Searing cues???

LC3 said:
A plain jane or sneaky pete is all you need to have a good-hitting cue, and I've seen many that were gorgeous. Anything above that starts to be more about artistry and aesthetics. In that case, who's to say how much flawlessly executed art should command? Every day, people sit in auctions and buy paintings for many times more money than the cost of materials and the artists' labor. Dropping $6,000 on a four pointer, regardless of how flawlessly constructed, won't likely every be my cup of tea, but my feelings about pricing have no implication on the market in general.
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You are 100% correct !!!


As a cuemaker it's quite ridiculous to build that kind of art, if anything it compromises the natural feel of that particular wood's basic properties... so you end up with "art" instead of the instrument's intended purpose...

Don't get me wrong, there is a happy medium, but the wood feel is what this game was originated on, when you have companies like "Meucci" with there freshman series cues, they are completely plastic except for a small amount of wood in the handle... "hell, there's more wood in the shaft than there is in the entire butt of those pieces of sh*t"

I own a Muecci Original 88-3 I bought it back in 1988 when quality meant something to that family, but you couldn't convice me of any selling point to those pitiful quality so called cues they are turning out today ! "that's right BOB, I'm bashing your cues !"

Anyways, back to the point, all that art doesn't help you play better, but it damn sure looks good when you can't hit the back rail !!!

Now from a player's point of view... I think Sneaky pete's are the BEST playing cues you could ever ask for ! that is because the structural integrety of the wood has not been compromised, it still has most of the grain running undisturbed and depending on the type of wood that's used determined a great deal of the vibration and feel you get...

so yes, cues are completely over engineered for there intended purpose, however, it's just like everything else in the competetive market, "everyone's looking for an edge !"

and as far as demanding a certain price for art, well.... we all know it's only worth what someone will pay for it !


Of course that's just my opinion and I could be wrong !



- Eddie Wheat
 
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WheatCues said:
TOUCHE'

I couldn't have been said any better than that !


- Eddie
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I dont think a loup is necessary. If I need it to see an imperfection, is it really a concern. This is the problem with this perfection talk. I believe it all to be hype. I promise that there are some imperfections in his cues. No one is perfect!!!!!!
 
UGA330 said:
I dont think a loup is necessary. If I need it to see an imperfection, is it really a concern. This is the problem with this perfection talk. I believe it all to be hype. I promise that there are some imperfections in his cues. No one is perfect!!!!!!
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You have not seen a Prewitt.
 
UGA330 said:
I dont think a loup is necessary. If I need it to see an imperfection, is it really a concern. This is the problem with this perfection talk. I believe it all to be hype. I promise that there are some imperfections in his cues. No one is perfect!!!!!!
Click to expand...

One's perfection isn't in question here... we all are aware of that old addage !

However , Dennis's work IS perfect !

Why is is so hard to comprehend, that there ARE people who are willing to accept nothing less out of themselves, when they know they are capable to achieve the results they are looking for, and will go the distance to prove it to THEMSELVES over and over again.

The point I'm making is : yes his work is perfect ! "he will NOT accept anything less" it's what seperates him from the rest and that's what his entire reputation as a Master Cuemaker is based on !

I have made my views very clear about Dennis's work, regardinig this topic, and I am not alone in my opinions, there are facts surrounding this discussion, and the proof is simply undisputable !

I respect your cynacism about high-end cues and it's warranted, but remember, you can't expect to pay a Mercedes price for a Rolls-Royce... you probably cannot justify the difference in why ones more expensive than the other because they are both high-end cars... but THEY sure as hell can !

It's the same logic with cues and their makers...



Sincerely, Eddie Wheat
 
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attachment.php
01rkclassic said:
the volcanized rubber tip will get maximum english and unclog your toilet!;)
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That perhaps, is the best application I have seen yet for the infamous and highly regarded budweiser cue !

It really makes a statement and should be considered as a possible marketing concept ! atleast then people would have a reason to "buy" one !


Great job !!!



Originallity - 10.0

Presentation - 10.0

Practacality - 10.0



p.s. where can I get one ??? lol !!!




- Eddie Wheat
 
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First off, am I am just trying to clarify that we are in fact discussing the Secondary Market Pricing/Value of Dennis' cues, correct? I ask, as is so often the case, the lines tend to become muddled as these threads naturally progress.

I do not believe that Dennis' actual pricing is as high as these current secondary market asking prices might cause many to believe they might be. I have no idea as to what the pricing currently is for a 'simple' 4 point, 4 veneer cue is...but I am guessing it is no where near $6K...at least I hope not. :p



We human beings are the worst when it comes to wanting something when it becomes almost impossible to get it...what is up with that?! :eek:

It cannot have been much of a secret that Dennis has had a waiting list with no deposit for several years now. I found it quite easy to contact Dennis about a spot on the list...and he was pretty darn good about getting back to me pretty darn skippy. :) But then....HE CLOSED HIS LIST. :eek: (Or so I have been told. :o )

Now....EVERYBODY wants one of Dennis' cues...and many are willing to pay for it to have one NOW. Soooooo....those that have them, can command a nice little premium for the opportunity for someone to have one NOW.

Same thing happened recently with Eric Crisp/SugarTree...and Richard Harris/BlueGrass every time he closes his list.

I want one now for the same reason I wanted one when I inquired to get onto his list...because he is supposed to make one amazing players cue. That's all the 'hook' I needed. ;) :D

Lisa
 
I did and...

merylane said:
before you make statements like that,

why dont you get that dozen and inspect them with a loup and see which

ONE is left..... and please let us know your findings.
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There was only a Hercek left, sorry. JJ
 
sebas said:
There was only a Hercek left, sorry. JJ
Click to expand...
WHAT IN THE HELL IS A "HERCEK"

and whats the correct pronunciation ???

There are hundreds of cuemakers in the world, where does this marvel reside ???

thanks for your time !



- Eddie Wheat
 
This all has nothing to do with nothing.

The values at question here are to do with nothing more than buyer perception.

Some of the highest valued cues in the world are far less than 'perfect'. In fact most of them are.

That is NOT why people pay what they pay for them. ;) Let's try and keep things in 'this' world.
 
RRfireblade said:
This all has nothing to do with nothing.

The values at question here are to do with nothing more than buyer perception.

Some of the highest valued cues in the world are far less than 'perfect'. In fact most of them are.

That is NOT why people pay what they pay for them. ;) Let's try and keep things in 'this' world.
Click to expand...


Although, you have a point, the highest priced cues in the world value wise are usually because the cuemake is DEAD !

I will be the first one to tell you from first hand experience that balabuska's and stzambodi's " or however you spell Gus's last name" and a couple other's from that era hit like shit... however, they were the pioneers of the cuemaking industry and must be respected for thier efforts and accomplishments.

As far as "this world" is concerened, "what price are YOU willing to put on YOUR work considering the excessive amount of time it takes you to turn out a flawless cue and to know beyond the shadow of a doubt, that cue could be x-rayed and show zero imperfections... to know that when you sell your work for that kind of money the customer is getting exactly what they are paying for, if YOU were a cuemaker ?

I agree that it's overkill, and really impractical from a players point of view, but to a collector who has the taste and means to afford a Rolls-Royce of Custom Cues... then it's completely justifiable to the art collector, besides it's about prestige and the status of owning a Searing cue, knowing that perfection has not been compromised regardless !

I do not own nor do I intend on owning a Searing Cue, but from a cuemaker and player's point of view: there are valid pros and cons to boths sides... but ultimately, Dennis sets the bar on justifying overpriced custom cuemaker's work.

Let's face it, most cuemaker's prices are flat out friggin' ridiculous ! 99% of all cuesmakers these days are using motorized equipment to handle the tapers and points and inlay work, even some with high-tech computers attached to their mills and routers, although still considered handmade..... only a couple of cuemakers out there are "tatoo artists" using an exact-o knife to cut out inlays and hand cutting points as well... now those couple of guys deserve all the money they can get, because the amount of hours thats involved is disgusting !!!

But the rest of the field is just trying to drive up the cost for the simple reasoning, that " if everyone is getting 500% more for their cues than why can't I" but of course that's where true quality and experience and passion comes in to play ! very few cumakers to day still operate based on those inate qualities... majority of the cuemakers now are spoiled money hungry marketing guru's that are only motivated by $$$ and will work as little as they have to buy less quailty wood, and sell it for as much as they can get, and as long as you don't have a problem with it, neither do they !

Understand, I am not a salesman for Dennis or any other cuemaker... but I am very realistic with my opinions and factual data that I share with fellow enthusists on here, and will offer my insight whenever applicable...

I always appreciate everyones points of view, and enjoys reading objective comments, it's quite helpful to me as a cuemaker who is going mainstream shortly, to become aware of the upcoming fire that I will be undergoing from those of you who I'm indirectly involved with now.

I absolutely mean zero disrespect in my responses to any postings by anyone on this site, I feel we are all adults and pool players entitled to our opinons and prerequisits about quality cues !


Thanks, Eddie Wheat
 
Hercek

WheatCues said:
WHAT IN THE HELL IS A "HERCEK"

and whats the correct pronunciation ???

There are hundreds of cuemakers in the world, where does this marvel reside ???

thanks for your time !



- Eddie Wheat
Click to expand...
He is a very little known cuemaker in Illinois. I think he learned cuemaking and took over hisbusiness from some unknown guy named Burton Spain. Can't remember where I heard the name Burton Spain but I think he may be in some association called something like International Cuemakers Hall of Fame and he might have made blanks for Balabushkas(dont really know what they are?). That is all I really know about him, that and his website. www.hercek.com. I cant even say that I really have ever met someone who knows him, but boy his cues sure are pretty. HMMM kind of makes you think. Do you have a BLUE BOOK of CUES? I heard from a mouse that he is in there. Anyone else know this guy Joel Hercek?
 
sebas said:
He is a very little known cuemaker in Illinois. I think he learned cuemaking and took over hisbusiness from some unknown guy named Burton Spain. Can't remember where I heard the name Burton Spain but I think he may be in some association called something like International Cuemakers Hall of Fame and he might have made blanks for Balabushkas(dont really know what they are?). That is all I really know about him, that and his website. www.hercek.com. I cant even say that I really have ever met someone who knows him, but boy his cues sure are pretty. HMMM kind of makes you think. Do you have a BLUE BOOK of CUES? I heard from a mouse that he is in there. Anyone else know this guy Joel Hercek?
Click to expand...

If Joel Hercek is so "little known" then why is there a 9 year wait for his cues? I've known Joel for over 20 years back to when he was a collector cue salesman and he does make one of the best cues on the planet. He learned the trade from another famous cuemaker Burton Spain just before Spain passed away with cancer, but you can read the story on Hercek's website. www.hercek.com Joel's work is near perfect. I'd rate him up there with Barry Szamboti and Craig Peterson, a hair above Searing although I'd rate Searing close to those guys. For me the best cues for playability and collecting are Szamboti, Peterson, Searing, Bender, Tascarella, and Ed Young. My personal playing cue is a Franklyn Alves Southwest that hits great but I'll admit they don't all hit that way. As far as mistakes go everyone makes them. I had a Searing with flaws in the finish but I sold it because it hit good and not great. My buddy has a Searing that hits great that he won't sell it for anything. I also have a fancy Billy Schick that came with flaws and a warp shaft that hits like a wet noodle. I had a Tim Scruggs at 19.5 that came with a butt heavy 17 inch balance point. Everyone makes mistakes but you try to order from someone that is most consistant and Joel Hercek is as close to the top as you can get.
 
To Wheat Cues :

I'll respond here since PMs can't be this long :

I saw your post and concurr . . . mostly. Nice work.

It's not that big a dealt to me really , I just get a kick out of peoples responses and perceptions. It not just in cues either.

I've been playing and therefore collecting cues for almost 30 years. I have some of what has now become , the most sought after cues in the business. I also currently have 2 of Dennis' cues. They hit great , they look great. I have more than a few others that do too. I said somewhere in there that we are talking about a wood pipe. How good can a few pieces of wood be glued together , really. :) There is most definately a point of no return.

As for my most collectables , most of them I wouldn't play with today if given to me. :) As a woodworker and craftsman in other trades and now a machinist , I've not been impressed with alot of 'High end" cues. Many today now are very well built and very high quality but I promise you , not even Dennis will call one of his perfect. You just don't know what perfect is to him. ;)

I'm good friends now with Chris Nitti. We are alomost neighbors. I've seen his cues progress to the point that the quality now is as good as any other I've ever owned or seen inside and out and he hasn't been building that long. You should see the scraps he's usuing as tool rests and handles. His throw aways blow away alot of the market today. He still won't claim to have built a perfect cue. To most at that level , there is no such thing.

So now . . . we fall back on buyer perception where we started. Hype , Endorsment , MSRP , Myth , Mystique , Investment or what ever acts on it and why is where bottom line value comes from.

If the price was right to you the buyer , then it was the right price.

For the record I'm currently playing with a quite plain jane Purple Heart Nitti and a very old growth maple shaft. Simple Ivory dashed rings and an Ivory ferrule.

Hits as solid with as much lively feedback as anything else I've played. Cost about $600. ;)
 
RRfireblade said:
To Wheat Cues :

I'll respond here since PMs can't be this long :

I saw your post and concurr . . . mostly. Nice work.

It's not that big a dealt to me really , I just get a kick out of peoples responses and perceptions. It not just in cues either.

I've been playing and therefore collecting cues for almost 30 years. I have some of what has now become , the most sought after cues in the business. I also currently have 2 of Dennis' cues. They hit great , they look great. I have more than a few others that do too. I said somewhere in there that we are talking about a wood pipe. How good can a few pieces of wood be glued together , really. :) There is most definately a point of no return.

As for my most collectables , most of them I wouldn't play with today if given to me. :) As a woodworker and craftsman in other trades and now a machinist , I've not been impressed with alot of 'High end" cues. Many today now are very well built and very high quality but I promise you , not even Dennis will call one of his perfect. You just don't know what perfect is to him. ;)

I'm good friends now with Chris Nitti. We are alomost neighbors. I've seen his cues progress to the point that the quality now is as good as any other I've ever owned or seen inside and out and he hasn't been building that long. You should see the scraps he's usuing as tool rests and handles. His throw aways blow away alot of the market today. He still won't claim to have built a perfect cue. To most at that level , there is no such thing.

So now . . . we fall back on buyer perception where we started. Hype , Endorsment , MSRP , Myth , Mystique , Investment or what ever acts on it and why is where bottom line value comes from.

If the price was right to you the buyer , then it was the right price.

For the record I'm currently playing with a quite plain jane Purple Heart Nitti and a very old growth maple shaft. Simple Ivory dashed rings and an Ivory ferrule.

Hits as solid with as much lively feedback as anything else I've played. Cost about $600. ;)
Click to expand...


I have known Chris Nitti since 1992 we started building cues about the same time... he had alot more operating capital than I did at the time so he took a huge jump on me... his work is very beautiful, he is very artistic ! however, as a fellow cuemaker custom fitting cues to customers and building them to thier exact specs. to increase overall performance.... I do not see how sperm whale bone inlays in Chris's cues help you play better.......


- Eddie Wheat
 
sebas said:
He is a very little known cuemaker in Illinois. I think he learned cuemaking and took over hisbusiness from some unknown guy named Burton Spain. Can't remember where I heard the name Burton Spain but I think he may be in some association called something like International Cuemakers Hall of Fame and he might have made blanks for Balabushkas(dont really know what they are?). That is all I really know about him, that and his website. www.hercek.com. I cant even say that I really have ever met someone who knows him, but boy his cues sure are pretty. HMMM kind of makes you think. Do you have a BLUE BOOK of CUES? I heard from a mouse that he is in there. Anyone else know this guy Joel Hercek?
Click to expand...

And wasn't Burton inspired by some random guy named Craig Petersen????
 
WheatCues said:
Although, you have a point, the highest priced cues in the world value wise are usually because the cuemake is DEAD !

I will be the first one to tell you from first hand experience that balabuska's and stzambodi's " or however you spell Gus's last name" and a couple other's from that era hit like shit... however, they were the pioneers of the cuemaking industry and must be respected for thier efforts and accomplishments.
As far as "this world" is concerened, "what price are YOU willing to put on YOUR work considering the excessive amount of time it takes you to turn out a flawless cue and to know beyond the shadow of a doubt, that cue could be x-rayed and show zero imperfections... to know that when you sell your work for that kind of money the customer is getting exactly what they are paying for, if YOU were a cuemaker ?

I agree that it's overkill, and really impractical from a players point of view, but to a collector who has the taste and means to afford a Rolls-Royce of Custom Cues... then it's completely justifiable to the art collector, besides it's about prestige and the status of owning a Searing cue, knowing that perfection has not been compromised regardless !

I do not own nor do I intend on owning a Searing Cue, but from a cuemaker and player's point of view: there are valid pros and cons to boths sides... but ultimately, Dennis sets the bar on justifying overpriced custom cuemaker's work.

Let's face it, most cuemaker's prices are flat out friggin' ridiculous ! 99% of all cuesmakers these days are using motorized equipment to handle the tapers and points and inlay work, even some with high-tech computers attached to their mills and routers, although still considered handmade..... only a couple of cuemakers out there are "tatoo artists" using an exact-o knife to cut out inlays and hand cutting points as well... now those couple of guys deserve all the money they can get, because the amount of hours thats involved is disgusting !!!

But the rest of the field is just trying to drive up the cost for the simple reasoning, that " if everyone is getting 500% more for their cues than why can't I" but of course that's where true quality and experience and passion comes in to play ! very few cumakers to day still operate based on those inate qualities... majority of the cuemakers now are spoiled money hungry marketing guru's that are only motivated by $$$ and will work as little as they have to buy less quailty wood, and sell it for as much as they can get, and as long as you don't have a problem with it, neither do they !

Understand, I am not a salesman for Dennis or any other cuemaker... but I am very realistic with my opinions and factual data that I share with fellow enthusists on here, and will offer my insight whenever applicable...

I always appreciate everyones points of view, and enjoys reading objective comments, it's quite helpful to me as a cuemaker who is going mainstream shortly, to become aware of the upcoming fire that I will be undergoing from those of you who I'm indirectly involved with now.

I absolutely mean zero disrespect in my responses to any postings by anyone on this site, I feel we are all adults and pool players entitled to our opinons and prerequisits about quality cues !


Thanks, Eddie Wheat
Click to expand...
Gus's cues hit like shait?
Szamboti.
And you never heard of Hercek before?

Most cuemakers' prices are ridiculous?
majority of the cuemakers now are spoiled money hungry marketing guru's that are only motivated by $$$
Ah, pls name some who are marketing gurus. Name me ONE successful maker who is a marketing guru and charges too much for his cues.
 
So you didn't know who HERCEK was, and Szamboti's/Balabushka's hit like sh*t.....hmmm...are you sure you are qualified to post on AZ (or even make cues)? (Oops...sorry Joeyincali, great minds think alike I guess)
 
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