Searing cues???

poolpro said:
So You have said that Searings work is perfect ( I agree) you have said that you do not love the way all his cues play, but you defended the market value of his cues as being worth it. Then you say that Bushkas, etc hit like Sh@t, and implied that maybe these and other cues are NOT worth what the market brings. These statements sound very contradictoery to me! Can you clarify this?
Click to expand...

My opinion on this is this , I have 3 Szams and 2 100% original mint Bushkas in my collection. They hit fine. They are however , far from perfect in ever aspect. I have them for nothing more than investment purposes only. Neither are 'Art' IMO either. ;) They are purpose built with minimal by todays standards , embelishments.
 
RRfireblade said:
My opinion on this is this , I have 3 Szams and 2 100% original mint Bushkas in my collection. They hit fine. They are however , far from perfect in ever aspect. I have them for nothing more than investment purposes only. Neither are 'Art' IMO either. ;) They are purpose built with minimal by todays standards , embelishments.
Click to expand...


I understand and agree. I used the term "art" because that is what he used. My opinion is that all great cues are "art" even if they are very plain looking. I love the term "functional art". To me a cues beauty is impressive because, not only are many just great to look at for aesthetics, but the design incorporates another level - playability. I think that this magnafies the beauty of a cue.

I get the whole point of playabilty versus aesthetics. I understand inlays have NEVER made someone win a game of pool. I have owned many cues, and still have a good number currently. My favorite cue is a plain jane cocobolo cue with a wrap, and not a single inlay. I love this cue, and have bought and sold many others, but wouldn't get rid of this one. I still use it as my main player. I also love and apreciate fancy cues. All things being equal, I WOULD pay more for a fancy cue, even though I know it does not improve the way it plays.

No one can argue that ivory will add value to a cue. If you have a cue by a well known maker, and I have a cue with many more inlays by that same maker, my cue will bring more money. People will pay for looks. That is a fact. Like it or not, your cue will make a statement about you. Your clothes make a statement about you, your car makes a statement, etc. Maybe in a perfect worl it wouldn't be that way, but it is what it is.

If you have an expensive cue, it implies at the very least a commitment to the game. Whether you are an acomplished worldbeater, or a novice who can't run two ball with bal in hand, it does not matter. An expensive cue does not mean you are a great player, it merely means that you like pool enough to invest some money in it. Usually it follows that if you invest alot of money in it, you probably invested alot of time in it as well. If you invest a lot of time in pool, it follows that you may be a pretty decent player. THIS IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE!! Though it is ALMOST always the assumption. If you meet two players for the first time, and you know nothing about them, and one pulls out a wal mart special, and the other pulls out a custom Southwest, etc. - Can you tell me honestly that your impression will be the same? Now after you watch them play, you may find that the guy with the $30 cue beats the pants off the other guy. It does not change that the cues made a statement( even if it was not accurate). The guy with the southwest may just have a passion for the game and likes to have nice things, and has the means to do so.

Everyone on here KNOWS that you cannot buy a pool game. If you could, I would have bought one many years ago!You CAN buy anice cue that makes the statement that you want it to make. Some great players do not want to draw any attention to themselves, or do not see the need to spend money on any custom cue. Some ball bangers want to spend $10,000 on a cue just cause they can! And vice versa! A chevy will get you to work just as well as a mercedes, yet every day people buy mercedes- why? We all know trhe answer. There is no right or wrong, it is a personal choice.

Anything you can name has an entry level product that will get the job done, and a top of the line model that is PERCIEVED to have more value. Sometimes it is justified, sometimes it is not.

I am about 5' 11'' and weigh around 26o pounds. If I buy a pair of Nike air Jordans, does it mean I think I am a pro basketball player? Am I really worried about the performance of my shoes? Does that Nike swoosh make me any faster? Nope. Does everybody know I blew $150 on these shoes YES! Is it important to me that everybody thinks I spent $150 on my shoes? The answer is NO, so I do not own a pair of jordans. If it is important to you, or you really like them go for it, it sure won't bother me at all.

My personal belief is if you are 100% only concerned with the pure function putting balls in the pocket, a good two piece duffrin will do that for about $60. I think if you absolutely do not care about anything other than function, you absolutey do not have to spend more than $200- 250 at the most. I know that this statement would get a lot of people who disagree, but I stand by it. Most of us find the level between playability, looks, reputatiion of name, inlays, etc that we are comfortable and that is in line with what we can afford. If you are honest, you will know it is true. I admit it. I absolutely do not NEED a $1000 cue, I want it. My girlfriend has a very nice lucasi cue, it retails for about $200, I got her a 314 shaft for it. There is no reason that I can't run a rack of balls with this cue ( assuming I do not screw up!). I have a 3x7 case, it is filled. I sure do not need all that crap. None of this makes me a better player. Am I happy to have it? Yep. Will I keep buying more stuff? Absolutely!

I could go on all day, but you get the point. :D
 
poolpro said:
I I could go on all day, but you get the point. :D
Click to expand...

I do , I think most normal people do.

I think most people see both sides but there are always extremes to any point of view. I've said before and will say again , how well can a person glue pieces of wood together ? There is most definetly a point where it maxes out in precision. So then why all the mystic about certain persons cues ? Dozens of reasons , most of which have been stated here and very little of it is based in tangable fact , let's be honest.

Things like 'hit' and 'feel' are so subjective and influenced by so much more than wood it's impossible to quantify. Not to mention that most people who spend thousands on a cue and wait 2 years to get it are predisposed to give it exceptional properties. Same is true if some historic figure put it together. You can't argue with the human minds thought process. ;)

Anyway . . .

Anything is worth what people will pay for it for what ever reason they deciede to do it. Nothing more than that really matters.

As far the direction in which this thread has turned , I think people around these parts would just like to see respect given to the people that made it possible for 'others' learn the difference between art and purpose. ;)

Personally , I've never hit any cue of any price that truly hit like $hit that wasn't broken.

:p
 
RRfireblade said:
I do , I think most normal people do.

I think most people see both sides but there are always extremes to any point of view. I've said before and will say again , how well can a person glue pieces of wood together ? There is most definetly a point where it maxes out in precision. So then why all the mystic about certain persons cues ? Dozens of reasons , most of which have been stated here and very little of it is based in tangable fact , let's be honest.

Things like 'hit' and 'feel' are so subjective and influenced by so much more than wood it's impossible to quantify. Not to mention that most people who spend thousands on a cue and wait 2 years to get it are predisposed to give it exceptional properties. Same is true if some historic figure put it together. You can't argue with the human minds thought process. ;)

Anyway . . .

Anything is worth what people will pay for it for what ever reason they deciede to do it. Nothing more than that really matters.

As far the direction in which this thread has turned , I think people around these parts would just like to see respect given to the people that made it possible for 'others' learn the difference between art and purpose. ;)

Personally , I've never hit any cue of any price that truly hit like $hit that wasn't broken.

:p
Click to expand...



100% accurate. Can't find a thing to argue with............. Darn! :D
 
poolpro said:
Hello Eddie,

I have been reading this thread from the beginning, and have read every post. I think you may be an okay guy that said a few things that got a bit misunderstood and taken in the worst light. At least I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this. I do see some contradictions though.

You have to understand that making comments on a site like this trashing other cumakers work is going to get this response EVERY time. Especially if it is aimed at buska, szam, gina etc. I CAN understand that you may prefer a different hit then some of their cues that you have tried. You could have said that " while I respect their contributions to the art of cuemaking and the craftsmanship is great, I do not care much for the hit. I prefer a softer hit personally". See? This is essentially what you have said in my paraphrased version. While many people may still disagree with you, they will not be seriously offended. Let me tell you something, the WORST thing you can do to a potential customer is to insult their current favorite cue ( or cuemaker) and say it is sh@t! I know a current cuemaker ( who I won't name) who I met in person many years ago. I was legitimately curious about him and his cues. I was interested to find out more with the possibility of ordering a cue. We were in a pool room. One of the first thing he did was ask what cue I was playing with, then proceeded to bash that cuemaker and say how much better his cues were, etc. Well, think this through for a minute..... If I actually like many of the characteristics of how my cue plays, and he says it is crap...... and he does not do it that way.....why would I want him to build me a cue?
If you just point out the differences, and say "that cue is constructed in this way, I construct my cues in this way. I believe this is an advantage because.....blah, blah. You are not passing negetive judgement, you are merely stating that you feel you can offer me something of value that I most likely will love. By passing judgement ( negetively) about my choice that I have already made, you are esentially telling me I am an idiot and am ignorant of what I spend my money on. I either a) am not really sure if what you are saying is true, and do not have enough confidence on my opinions/knowledge to know better, but won't really rush to do business with someone who has just told me I don't know anything, or b) I DO have a lot of confidence in my opinions/knowledge of cues and the market, and think that you, being a cuemaker, should have at least a basic love and understanding of cues equal or greater to my own, and will NOT choose you from the many choices to buld me a cue. ( even if my opinions may be incorrect). EITHER WAY YOU HAVE LOST A CUSTOMER!!!
Not to mention, bashing and trashtalking the competition is just plain bad business and poor sales tactics. It is often taken as resentment towards a more successful business that is getting a lot of business that you are missing out on.

Take it for what it is worth. You will oinly be hurting yourself and your future as a cumeaker if you continue to make those kind of remarks. I do not know you, and I know nothing about the quality of your work and how it stacks up against anyone else's.

What I think is strange is that you jumped on a thread defending the quality and workmanship of a very well known and respected cuemaker. You were justfying what many thought were outrageous prices for a cue. Then you go on to imply that it is unecessary to spend $2000 for a cue. I understand that you are talking about the difference between buying for playability, or for art. So it seems that you do understand that what makes a cue many more times as valuable is the art factor. Two cues can be exactly the same in construction and playability, but one will be worth twice as much because of its collectibility value. When a very well respected cuemaker dies, his cues value increase. Why? Because of supply and demand. The cue didn't magically become a better playing cue, but the value went up.

So You have said that Searings work is perfect ( I agree) you have said that you do not love the way all his cues play, but you defended the market value of his cues as being worth it. Then you say that Bushkas, etc hit like Sh@t, and implied that maybe these and other cues are NOT worth what the market brings. These statements sound very contradictoery to me! Can you clarify this?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your advice.... you are correct....

and yes I do defend Searing's work 100% and I also preced to say that he IS the Rolls-royce of cuemakers as far as craftmanship and quality goes ! do yes he can deman whatever he wants becasue he is the best as far as that is concerened and many many other will agree !

I can't justify spending the money nor can the avg. person but the art collectors will becasue there are looking for an investment...

I am not saying heis hit good or bad , I personally dont care for a harder hit myself !

I do bieve the market's prices are highly inflated, but is it really fair for mercedes to demand roll-royce prices ?

And then to top it off you got some volkswagons trying to jump in the same bracket...

That was my point before all this went haywire !


Thanks, Eddie Wheat
 
poolpro said:
I understand and agree. I used the term "art" because that is what he used. My opinion is that all great cues are "art" even if they are very plain looking. I love the term "functional art". To me a cues beauty is impressive because, not only are many just great to look at for aesthetics, but the design incorporates another level - playability. I think that this magnafies the beauty of a cue.

I get the whole point of playabilty versus aesthetics. I understand inlays have NEVER made someone win a game of pool. I have owned many cues, and still have a good number currently. My favorite cue is a plain jane cocobolo cue with a wrap, and not a single inlay. I love this cue, and have bought and sold many others, but wouldn't get rid of this one. I still use it as my main player. I also love and apreciate fancy cues. All things being equal, I WOULD pay more for a fancy cue, even though I know it does not improve the way it plays.

No one can argue that ivory will add value to a cue. If you have a cue by a well known maker, and I have a cue with many more inlays by that same maker, my cue will bring more money. People will pay for looks. That is a fact. Like it or not, your cue will make a statement about you. Your clothes make a statement about you, your car makes a statement, etc. Maybe in a perfect worl it wouldn't be that way, but it is what it is.

If you have an expensive cue, it implies at the very least a commitment to the game. Whether you are an acomplished worldbeater, or a novice who can't run two ball with bal in hand, it does not matter. An expensive cue does not mean you are a great player, it merely means that you like pool enough to invest some money in it. Usually it follows that if you invest alot of money in it, you probably invested alot of time in it as well. If you invest a lot of time in pool, it follows that you may be a pretty decent player. THIS IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE!! Though it is ALMOST always the assumption. If you meet two players for the first time, and you know nothing about them, and one pulls out a wal mart special, and the other pulls out a custom Southwest, etc. - Can you tell me honestly that your impression will be the same? Now after you watch them play, you may find that the guy with the $30 cue beats the pants off the other guy. It does not change that the cues made a statement( even if it was not accurate). The guy with the southwest may just have a passion for the game and likes to have nice things, and has the means to do so.

Everyone on here KNOWS that you cannot buy a pool game. If you could, I would have bought one many years ago!You CAN buy anice cue that makes the statement that you want it to make. Some great players do not want to draw any attention to themselves, or do not see the need to spend money on any custom cue. Some ball bangers want to spend $10,000 on a cue just cause they can! And vice versa! A chevy will get you to work just as well as a mercedes, yet every day people buy mercedes- why? We all know trhe answer. There is no right or wrong, it is a personal choice.

Anything you can name has an entry level product that will get the job done, and a top of the line model that is PERCIEVED to have more value. Sometimes it is justified, sometimes it is not.

I am about 5' 11'' and weigh around 26o pounds. If I buy a pair of Nike air Jordans, does it mean I think I am a pro basketball player? Am I really worried about the performance of my shoes? Does that Nike swoosh make me any faster? Nope. Does everybody know I blew $150 on these shoes YES! Is it important to me that everybody thinks I spent $150 on my shoes? The answer is NO, so I do not own a pair of jordans. If it is important to you, or you really like them go for it, it sure won't bother me at all.

My personal belief is if you are 100% only concerned with the pure function putting balls in the pocket, a good two piece duffrin will do that for about $60. I think if you absolutely do not care about anything other than function, you absolutey do not have to spend more than $200- 250 at the most. I know that this statement would get a lot of people who disagree, but I stand by it. Most of us find the level between playability, looks, reputatiion of name, inlays, etc that we are comfortable and that is in line with what we can afford. If you are honest, you will know it is true. I admit it. I absolutely do not NEED a $1000 cue, I want it. My girlfriend has a very nice lucasi cue, it retails for about $200, I got her a 314 shaft for it. There is no reason that I can't run a rack of balls with this cue ( assuming I do not screw up!). I have a 3x7 case, it is filled. I sure do not need all that crap. None of this makes me a better player. Am I happy to have it? Yep. Will I keep buying more stuff? Absolutely!

I could go on all day, but you get the point. :D
Click to expand...

WOW ! that is an excellent analogy..... completely 100% unarguable !

Nice post !


- Eddie Wheat
 
RRfireblade said:
I do , I think most normal people do.

I think most people see both sides but there are always extremes to any point of view. I've said before and will say again , how well can a person glue pieces of wood together ? There is most definetly a point where it maxes out in precision. So then why all the mystic about certain persons cues ? Dozens of reasons , most of which have been stated here and very little of it is based in tangable fact , let's be honest.

Things like 'hit' and 'feel' are so subjective and influenced by so much more than wood it's impossible to quantify. Not to mention that most people who spend thousands on a cue and wait 2 years to get it are predisposed to give it exceptional properties. Same is true if some historic figure put it together. You can't argue with the human minds thought process. ;)

Anyway . . .

Anything is worth what people will pay for it for what ever reason they deciede to do it. Nothing more than that really matters.

As far the direction in which this thread has turned , I think people around these parts would just like to see respect given to the people that made it possible for 'others' learn the difference between art and purpose. ;)

Personally , I've never hit any cue of any price that truly hit like $hit that wasn't broken.

:p
Click to expand...


Yes, I was little loose with that terminology and I have paid dearly for it since....

Mabey I shouldn't drink so much scotch before posting in the wee hours of the morning lol !!!!!

But seriously removing all sarcastic overtones " I sorry for saying those cue hit like shit" I really meant to say is that "I dont like the way balabushkas and szambotis hit to me".

I really hope we can bury that dead horse now, so please for the love of god ... please put you foot back on the ground and step away from the dead horse !


- Eddie WHeat
 
flogging%20dead%20horse.jpg
 
Have you ever even seen a Balabushka?

Dought it! I had one for a player when I was 13. It was one fine weapon. The cue was flawless. And it played, well a friend (Allen Keel) ran 326 with it. He also won the New York State Straight Pool title with it that year. It was considered the world champion title at the time. He was 18. The youngest ever to win the title at that time. I rember him and Steve both playing with Balabushkas in that tournament.
I wish you the best of luck in this industry. You may need it.
Nick :)
 
nick serdula said:
Dought it! I had one for a player when I was 13. It was one fine weapon. The cue was flawless. And it played, well a friend (Allen Keel) ran 326 with it. He also won the New York State Straight Pool title with it that year. It was considered the world champion title at the time. He was 18. The youngest ever to win the title at that time. I rember him and Steve both playing with Balabushkas in that tournament.
I wish you the best of luck in this industry. You may need it.
Nick :)
Click to expand...

I know Alan Kiehle, who was new york state champion in straight pool. I even took a lesson from him once. He comes into the pool room I play at just about everyday. He told me a story about Nick Varner asking him his high run and he said he never went over 200 because when he practiced he would try to run 100 balls and then quit for the night. So he's either being modest in his recollections or there was another Allen who was new york champion.

ps no flaming please cause i dug up some old thread...alot of time on my hands at work today.
 
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