ball shot is conceded to an opponent, that still counts as a shot and their partner would have to break the following game. If the match involves multiple sets, then naturally the team would be able to start the new set in whatever order they desire.

The question that has always confused me for scotch doubles 9-ball is if a player pushes out after the break and their opponent passes the shot back to them, does that same player shoot or does his partner shoot?
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
Ok you got me to look up the bcapl rules.
1. When it is your team’s turn to break, either player may break. You may discuss the decision with your partner. You are not required to maintain the order of play from any preceding game.
2. The team not breaking may discuss who will take the first shot for their team but the decision must be made before the breaking team’s inning ends. If you do not make the decision by the time the breaking team’s inning ends, then the player listed first on the score sheet must shoot.
Kind of a surprise regarding player listed first. However what I found on the internet says no coaching and I know that is no longer the rule. Couldn’t find the push out rule. So best to clarify before my wife and I play in September.
 

surffisher2a

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have always played you alternate shot, even between games. So if player A made the 8 ball player B would break the rack. (assuming playing 8 ball).
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

APA 8-BALL DOUBLES CHAMPIONSHIP​


  1. FORMAT: Players alternate shots, not turns. The first break of the team match starts the rotation. If a player makes the 8-ball or 9-ball, their teammate breaks the next rack.
  2. LAGGING: The lag will not count as part of the rotation. Teams are not allowed to flip a coin instead of lagging for the bream
  3. CONCESSION OF GAME: If the sitting team concedes a rack before the last ball is pocketed, the winning player’s teammate will break the next rack.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
We’ve always played the order should stay the same. If a player makes the 9 ball, his partner breaks the next game. If a player misses the last shot and their opponents run out, his partner gets to shoot first in the next game. Even if an easy 9 ball shot is conceded to an opponent, that still counts as a shot and their partner would have to break the following game. If the match involves multiple sets, then naturally the team would be able to start the new set in whatever order they desire.

The question that has always confused me for scotch doubles 9-ball is if a player pushes out after the break and their opponent passes the shot back to them, does that same player shoot or does his partner shoot?
This is the one time the same player shoots twice.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jay.... APA rules didnt mention about what to do after a push. I assume since you completed the push, your partner would have to shoot if opponent passes.

Isnt that how they do it at the Mosconi Cup?
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jay.... APA rules didnt mention about what to do after a push. I assume since you completed the push, your partner would have to shoot if opponent passes.

Isnt that how they do it at the Mosconi Cup?

I think the pushout should not count in order switching, since the lag does not either and they are similar shots. You push out as you to the other player, if the other player does not accept it, he is really turning it over to the player that did the push out not to the team overall since it's a special shot. If player A lags, it's a "special shot", and if they win, they break. If player A does a push out, again it's a similar type of special shot so they should get the shot if it's declined.

Especially since the strategy of the push out is to attempt to do something the player had in mind, either a bank, or some safe they through of, or a hard shot they know they are good at, etc... If you then have another player take the shot, the whole idea of the push out becomes almost moot since now the player is pushing out not for what he can or wants to do, but what his partner may want to do.

I will always argue for the push out to go to the same player when I am playing doubles, and I think my reasoning is solid on that.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the pushout should not count in order switching, since the lag does not either and they are similar shots. You push out as you to the other player, if the other player does not accept it, he is really turning it over to the player that did the push out not to the team overall since it's a special shot. If player A lags, it's a "special shot", and if they win, they break. If player A does a push out, again it's a similar type of special shot so they should get the shot if it's declined.

Especially since the strategy of the push out is to attempt to do something the player had in mind, either a bank, or some safe they through of, or a hard shot they know they are good at, etc... If you then have another player take the shot, the whole idea of the push out becomes almost moot since now the player is pushing out not for what he can or wants to do, but what his partner may want to do.

I will always argue for the push out to go to the same player when I am playing doubles, and I think my reasoning is solid on that.
Good points. Except the lag is a "pre game" shot. It just determines who starts the game. That prob why APA does not consider it part of the line up.

You can discuss the push out with your partner to see what they like. In APA, you would have to use your coach. I will have to clarify this with my LO.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member

APA 8-BALL DOUBLES CHAMPIONSHIP​


  1. FORMAT: Players alternate shots, not turns. The first break of the team match starts the rotation. If a player makes the 8-ball or 9-ball, their teammate breaks the next rack.
  2. LAGGING: The lag will not count as part of the rotation. Teams are not allowed to flip a coin instead of lagging for the bream
  3. CONCESSION OF GAME: If the sitting team concedes a rack before the last ball is pocketed, the winning player’s teammate will break the next rack.


There is something fishy about rule number two!

Hu
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good points. Except the lag is a "pre game" shot. It just determines who starts the game. That prob why APA does not consider it part of the line up.

You can discuss the push out with your partner to see what they like. In APA, you would have to use your coach. I will have to clarify this with my LO.

I think the lag is the beginning of the game, determining who goes first is really when the game starts, since going first is usually an advantage so you try to get that advantage. Technically sorting out things such as a handicap when gambling is also "starting" the game before you even get on the table. Picking who plays the match in league, also starting the game since without knowing who is playing there is no game.

The special rules of push outs should make the swapping of players invalid for that shot due to the nature and purpose of that shot.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the lag is the beginning of the game, determining who goes first is really when the game starts, since going first is usually an advantage so you try to get that advantage. Technically sorting out things such as a handicap when gambling is also "starting" the game before you even get on the table. Picking who plays the match in league, also starting the game since without knowing who is playing there is no game.

The special rules of push outs should make the swapping of players invalid for that shot due to the nature and purpose of that shot.
I have no info on the push out rotation as of yet. I dont agree or disagree. I could/would play whatever rule happens to be in place. Doesn't matter one bit. If I opt for a push out, I'll call a coach and ask my partner where he prefers the cue ball in case the opponent passes. Or... if we've been practicing a lot together.... I already know his strengths and weaknesses.

The (APA) rules state a foul can only be committed after a legal break. So technically, following that precedent, the game does not start until there has been a legal break. Everything else is pre game.

Same as flipping a coin for the break. The coin, or actually the person calling the flip, is deciding who actually gets to break....or accomplish a legal break to start the game.
 
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