Shafts breaking, suggestion?

donuteric said:
Kurt, I think members here are just expressing the truth. Some might have written in a way that provokes unnecessary misunderstandings among members on this forum, but they simply stated the truth. If you're convinced that these laminated shafts don't fit into your routine, then I'd recommend to get a Mezz shaft. They are high quality LD shafts.

The truth is, however, in within your stroking ability. Replace the shaft, if needed, but pay particular attention to how it happened.
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Mezz shaft...cool, thanks for the recommendation. Fixing my stroke is going to take a while, and I need a shaft in the meantime...so as long as I can find a low deflection shaft that won't break on me, then I can concentrate on fixing the stroke.

edit- I checked the mezz website..there are 4 shafts...

wd700
hybrid pro II
alpha hybrid
deep impact pro

Do you have any experience with these shafts..what are the primary differences? It's hard to determine that from the description on their website..
 
To answer your question about low deflection shafts that may be more stable with your particular stroke, I would 1st talk to Royce at OB about their OB classic line of shafts and explain your problem. He is a great guy and stands behind his products.

Secondly, there have been a few threads about ferruless shafts that are standard maple shafts without ferrules that have some LD results, that might be your best bet since you believe the breakage is because of the lamination in the shaft and the drilled top part. You would have to do a search or maybe someone can point you in the right direction. I think I have read there were 2 or 3 folks making these kinds of shafts.

Good luck.

Dave
 
Drew said:
It's easier with a closed bridge because you're forcefully holding the shaft low to table. But you shouldn't be adjusting to a bad stroke. Don't raise your elbow or stand up mid-stroke. Do you notice yourself miscueing a lot when drawing with an open bridge? Or shooting a "draw" shot which doesn't draw?

When you can draw the ball just as well with an open bridge, then you'll have that little problem solved.

FWIW: The Tim Scruggs shaft you were using is much stronger than the 314 because it's a single solid piece of wood. Scruggs isn't known for using sh1t wood in his cues either.
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No- I just see my accuracy decrease when I use an open bridge on long draw shots. However, I did use to have a problem when I drew balls with a closed bridge, that I would end up jumping the cue ball over the object ball inadvertenly.

Makes sense what you said about the Scruggs shaft...is there such a thing as a low deflection shaft that is made with a single solid piece of wood?
 
12squared said:
To answer your question about low deflection shafts that may be more stable with your particular stroke, I would 1st talk to Royce at OB about their OB classic line of shafts and explain your problem. He is a great guy and stands behind his products.

Secondly, there have been a few threads about ferruless shafts that are standard maple shafts without ferrules that have some LD results, that might be your best bet since you believe the breakage is because of the lamination in the shaft and the drilled top part. You would have to do a search or maybe someone can point you in the right direction. I think I have read there were 2 or 3 folks making these kinds of shafts.

Good luck.

Dave
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Ferruless shaft? Never seen/heard of it. I'm not sure, other than my crappy stroke, of what's causing the breaks...but it does seem as if I need a solid single piece shaft to avoid breaks in the future.

When I started using a 314-2 shaft instead of the Scruggs shaft, it felt as if I started getting much better english. It seems I can draw the ball a lot further with the 314-2 compared to the Scruggs..which is why I swapped.

I know stroke has the most to do with how far you can draw a ball...but I thought tips usually made the most difference...but I'm thinking now the shaft plays a big part of that too....so if you can point me towards a shaft that can give me the same draw as a 314-2, that's what I really need.
 
Kurt said:
Mezz shaft...cool, thanks for the recommendation. Fixing my stroke is going to take a while, and I need a shaft in the meantime...so as long as I can find a low deflection shaft that won't break on me, then I can concentrate on fixing the stroke.

edit- I checked the mezz website..there are 4 shafts...

wd700
hybrid pro II
alpha hybrid
deep impact pro

Do you have any experience with these shafts..what are the primary differences? It's hard to determine that from the description on their website..
Click to expand...

Deep impact pro is used for breaking. I've tried all; wd700 and HPII are my favorites, but I play with wd700 most of the times. There are tons of reviews, compare and contrast posts here on AZ about these different Mezz shafts.

Find these threads in the following link. You may filter out those in the Wanted/For Sales section.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&...=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=fe12a09bb5068841
 
I have never heard of anyone breaking a shaft during a shot. This is a first.:confused:
I have heard of,,,,,and seen some ,,,break them after a shot!!! lol:)

I like to see it on video please. OK thats not gona happen,,but what about that stroke you have,,can I/we see that on video??
 
Kurt said:
Ferruless shaft? Never seen/heard of it. I'm not sure, other than my crappy stroke, of what's causing the breaks...but it does seem as if I need a solid single piece shaft to avoid breaks in the future.

When I started using a 314-2 shaft instead of the Scruggs shaft, it felt as if I started getting much better english. It seems I can draw the ball a lot further with the 314-2 compared to the Scruggs..which is why I swapped.

I know stroke has the most to do with how far you can draw a ball...but I thought tips usually made the most difference...but I'm thinking now the shaft plays a big part of that too....so if you can point me towards a shaft that can give me the same draw as a 314-2, that's what I really need.
Click to expand...

Take the time to go through some articles by Dr. Dave.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/index.html

Start from articles 29 to 26.
 
donuteric said:
Deep impact pro is used for breaking. I've tried all; wd700 and HPII are my favorites, but I play with wd700 most of the times. There are tons of reviews, compare and contrast posts here on AZ about these different Mezz shafts.

Find these threads in the following link. You may filter out those in the Wanted/For Sales section.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&...=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=fe12a09bb5068841
Click to expand...

I saw someone say the HPII is the best shaft for a 314-2 player, so that might be the shaft for me.

What's your opinion on the HPII vs. the OB-1? I don't have the luxury of trying both out...

And, to divert the conversation a little bit..I might just end up buying a new stick altogether...the Scruggs butt is a bit warped and I wouldn't mind trying out a new stick...I don't care what it looks like, just how it feels when shooting. I've heard excellent things about how the P3 feels, but at 800 bucks..it's too expensive..any suggestions? Thanks for all the help!
 
flash5153 said:
I have never heard of anyone breaking a shaft during a shot. This is a first.:confused:
I have heard of,,,,,and seen some ,,,break them after a shot!!! lol:)

I like to see it on video please. OK thats not gona happen,,but what about that stroke you have,,can I/we see that on video??
Click to expand...

Err, maybe I'll have someone tape my draw shot and I can link it. But everybody tells me the same thing..they haven't ever seen someone break a shaft on a stroke...and it just makes me feel like crap :P
 
Kurt said:
Ferruless shaft? Never seen/heard of it. I'm not sure, other than my crappy stroke, of what's causing the breaks...but it does seem as if I need a solid single piece shaft to avoid breaks in the future.

....so if you can point me towards a shaft that can give me the same draw as a 314-2, that's what I really need.
Click to expand...

Kurt,

After a quick search I found this review of a ferrule-less shaft made by Cash Cues http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=156882, but I believe there are others making them. I would go to ask a cuemaker section and ask about them there.

Dave
 
Kurt said:
Ferruless shaft? Never seen/heard of it. I'm not sure, other than my crappy stroke, of what's causing the breaks...but it does seem as if I need a solid single piece shaft to avoid breaks in the future.
I've only broken one shaft. It split the length the of the shaft during a break shot. I have broken many tenons (all on break shots). Personally, I hate LD shafts anyway.

When I started using a 314-2 shaft instead of the Scruggs shaft, it felt as if I started getting much better english. It seems I can draw the ball a lot further with the 314-2 compared to the Scruggs..which is why I swapped.
This is totally in your head. Any difference in spin between shafts is negligible. Tip and stroke have more to do with this than anything. A harder or softer ferrule will change the feel of the shot. LD shafts are supposed to help accuracy with off-center shots (side-spin).

I know stroke has the most to do with how far you can draw a ball...but I thought tips usually made the most difference...but I'm thinking now the shaft plays a big part of that too....so if you can point me towards a shaft that can give me the same draw as a 314-2, that's what I really need.
Click to expand...

I say you use the Scruggs shaft. You can experiment with different tips to calibrate spin. Solid wood LD shafts don't exist (AFAIK). LD shafts work by manipulating the grain in the wood.

Remember that the tip is in contact with the CB for a fraction of a second. In this time, you apply all the spin. The coefficient of friction of the tip and the angle which they make contact is all that can possibly affect the motion of the ball.
 
Kurt said:
I saw someone say the HPII is the best shaft for a 314-2 player, so that might be the shaft for me.

What's your opinion on the HPII vs. the OB-1? I don't have the luxury of trying both out...

And, to divert the conversation a little bit..I might just end up buying a new stick altogether...the Scruggs butt is a bit warped and I wouldn't mind trying out a new stick...I don't care what it looks like, just how it feels when shooting. I've heard excellent things about how the P3 feels, but at 800 bucks..it's too expensive..any suggestions? Thanks for all the help!
Click to expand...

I'd disagree. I believe WD700 plays more comparable to 314. I don't have a lot of experience with OB to comment. I also don't like recommending cues to people. If I had to, go with Mezz because I am, like many are, mezz'ed up. :thumbup:
 
mezz

if youre going to choose a ld mezz shaft the wd700 is more like the 314 than the hybrid
 
Wow..... a lot of really good advice here in response to your querry. Some of the best seem to be the ones you respond to glibbly or get angry at. Seriously.....and sincerely, before you ask a question make sure you are ready to hear some answers.... and some of the best answers come in the form of things you don't want to hear. You don't want to hear what you don't want to change, and quickly dismiss it. Open your mind to all the knowledge here in this unbelievable forum... you seem extremely close minded in your search.

Watch some tapes of Nick Varner, or a lot of the Philipino players.... a soft stroke goes a long way. Learn new routes to roll the ball, play better position. Just a few observations from a hack. Hope you can use them.
Good luck.

td
 
In my experience, if you are breaking shafts because you are pushing down on them too much, that means theres a lot of body movement and one could assume that maybe you are pushing a lot of power into the cue ball for these draw shots... A lot of power isn't usually necessary for a draw shot on a bar box, and if you are playing on like a 9 foot table there are better ways to get around the table than knocking the feet off of a 9 foot draw shot... Maybe try experimenting with some different methods of cue ball manipulation... High english with variations of right and left mixed in only require that you know how to do the shot... It may look a little more complicated to let the ball roll 3 rails for shape instead of hitting that 9 foot draw shot, but often times players will get better results and their equipment will last much longer :) I personally saw a huge improvement to my game with I let my stroke out and starting using tangent lines and ball paths to make shape instead of trying to hit monster draw shots...
 
BlackMamba said:
In my experience, if you are breaking shafts because you are pushing down on them too much, that means theres a lot of body movement and one could assume that maybe you are pushing a lot of power into the cue ball for these draw shots... A lot of power isn't usually necessary for a draw shot on a bar box, and if you are playing on like a 9 foot table there are better ways to get around the table than knocking the feet off of a 9 foot draw shot... Maybe try experimenting with some different methods of cue ball manipulation... High english with variations of right and left mixed in only require that you know how to do the shot... It may look a little more complicated to let the ball roll 3 rails for shape instead of hitting that 9 foot draw shot, but often times players will get better results and their equipment will last much longer :) I personally saw a huge improvement to my game with I let my stroke out and starting using tangent lines and ball paths to make shape instead of trying to hit monster draw shots...
Click to expand...

Tap Tap Tap, this has really helped me improve my lousy game!

Mike
 
I say practice drawing the cue ball with an open bridge. You can't force the cue into the table if you use an open bridge. So, if you get your stroke to the point where drawing the cue ball with an open bridge is easy (using a nice fluid stroke rather than over powering it), then you're probably stroking good enough that you don't need to dig the shaft into the table after you draw with a closed bridge.
 
Kurt,

The OB Classic is a solid LD shaft, no hollow spot, and it's very strong. Not only that, you can let out your power strokes with confidence. For a power player, this is a good solid shaft and in my experience, plays with very little adjustment to a 314-2.

I broke the end off a 314 myself. They're weak at the end, probably because they're hollow. Also, the ferrule is weak. At the time, I was playing with a rigidly pinned elbow and a closed bridge, which causes the tip to dive on follow through. The players who let their elbow drop on follow through won't have this issue.

Anyway, that's what I suggest.

Chris
 
grindz said:
Wow..... a lot of really good advice here in response to your querry. Some of the best seem to be the ones you respond to glibbly or get angry at. Seriously.....and sincerely, before you ask a question make sure you are ready to hear some answers.... and some of the best answers come in the form of things you don't want to hear. You don't want to hear what you don't want to change, and quickly dismiss it. Open your mind to all the knowledge here in this unbelievable forum... you seem extremely close minded in your search.

Watch some tapes of Nick Varner, or a lot of the Philipino players.... a soft stroke goes a long way. Learn new routes to roll the ball, play better position. Just a few observations from a hack. Hope you can use them.
Good luck.

td
Click to expand...

I'd really suggest re-reading this entire thread, because you're incorrect. I never once got "glibbly" or "angry" at anybody in this thread except Black-Balled, who clearly was belittling with the one liners from the beginning. I appreciate all the great feedback I've gotten so far.
 
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