Good post. Took it to the table seems to work well for me.
Downloaded the video just in case it gets lost on YT.
Thanks
John
Shadow Method
- Thread starter greyghost
- Start date
Good post. Took it to the table seems to work well for me.
Downloaded the video just in case it gets lost on YT.
Thanks
John
Good post. Took it to the table seems to work well for me.
Downloaded the video just in case it gets lost on YT.
Thanks
John
PHA.....good man....still couldn't believe that ingo and another german are the ones who had the OG fundamentals of pool, tho the second was only a few minutes lol.....hummm germans must like storing pool vids lol
in regards to shaftwork.....left cut, left side of shaft....right, then right side....the center of shaft is used my myslef less than the sides for alignment of the technique but i play wider angles than i find many do generally speaking.
Since the original dive into starting to scratch on this technically in 2005....I was house pro at reverend jug heads in broken arrow ok.... Pat mincini an Ohio native was managing the spot while attending rehma bible college in Tulsa. He was really bad at pool never really played. Wonderful fella. Couldn't stand watching him is rail cut shots so much struggling poor thing. He would make me the best coffees and these huge scooby and shag sandwiches which o would smash between long practice sessions and waking up from under pool tables. We stayed up till 9 or so one day.... And I kept looking and trying to see something diff for pat to help him. I came up with this gaffey method that he could work with. But deep down I always felt like there was something there I could find for everyone. In honor of pat I'm gonna start calling it grey ghosts pat point method. I'll get him on here this weekend. He's driving from ft hood to see me. Pick up a cue I refinished and jazzed up I helped Joel build for him over ten years ago. Till sun keep it tight guys.
So Sunday will be story time so tall come on down to "church"
Stay on "point"
-grey ghost
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So Sunday will be story time so tall come on down to "church"
Stay on "point"
-grey ghost
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey greyghost, thank you for your efforts.
I didn't want to write anything until I try it at the table, and so I did on sunday but didn't even got to hitting a ball.
When I get my cue up and look through my shaft I see two shafts and both are blurry so I can't align my inside shaft edge to anything, what am I doing wrong?
And if get my cue out of my face farther away I can't cover the whole CB with my shaft?
Thank you, it would be nice to see how you use this system on video, like you did with that guy.
I didn't want to write anything until I try it at the table, and so I did on sunday but didn't even got to hitting a ball.
When I get my cue up and look through my shaft I see two shafts and both are blurry so I can't align my inside shaft edge to anything, what am I doing wrong?
And if get my cue out of my face farther away I can't cover the whole CB with my shaft?
Thank you, it would be nice to see how you use this system on video, like you did with that guy.
your not doing anything wrong your actually trying perfect brother.....your SEEING honestly not THROUGH the shaft, but when its centered you see the same image twice but since the shafts close each eye gets a little diff view of it....so you get that illusion...i think this is called parallax if i'm not mistaken.
what you want to do is close one eye, and see with other, then do reverse....
which ever of the two shafts DOESN"T MOVE its position when you blink, thats the one you want.......for myself its always the left one.
your still not of course going to be focusing on that, becuase your at that "pat point" in focus, that shaft image is basically just "ghosting' and your going to lay it even on the ball in relation to the english your using, to the "pat point"
thats why i would tell PJ back when that imop its not a system. Its a method. Long before brumback was making everyone scratch tehir head here about method/system......
i do not think about aiming.....the word never comes to mind.....CTE and others are doing things trying to find something.......and slide in.
i've never really even addressed the see system in reagards to this....but its a system for certain.....and i can see why his banks end is so involved.......because like with the other systems no ones ever been able to figure out WTF is consistent with the CONTACT point on a ball from ANY MAKEABLE VIEW POINT.
Doesn't matter what your using......
except i know why this is happening......an article will come.....i have my doodle....but its too awesome to put up at the moment....
the proof for the visual component will come to the forum soon when i put it on a serving tray......
I walk this in
Have you tried to slow roll or drag using this method ?
If you do exactly the same that pockets the ball at medium speed, my guess is that you will overcut at low speed.
call me bobby fischer....i know exactly how i sound.
that would be just a guess yes. CIT ranges are not = among all cut shots.
i never really much understood all this crazy swerve people experience....maybe when i decide for some fool reason to get way outside the ball....
my english is used as help not the mule that pulls the cart.
i slow roll cut shots from the center or next half diamond up one ball width off end rail and cut them into the side pocket......complete stroke full roll of ball....i shoot soft shots very well actually.
many of the things like this i get asked they are no big deal or issue .....because theres no pivot and my use of english and alignment are the true overlaps if thats what i was looking at ( i dont.....balls schmalls)
i do spot shots slow or fast.....walk in and drop in one long smooth motion settling like a square rock.........at worst i'm just imagining my cradle hand finishing and knuckle of index fingers touching that point......but i dont aim with something i cant see really but i like the image in my mind for my hand......visualy i'm straight in.....i just send the side of the shaft which is the side of the CB as well even tho the CB is of no consequence to me.....and yall aiming and i'm playing pin the tale on the donkey with no blind fold.
its very very rare that i undercut a ball.....it will be thin as frogs hair and ill over cut the shot before i'm libel to under cut it.......most that i've taught this too seem to experience the same....missing more on the pro side when they do.
theres nothing really that you are doing or looking at that will induce that besides having a unaccurate stroke, alignment or to much english etc.....
the "pat points" are visually on the cloth not on the ball.....
this is why i need to do a really long article.....because the questions like that.....are of so many minds like how many of us shoot daily....with so many questions to answer.....
dont get me wrong this is no "system" where i'm telling you to for this shot, use X english and pivot out and point to BFE and pretend like your aligned......it totally works but by bastardizing a true alignment with that pivot.....
Hal was right about the pivot.....but not just the top players, nearly everyone does this....
we do this because subconscioulsy were looking for something else besides the contact point on the OB for a reference.....and you can make alot of things work but doesn't mean its not counter intuitive in application....
theres a whole thought process to a system.....and knowing that you use the right side of the shaft for a right cut....well i mean....common sense tells us that wether your using this method or not.....i do not have to survey and find anything that wasn't alreay there for everyeone else since this games had lights.
like the idea of say shooting a slow or drag shot with a bunt, or being able to use a full stroke for any shot....... i dont like learning or teaching with a bunch of asterisks and constant changes because its just getting you there by program with a dance routine and a consistent movement but an inconsistent aim after all the movings done.
lot of people i have seen use it still get the heeby jeebies from time to time over the "sight" of what they are looking at......because those methods are looking at the cue and body......and rigging it to match which must be the reason for all the variables from shot to shot....it very much makes sense to me that it works....just not good sense.....its basically a independent version of CTE that i figured for Pat on the rail shots....but it was hackery imop. It led me to see this later which i even then saw the linkage of the two, then CTE.....now I"m guessing pro one......
i'm really not trying to down play anything anyones done.....this stuff is hard to do....and rationalize for many much less visualize when tlaking about it.....really diff in person....
but because of all that i can see how me having this particualr point, that is the "pat point" i talk about, but itsn't that point at all at the same time.........none of the others have this.....
all that extra time not worring about balls and just my rythm speed and spin and pin the needle pin the needle....
again tho seriously i dont mean ban English
lmfao....just i use it springly and always haveing to adjust to the spectrum......majority if i'm using side spin its a tip or less......but when you have a nice stroke you can get plenty on the core of the ball without having to whip it on the saturn rings.
VERY SERIOUS QUESTION does CTE or Pro one the SEE or name it...CAN they wanted to aim the ball to go to just a particular spot on the rail on a cut and stop....can it aim for partially covered barely passable spaces that aren't CENTER of pocket?
my method can....john doesn't know this yet....i haven't told anyone but Pat about this. I can pick anyspot
that would be just a guess yes. CIT ranges are not = among all cut shots.
i never really much understood all this crazy swerve people experience....maybe when i decide for some fool reason to get way outside the ball....
my english is used as help not the mule that pulls the cart.
i slow roll cut shots from the center or next half diamond up one ball width off end rail and cut them into the side pocket......complete stroke full roll of ball....i shoot soft shots very well actually.
many of the things like this i get asked they are no big deal or issue .....because theres no pivot and my use of english and alignment are the true overlaps if thats what i was looking at ( i dont.....balls schmalls)
i do spot shots slow or fast.....walk in and drop in one long smooth motion settling like a square rock.........at worst i'm just imagining my cradle hand finishing and knuckle of index fingers touching that point......but i dont aim with something i cant see really but i like the image in my mind for my hand......visualy i'm straight in.....i just send the side of the shaft which is the side of the CB as well even tho the CB is of no consequence to me.....and yall aiming and i'm playing pin the tale on the donkey with no blind fold.
its very very rare that i undercut a ball.....it will be thin as frogs hair and ill over cut the shot before i'm libel to under cut it.......most that i've taught this too seem to experience the same....missing more on the pro side when they do.
theres nothing really that you are doing or looking at that will induce that besides having a unaccurate stroke, alignment or to much english etc.....
the "pat points" are visually on the cloth not on the ball.....
this is why i need to do a really long article.....because the questions like that.....are of so many minds like how many of us shoot daily....with so many questions to answer.....
dont get me wrong this is no "system" where i'm telling you to for this shot, use X english and pivot out and point to BFE and pretend like your aligned......it totally works but by bastardizing a true alignment with that pivot.....
Hal was right about the pivot.....but not just the top players, nearly everyone does this....
we do this because subconscioulsy were looking for something else besides the contact point on the OB for a reference.....and you can make alot of things work but doesn't mean its not counter intuitive in application....
theres a whole thought process to a system.....and knowing that you use the right side of the shaft for a right cut....well i mean....common sense tells us that wether your using this method or not.....i do not have to survey and find anything that wasn't alreay there for everyeone else since this games had lights.
like the idea of say shooting a slow or drag shot with a bunt, or being able to use a full stroke for any shot....... i dont like learning or teaching with a bunch of asterisks and constant changes because its just getting you there by program with a dance routine and a consistent movement but an inconsistent aim after all the movings done.
lot of people i have seen use it still get the heeby jeebies from time to time over the "sight" of what they are looking at......because those methods are looking at the cue and body......and rigging it to match which must be the reason for all the variables from shot to shot....it very much makes sense to me that it works....just not good sense.....its basically a independent version of CTE that i figured for Pat on the rail shots....but it was hackery imop. It led me to see this later which i even then saw the linkage of the two, then CTE.....now I"m guessing pro one......
i'm really not trying to down play anything anyones done.....this stuff is hard to do....and rationalize for many much less visualize when tlaking about it.....really diff in person....
but because of all that i can see how me having this particualr point, that is the "pat point" i talk about, but itsn't that point at all at the same time.........none of the others have this.....
all that extra time not worring about balls and just my rythm speed and spin and pin the needle pin the needle....
again tho seriously i dont mean ban English
lmfao....just i use it springly and always haveing to adjust to the spectrum......majority if i'm using side spin its a tip or less......but when you have a nice stroke you can get plenty on the core of the ball without having to whip it on the saturn rings.VERY SERIOUS QUESTION does CTE or Pro one the SEE or name it...CAN they wanted to aim the ball to go to just a particular spot on the rail on a cut and stop....can it aim for partially covered barely passable spaces that aren't CENTER of pocket?
my method can....john doesn't know this yet....i haven't told anyone but Pat about this. I can pick anyspot
https://www.facebook.com/greyghostepignosis/posts/1795413460693180
my best bobby fisher impersonation
my best bobby fisher impersonation
after looking at that.....
pick a spot on the rail....or a piece of a partial pocket
stand right in fron the shot....look at the pat point......go to where your OB is....in relation to shot....and strike it as seen....
another reason is because there was never and it doesn't matter how the stupid lights are....or where the dam pockets are either.
notice the PAT in any direction....go to CB....it will be hit that direction....becuase direction is arbitrary and the mark follows with.
you want to shoot banks?
do the opposite i tell you for pocketing and swing them in with outside.....aiming at the left PAT point to bank to left but right hand side of shafts on it with right english and so on so forth
THATS IT......thats how i play pool...yall been asking for years. theres the whole dam answer and how to explain it to a monkey.
Was fun while it lasted though.
-Greyghost
pick a spot on the rail....or a piece of a partial pocket
stand right in fron the shot....look at the pat point......go to where your OB is....in relation to shot....and strike it as seen....
another reason is because there was never and it doesn't matter how the stupid lights are....or where the dam pockets are either.
notice the PAT in any direction....go to CB....it will be hit that direction....becuase direction is arbitrary and the mark follows with.
you want to shoot banks?
do the opposite i tell you for pocketing and swing them in with outside.....aiming at the left PAT point to bank to left but right hand side of shafts on it with right english and so on so forth
THATS IT......thats how i play pool...yall been asking for years. theres the whole dam answer and how to explain it to a monkey.
Was fun while it lasted though.
-Greyghost
that would be just a guess yes. CIT ranges are not = among all cut shots.
i never really much understood all this crazy swerve people experience....maybe when i decide for some fool reason to get way outside the ball....
my english is used as help not the mule that pulls the cart.
i slow roll cut shots from the center or next half diamond up one ball width off end rail and cut them into the side pocket......complete stroke full roll of ball....i shoot soft shots very well actually.
many of the things like this i get asked they are no big deal or issue .....because theres no pivot and my use of english and alignment are the true overlaps if thats what i was looking at ( i dont.....balls schmalls)
i do spot shots slow or fast.....walk in and drop in one long smooth motion settling like a square rock.........at worst i'm just imagining my cradle hand finishing and knuckle of index fingers touching that point......but i dont aim with something i cant see really but i like the image in my mind for my hand......visualy i'm straight in.....i just send the side of the shaft which is the side of the CB as well even tho the CB is of no consequence to me.....and yall aiming and i'm playing pin the tale on the donkey with no blind fold.
its very very rare that i undercut a ball.....it will be thin as frogs hair and ill over cut the shot before i'm libel to under cut it.......most that i've taught this too seem to experience the same....missing more on the pro side when they do.
theres nothing really that you are doing or looking at that will induce that besides having a unaccurate stroke, alignment or to much english etc.....
the "pat points" are visually on the cloth not on the ball.....
this is why i need to do a really long article.....because the questions like that.....are of so many minds like how many of us shoot daily....with so many questions to answer.....
dont get me wrong this is no "system" where i'm telling you to for this shot, use X english and pivot out and point to BFE and pretend like your aligned......it totally works but by bastardizing a true alignment with that pivot.....
Hal was right about the pivot.....but not just the top players, nearly everyone does this....
we do this because subconscioulsy were looking for something else besides the contact point on the OB for a reference.....and you can make alot of things work but doesn't mean its not counter intuitive in application....
theres a whole thought process to a system.....and knowing that you use the right side of the shaft for a right cut....well i mean....common sense tells us that wether your using this method or not.....i do not have to survey and find anything that wasn't alreay there for everyeone else since this games had lights.
like the idea of say shooting a slow or drag shot with a bunt, or being able to use a full stroke for any shot....... i dont like learning or teaching with a bunch of asterisks and constant changes because its just getting you there by program with a dance routine and a consistent movement but an inconsistent aim after all the movings done.
lot of people i have seen use it still get the heeby jeebies from time to time over the "sight" of what they are looking at......because those methods are looking at the cue and body......and rigging it to match which must be the reason for all the variables from shot to shot....it very much makes sense to me that it works....just not good sense.....its basically a independent version of CTE that i figured for Pat on the rail shots....but it was hackery imop. It led me to see this later which i even then saw the linkage of the two, then CTE.....now I"m guessing pro one......
i'm really not trying to down play anything anyones done.....this stuff is hard to do....and rationalize for many much less visualize when tlaking about it.....really diff in person....
but because of all that i can see how me having this particualr point, that is the "pat point" i talk about, but itsn't that point at all at the same time.........none of the others have this.....
all that extra time not worring about balls and just my rythm speed and spin and pin the needle pin the needle....
again tho seriously i dont mean ban English
VERY SERIOUS QUESTION does CTE or Pro one the SEE or name it...CAN they wanted to aim the ball to go to just a particular spot on the rail on a cut and stop....can it aim for partially covered barely passable spaces that aren't CENTER of pocket?
my method can....john doesn't know this yet....i haven't told anyone but Pat about this. I can pick anyspot
You are right. I asked you having the "swerve" in mind.
Do you think Reyes and Bustamante swerve the cue ball on every shot ?
YES....so does CJ......
go reread all the stuff people shit on CJ about......he felt correlation.
he even came out and said about shadow methods few years after my post that yes they do work, and yes the light doens't matter....but didn't know why......
this is just like that commercial where the woman gets the check for good driving.....but women arnt' good drivers......and in the dark deep voice she says SILENCE...before he can say anymore seemingly intelligent things.
alot of people are owed some apolologies imop.....im not even going to say anymore as the crow pie will serve itself now.
and maybe we can take this bullshit aiming conversations to a new level and finally start answering the real questions.
like this statement from my page:
why do we do what we do and see what we see? Often making patches to methods making them more complicated because we have never understood the correlation between the geometry and the perceptual vision.
It is confusing in the mind.
The game is on a planar surface.......and we explain much of it in 2d fashion, though we are using spheres.....this is where all the wheels fall off for most players.....they have never really been aiming at anything, and if they do it its very counter intuitive at the end of the day, which is why you see experienced players still haveing confidence issues with where to hit the ball
....where to aim the ball.
I ask merely WHY DO YOU AIM THE BULLET WHEN YOU HAVE A RIFLE IN YOUR HAND......and why do we generally see EVERYONE aiming with to huge rocks instead of a small pointing like device typically referred to as a pool cue at a small VISUSUALLY Recognizable point......thats ALWAYS there....and FOLLOWS you around the table.....that can also show you how to hit pieces of a pocket, or any spot on table.
Why do we struggle so....and walk around aimlessly looking but never understanding and claim to have seen.
How can that be so?
these are the things i have asked myself over the years......NOT HOW.....BUT WHY!
the other side of the thought is not making people understand......CTE tells you how....but why? Puffff now your lost again.....never more doth say the raven.
i think profoundly when i'm lucky....and it has a habit of giving me profound answers.
-Greyghost
Ok, thank you.
the method leads you to the core of the ball and english is more or less TOI as CJ explains in his methods.....i learned toi in oklahoma years ago.....
using minute quantities of english that take the swerve out of the shot.....because of how you enter into and hit the shot
not entering and then adjusting.....like its an after thought....because it is.
modes upon modes stacked to make something work right doesn't necessarliy make it better than anything else....that said it also doesn't mean that something more complicated has no merit or doesn't work either.
but i'm not figuring out anyone elses stuff for them......i can see a possible link to that side.....but i didn't make this for that...
cant even sell this crap.....unless people would like me to put it on a flier and charge them 50cents......if you like it that much i'll print out the doodles on nice paper as more a keepsake and maybe a nice frame or some crap then i could sell yall something if you like lol....
dont worry its not going to keep me up at night lol
using minute quantities of english that take the swerve out of the shot.....because of how you enter into and hit the shot
not entering and then adjusting.....like its an after thought....because it is.
modes upon modes stacked to make something work right doesn't necessarliy make it better than anything else....that said it also doesn't mean that something more complicated has no merit or doesn't work either.
but i'm not figuring out anyone elses stuff for them......i can see a possible link to that side.....but i didn't make this for that...
cant even sell this crap.....unless people would like me to put it on a flier and charge them 50cents......if you like it that much i'll print out the doodles on nice paper as more a keepsake and maybe a nice frame or some crap then i could sell yall something if you like lol....
dont worry its not going to keep me up at night lol
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CTE is not mechanical in the least and those that really understand CTE know so. And furthermore I think it is a joke that you
think I do not understand perception.....
Stan Shuffett
think I do not understand perception.....
Stan Shuffett
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im not trying to say you dont understand perception stan....you understand it full well....
its not about perception stan......if you look at what i sent you and you get on the table you will see that point that correlates with everything....
and proves your system actually works....you know HOW PJ and everyone said it cant......remember that stan......
calm your nerves pal...i'm on your side.....you just more complicated than myself thats ok.
your stuff, hals, cjs toi, see, my shit.....its why it works.
but i called all this ruffled panties garbage.....any way ive always been a supporter of all these methods.....and thats a fact you can go back for years on here with me stating as such.
this aint about HOW.......its about why. because as we all know the HOW can be done a hell of a lot of differing way now can it.
all get you to the same spot.......so what point were you trying to make again?
im only saying no one realized the commonality besides the end result between the groups......so either people knew and decided to build a huge machine around it.....or they didn't know....and i'm not about to question a very intelligent mans intelligence......
because coming onto this it made me question how f'n stupid any of us could be that for oh idont know 200 years we aint talked about it YET at least never publicly...... when it was right IN FRONT OF US THE WHOLE GOT DAM TIME
now we can be civil.....or you can turn this into an ego trip if you like.....
you can even down play he doodle all you like......wont make one got dam bit of skin or difference to me. I seek knowledge for knowledge sake not any self serving personal or financial gain......if i were i'd be fishing for the moon in the water.....
people said dont say nothing about it because i'm going to piss off alot of people.
I HAVE NO CARE FOR ANYONES EMOTIONS regarding the subject....take the info or cry yell and scream i dgaf.
i dont have to be cynical jaded or pissed because someone dont like it.....i'm not proving anyone wrong (except naysayers that have been bashing your old butt for years)....at worst youve been proven right. So at least you should read and perceive the facts of that.
if CTE isnt mechanics.....then why pivot? but again as iv'e mentioned multiple times so i could be clear...but aparantly i wasn't clear enough.....there is nothing inheriently wrong with it by any means.....its more involved thats it.
i'm not rick so check yourself stan......keeb doesn't play that shit.
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Sending me a PM and commenting negatively about my work drew me in for this one time.....I had planned on keeping every thought to myself about your work. I will sign off by agreeing with PJ that what you have presented is a waste of time. Please leave me and my work out of your posts and do not send me any more PMs.
Stan Shuffett
If I tell you that I hit the cue ball with a "1/4 turn" of my wrist, can you tell me in how many ways I can do that ? How many "1/4 turns" ?
Four, right ?
1. Inside to straight
2. Straight to outside
3. Straight to inside
4. Outside to straight
Have you ever noticed that Francisco Bustamante hits the ball like that ?
I am not saying it's the way to play. I am saying that you can play with cue ball swerve (and swerve the object ball to the pocket......).
You know how to use your technique, and I know how to use mine.
No problem sir.
But don't think you know everything about this stuff. I don't know everything, but I know some things for sure.
oh ok good, move along then....ill not mention you anymore....as i said prior this aint about u......or pj lol
lol pj....the guy who signs off on things without research or trying....he was the first genius i sent the video and the doodle....was i supposed to be caught off guard by anyone? PHA.....makes me laugh man
and Just like Patrick Johnson i'm still wondering when someones going to say how to hit pieces of a non center of a pocket or arbitrary points that aren't pocket centers with other systems...
i can with this method.....no ones botherd to ask that really lol
how times and people change lol
point taken stan. take care up there
lol pj....the guy who signs off on things without research or trying....he was the first genius i sent the video and the doodle....was i supposed to be caught off guard by anyone? PHA.....makes me laugh man
and Just like Patrick Johnson i'm still wondering when someones going to say how to hit pieces of a non center of a pocket or arbitrary points that aren't pocket centers with other systems...
i can with this method.....no ones botherd to ask that really lol
how times and people change lol
point taken stan. take care up there
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yes and it shows alot in banking......where its actually even more useful.....its harder to move the rock to positions with straight in and out angles off the rails and using english....many find it easier to twist it and gain more control of the CB's action....plus its how you make a ball curve pretty good into and towards the hole.....
there was a big debate on the whole making a ball curve thing......i never said jack about it....cuz people gonna holler lol
and no i dont know everything for certain.....this aint a system....its a method.
thats what some aint getting when they get pissy.....others created a system....i made a method and theres a difference a huge got dam difference.