Seeing the contact point on the object ball.

Physics, shmysics.😝

Ya just gotta learn from empirical observation. Not the why something occurs, only that it occurs.

Perhaps the why might allow someone with a science background to learn more quickly. Perhaps not.

(This coming from a math degreed college grad.)
 
bbb said:
me and @straightline have a long on line history and he promotes/prophesizes/invented? contact point geometry concept
thats the CBG under his screen name
so in the comment above about physics above
i posted to tease him alittle
regardinig physics
i think you can play world class and have no clue to explain the physics involved in the collisions ,spins and rebounds on a table
but subconsciously you understand whats going to happen when you do this that happens
i also think knowing the physics can be helpful if your the analytical type and that knowledge helps you
@Patrick Johnson responded to @jasonlaus
with this post which i agree with
..........................................................

That's a choice, not a fact.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Did not invent CPG. Just noticed it.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
There's a whole forum for aiming topics. Maybe this thread will get moved there, but in the meantime....

Suppose you can keep the contact point in mind, say it happens to be a feature on the object ball. What do you then do with that point once you get over to shoot the cue ball?
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My question is once you are confident of OB contact point, do you shoot the CB with center ball aiming the cue tip directly at the contact point or aim the edge/contact point on the CB at the contact point? Elementary or intuitive I'm sure to good players.
 
Doug said:
My question is once you are confident of OB contact point, do you shoot the CB with center ball aiming the cue tip directly at the contact point or aim the edge/contact point on the CB at the contact point? Elementary or intuitive I'm sure to good players.
Click to expand...
Generally, you should connect the two contact points. In some cases, you can aim directly (CB center) to the contact point (assuming farthest spot from pocket, opposite side on target ball), but not always. The contact-point-to-contact-point is the geometrically desired, "center-pocket" aim, but there is also 'throw' to contend with. However, if you have a fairly consistent, baseline result in your shots, then you can learn to compensate for speed/spin differences.

The point-to-point aiming is to offset for the curvature of the balls, which is not considered when aiming center-CB to OB-contact point. The offset is compensated for in other aiming systems, such as using the "side of the cue (ferrule)" type of alignment, which moves the centerline of the cuestick over for the necessary offset. For Ghostball, the offset is achieved by aiming at where the centerline of the ghostball touches the cloth. For fractional aiming, there isn't really a calculation for offset, as the specific cut-angles are "burnt in" by practice, and more/less cut angle is determined by experience.

I learned to offset by aiming (CB) centerball (to *assumed aimpoint to make the ball*), seeing that I missed, and then began to move my aimpoint to compensate *to the pocket*. I have other ways to determine cut angles now, but that was how I began to focus on *making the cue ball hit the "outside" of the target/object ball*.
 
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Doug said:
My question is once you are confident of OB contact point, do you shoot the CB with center ball aiming the cue tip directly at the contact point or aim the edge/contact point on the CB at the contact point? Elementary or intuitive I'm sure to good players.
Click to expand...
If you do it right, you will have the stick line. Period. This will be the default of the shot. Backhand english will suffice on the majority of shots to the degree you may have to go looking for instances of fronthand and other applications of english.
Important to note is BHE should be pivot only. You just have to trust that you are no longer aiming.

The execution part; at some point you just have to get in the car and develop a feel for parking and unparking and generally staying oriented and centered in traffic. Lotta ands...
 
Doug said:
My question is once you are confident of OB contact point, do you shoot the CB with center ball aiming the cue tip directly at the contact point or aim the edge/contact point on the CB at the contact point? Elementary or intuitive I'm sure to good players.
Click to expand...
Cue ball center towards the contact point hits the object ball twice as full as needed. I hope this is obvious to all.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Cue ball center towards the contact point hits the object ball twice as full as needed. I hope this is obvious to all.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply Mr. Jewett. It makes sense, particularly when it is stated by a respected authority. I knew the CB replaces the ghost ball but I have difficulty aiming at an empty space. Sorry for my simple question.
 
straightline said:
If you do it right, you will have the stick line. Period. This will be the default of the shot. Backhand english will suffice on the majority of shots to the degree you may have to go looking for instances of fronthand and other applications of english.
Important to note is BHE should be pivot only. You just have to trust that you are no longer aiming.

The execution part; at some point you just have to get in the car and develop a feel for parking and unparking and generally staying oriented and centered in traffic. Lotta ands...
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply. Now I have a better idea of what I need to do. With more practice I may develop the "feel" you mentioned. I can relate to what you pointed out.
 
heater451 said:
Generally, you should connect the two contact points. In some cases, you can aim directly (CB center) to the contact point (assuming farthest spot from pocket, opposite side on target ball), but not always. The contact-point-to-contact-point is the geometrically desired, "center-pocket" aim, but there is also 'throw' to contend with. However, if you have a fairly consistent, baseline result in your shots, then you can learn to compensate for speed/spin differences.

The point-to-point aiming is to offset for the curvature of the balls, which is not considered when aiming center-CB to OB-contact point. The offset is compensated for in other aiming systems, such as using the "side of the cue (ferrule)" type of alignment, which moves the centerline of the cuestick over for the necessary offset. For Ghostball, the offset is achieved by aiming at where the centerline of the ghostball touches the cloth. For fractional aiming, there isn't really a calculation for offset, as the specific cut-angles are "burnt in" by practice, and more/less cut angle is determined by experience.

I learned to offset by aiming (CB) centerball (to *assumed aimpoint to make the ball*), seeing that I missed, and then began to move my aimpoint to compensate *to the pocket*. I have other ways to determine cut angles now, but that was how I began to focus on *making the cue ball hit the "outside" of the target/object ball*.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply. All the replies have helped in understanding what I need to do. Of course, that means more time on the table but now, with more information.
 
heater451 said:
Generally, you should connect the two contact points. In some cases, you can aim directly (CB center) to the contact point (assuming farthest spot from pocket, opposite side on target ball), but not always. The contact-point-to-contact-point is the geometrically desired, "center-pocket" aim, but there is also 'throw' to contend with. However, if you have a fairly consistent, baseline result in your shots, then you can learn to compensate for speed/spin differences.

The point-to-point aiming is to offset for the curvature of the balls, which is not considered when aiming center-CB to OB-contact point. The offset is compensated for in other aiming systems, such as using the "side of the cue (ferrule)" type of alignment, which moves the centerline of the cuestick over for the necessary offset. For Ghostball, the offset is achieved by aiming at where the centerline of the ghostball touches the cloth. For fractional aiming, there isn't really a calculation for offset, as the specific cut-angles are "burnt in" by practice, and more/less cut angle is determined by experience.

I learned to offset by aiming (CB) centerball (to *assumed aimpoint to make the ball*), seeing that I missed, and then began to move my aimpoint to compensate *to the pocket*. I have other ways to determine cut angles now, but that was how I began to focus on *making the cue ball hit the "outside" of the target/object ball*.
Click to expand...
Minor issue, but I did not say that, Doug did.
 
Doug said:
Thanks for your reply. All the replies have helped in understanding what I need to do. Of course, that means more time on the table but now, with more information.
Click to expand...
no disrespect
but you have been a member since 2003
and you still dont know you cant aim at the contact point?
 
bbb said:
no disrespect
but you have been a member since 2003
and you still dont know you cant aim at the contact point?
Click to expand...
Sorry to have been disruptive by asking such an elementary question. Recently, at age 82, I seem to miss balls that I never used to miss. Can't figure out why. I simply was looking for a refresher course to play at an enjoyable level that I once was able to. So, yes, you reply was disrespectful because you didn't have the manners to ask why I was asking my question having been a member since 2003. Why say anything at all if you don't intend to be helpful. I met a REAL pool player, Howard Barrett, out of Florida when he came to my town. At that time he was about the age I am now and he said he couldn't figure out why he was missing so many shots. I figured if he had a problem it was acceptable for me to have that problem even though I have never been or claimed to be a REAL pool player.
 
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