Shane's side of the ferrule aiming adaptation.

[LAMas]

This is an adaptation of Shane's one example.
Any thoughts?:thumbup:

Shane aiming the side of the ferrule at the edge of the OB for a moderately thin cut shot.

Watch at 7:53 where Shane describes how he aims the side of the shaft/ferrule to the side of the OB on a cut shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3o1zKWQGWc

Expanding on that one example

I watched Shane’s example of aiming the edge of the ferrule at the outside edge of the OB and my take away, to expand on that one shot, are as follows:

I am sure that he aims the center of the CB to the center of the OB for a straight in shot, and that he aims the center of the CB to the edge about the equator (3:00 and 9:00) of the OB for the 30 degree cut.

Using the side of the cue shaft to aim for cuts greater than ~30 degrees will yield a predictable cut angle depending on the size of the ferrule. The difference between a 13mm and 11mm diameter ferrule are within 1 degree.

The fact that the edge (9:00 and 3:00) of the OB is used and is very observable is a plus...rather than a vague GB center.

If the cut is very thin say ~75 degrees, then the side of the shaft must be aimed a small distance outward from the edge of the OB.

This is useful info on how to achieve and vary the cut angle from the line of centers which my Acad geometric diagrams document diagrammed below.

Aim the sides of the ferrule to the center and to the right edge of the OB for cuts to the left. The right edge of the ferrule can be aimed at the right edge of the OB as can the left edge of the ferrule.

Reverse for cuts to the right.

Cut angles not diagrammed

For a 15 degree cut (not diagramed), aim the center of the shaft/ferrule at the ¾ spot between the center of the OB and it’s tight edge.

Most know that a straight in shot is the center of the CB to the center of the OB.

Also, the 30 degree cut angle is the center of the CB aimed at the right edge of the OB (3:00).

Since the side of the ferrule aiming gives one a 7-8 degree angle to either side respectively to the outside of the center of the ferrule aim.

That covers 7, 15, 23, 30 and 38 degree cut angles…one can aim a bit less than the side of the ferrule for angles in between or use outside english.

In order to achieve these geometric angles, one needs to apply a bit of outside english to effect gearing an prevent skidding that is effected by a center CB hit.

Changing the cut angle with outside english.

The amount of outside english will allow one to increase or decrease the cut angle up to +/- 4 degrees.

I measured the included angle between the line of centers (geometric angle) with slight outside english to no english for CTE and the included angle was 4 degrees less than the line of centers.

I then measured the included angle between the line of centers with extreme outside english for SIT and the included angle was also about 4 degrees greater than the line of centers.

Inside english

Aiming the edge of the ferrule at the outside edge of the OB and applying inside english yields approximately a 45 degree cut angle, but this will vary with the amount of english and speed.

Using parts of the ferrule for slightly different angles.

One can also use fractions of the ferrule from its center to its edge to alter the geometric line of centers (below) i.e., 1/8 or ¼ inside of the edge of the diameter of the ferrule etc..

 

[matteroner]

interesting ....My issue is that it is hard to look at the ball in two dimensions when you are playing i.e. a flat ball hovering between 9and3

also the distance between the cb and ob will affect the calculations if english is used

I would like to see a 3 dimensional rendering of how we are supposed to be looking down the shaft of the cue and aiming to the OB. that would help make more sense in my mind.

 

[rrick33]

Shanes aiming approach

I'd be careful how far you go down the rabbit hole. Shane has apparently spent years training his brain to see the shot with certain aspects that are uncharacteristic of most aiming approaches. You will never achieve the same results without also spending considerable time and training and there's still no guarantee that your mental wiring will take to it with the same efficiency as Shanes.

If you are looking for a better approach, I would explore some of the numerous other strategies before investing considerable time in something as arbitrary as Shane's approach. I think many pros would have trouble deciphering Shane's aiming system.

 

[LAMas]

interesting ....My issue is that it is hard to look at the ball in two dimensions when you are playing i.e. a flat ball hovering between 9and3

also the distance between the cb and ob will affect the calculations if english is used

I would like to see a 3 dimensional rendering of how we are supposed to be looking down the shaft of the cue and aiming to the OB. that would help make more sense in my mind.

I only have Powerpoint for now. If I have time, I will try a perspective view in Acad at work.

 

[LAMas]

I'd be careful how far you go down the rabbit hole. Shane has apparently spent years training his brain to see the shot with certain aspects that are uncharacteristic of most aiming approaches. You will never achieve the same results without also spending considerable time and training and there's still no guarantee that your mental wiring will take to it with the same efficiency as Shanes.

If you are looking for a better approach, I would explore some of the numerous other strategies before investing considerable time in something as arbitrary as Shane's approach. I think many pros would have trouble deciphering Shane's aiming system.

I agree. He was asked to demonstrate how he aims...how do you demonstrate hitting a million balls? I don't think that he thinks about an aiming system anymore.

 

[champ2107]

I agree. He was asked to demonstrate how he aims...how do you demonstrate hitting a million balls? I don't think that he thinks about an aiming system anymore.

oh i bet he still uses those references... all you do is find a clear video of him shooting on youtube and on the right shot and angle and if the camera is in the right position you can see him using it, if you know what your looking for.

 

[Mikjary]

LAMas,

IIRC, Shane mentioned that he aims the center of the stick/ferrule to a point at the bottom of the object ball. This would be the contact point and is used up to about 15 degrees. This would add 4 more degrees possibly to your collection of angles (11-14 degrees).

He also touched briefly on using shadows to help pick out his target on the object ball. I don't know enough about Shane's aiming technique to comment on cut angles greater than 15 degrees except for one thing. In his TAR interview he mentioned aiming to the edge of the object ball. In his lesson video, it appeared he was aiming more at a contact point on the thin cuts, not just the edge. This may account for the small adjustments needed to fill in the angles not covered by your research.

This is different than the Mullen system and can be much more precise for many angles as there are more specific reference points. The addition of ignoring the cue ball, so to speak and aiming through it, is foreign to probably most PSRs. :grin: BTW, great diagrams!

Best,
Mike

 

[LAMas]

LAMas,

IIRC, Shane mentioned that he aims the center of the stick/ferrule to a point at the bottom of the object ball. This would be the contact point and is used up to about 15 degrees. This would add 4 more degrees possibly to your collection of angles (11-14 degrees).

He also touched briefly on using shadows to help pick out his target on the object ball. I don't know enough about Shane's aiming technique to comment on cut angles greater than 15 degrees except for one thing. In his TAR interview he mentioned aiming to the edge of the object ball. In his lesson video, it appeared he was aiming more at a contact point on the thin cuts, not just the edge. This may account for the small adjustments needed to fill in the angles not covered by your research.

This is different than the Mullen system and can be much more precise for many angles as there are more specific reference points. The addition of ignoring the cue ball, so to speak and aiming through it, is foreign to probably most PSRs. :grin: BTW, great diagrams!

Best,
Mike

Mike,
Thanks for your positive observations. I think that this (Shane's) is as good as 90/90 aiming without the parallax view that and CP to CP may present for some.

Hal said that there are two things that are not vague on the OB and they are the edges on the equator and the center (where the OB touches the felt) of the OB. These aim points are more discernible than the center of the GB to aim at.

The difference between the edge of a 13mm ferrule and an 11mm ferrule is one degree difference and will yield similar positive results regardless of the diameter of the ferrule one shoots with.

I hold that when the CB and the OB are very close together, that CP to CP or 90/inverse 90 is more accurate and more parsimonious than using the edge of the ferrule. One should use a bit of outside english to compensate for CIT to achieve the geometrically correct cut angle.

to effect the correct cut angle with this system, one must be able to recognize the geometric cut angle that this system yields and then to compensate for the other angles by using english or minimal offsets from the edge of the ferrule to the center or the edge of the OB with respect to a thick or thin cut angle.

The advantage of this system of aiming is that it doesn't require a specific distance of the bridge behind the CB or the pivot and the problems with parallax attendant with aiming to the side of the center of the CB back to center of the same.

Also the results of this system isn't dependant/affected by (as said) the distance of the bridge behind the CB as is CTE/pivot.

As always, thanks for your positive comments.:wink::thumbup:

 

[cfrandy]

I truly believe that there are players who have a natural ability to aim and pocket balls. It is not until they are asked, "how do you aim" when they say they use this system or that. I think that is what Shane is doing in this video. He's trying to explain his natural ability!
How did Willie Mosconi and Irving Crane learn to aim without a "system"? Of course when asked, Willie said he used fractional aiming (ghost ball). Just as did so many of the modern pros. I myself never used a system, but if you asked me...my answer would be the same as Willie's. I have always felt there are just 5 shots in aiming. 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full and thin (cover to cover). I could "adjust" these shots with throw when needed. However, I never felt this was a "system"...it just seemed natural!

 

[Gerry]

Like Mik said above.....SVB talks about aiming at the base of the ball. The reason for this.....I feel, is because it never changes. When trying to find the correct slice of the OB, I sometimes have issues when the numbers or the stripe on the OB is near my slice.....so, I just drop the line down from on the OB to the felt and it becomes clear to me. Obviously, edge to center is simple to aim because the ball contacts the felt at 6oclock.

I use basically Hal's version, but I aim everything with center ball, and aim thick or thin for spin.

On this subject>>> For 30 years I never tried systems or knew about them. I was looking for a lifelong cure of my aiming fault, which is an alignment geometry that causes me to always set up to the right of my target. Using a system helps me get aligned BEFORE i get down on the shot, and that is by far the best part of my system for me.

G.

 

[naji]

Like Mik said above.....SVB talks about aiming at the base of the ball. The reason for this.....I feel, is because it never changes. When trying to find the correct slice of the OB, I sometimes have issues when the numbers or the stripe on the OB is near my slice.....so, I just drop the line down from on the OB to the felt and it becomes clear to me. Obviously, edge to center is simple to aim because the ball contacts the felt at 6oclock.

I use basically Hal's version, but I aim everything with center ball, and aim thick or thin for spin.

On this subject>>> For 30 years I never tried systems or knew about them. I was looking for a lifelong cure of my aiming fault, which is an alignment geometry that causes me to always set up to the right of my target. Using a system helps me get aligned BEFORE i get down on the shot, and that is by far the best part of my system for me.

G.

Everyone keeps talking about how to aim, and how this system is better that that system, if you notice all pro players just go down few warm ups
and shoot and make the shot, they take a little more time standing up on harder cuts. The shot is already aimed for before they go down they know where to aim while standing up, when they go down they will be 99.9% in line due to the many hours of practice. I bet if someone close Shane's eyes after he bend over he will make at least 99% of the shots. The most important thing is when you warm up, is your last forward warm up stroke (just before pause) to be exactly 100% in line with the shot, many people just go down warm up, pause and shoot, not realizing last warm up stroke is the most critical. I was at a pool hall and saw a guy i'd say a C or B player shooting a spot shot hard trying to get CB hit side rail and stay down, he goes down and aim for long time in five times he makes it once, scratches two times walked over and asked him where is he aiming he said at the center of the pocket, so i did Dr. Dave trick put some saliva on OB i told him shoot it now, he made it, but scratched. Next shot i put different ball and told him to over cut it a little like aim at the edge of the pocket, he did i was surprised he made it 4 out of five times, scratched two times; that will be next lesson to prevent scratch and where to aim for that shot. Moral of the story, no matter what system you use or no system, if you do not know where to aim you will miss the shot unless your stroke is bad, you might make it with wrong aim. So pro players know all the facts about where to aim, so when they go down on a shot, 99.9% they are inline do not bother to worry about aiming system(s), when Shane was showing his aiming system he missed the shot, because he forgot to offset his aim for the shot he was trying, and also he tried to use "his system" of which he does not use naturally when he is in the zone.

 

[JB Cases]

I agree. He was asked to demonstrate how he aims...how do you demonstrate hitting a million balls? I don't think that he thinks about an aiming system anymore.

Well he did say that the aiming method is just a guide for him and locks him into the shot BUT that his real confidence comes from hitting 5000 balls a week when he was practicing that much.

Hal Houle showed me a stick method in 2002. I didn't listen to him.

In any event the whole point is that Shane is using his cue to help him aim. Other people like to use the balls to do it.

The basic thing is that Shane and those who use "systems" that have physical objects as real reference points develop a consistent and repeatable routing that becomes ingrained. At the end of the day that's all it is. Just a way to get into the shot that is reliable and more precise than guessing at the placement of an imaginary ball for most of those who try them.

But it is only a guide. Still got to hit a lot of balls to make sure it works and to make it effortless.

Thank you for all your efforts to diagram all these systems. I always find them helpful.

 

[LAMas]

oh i bet he still uses those references... all you do is find a clear video of him shooting on youtube and on the right shot and angle and if the camera is in the right position you can see him using it, if you know what your looking for.

When you get good at an aiming system, you will often do the aiming before you get down on the shot and it will not be evident to the causual observer, but that doesn't mean that one is not using a system.

I am a double the distance aim shooter and I see the doubled spot before I get down and position my stance accordingly...so thata would be imperceptable to the obsever that I am using a system to aim.

Thanks.:thumbup:

 

[LAMas]

I truly believe that there are players who have a natural ability to aim and pocket balls. It is not until they are asked, "how do you aim" when they say they use this system or that. I think that is what Shane is doing in this video. He's trying to explain his natural ability!
How did Willie Mosconi and Irving Crane learn to aim without a "system"? Of course when asked, Willie said he used fractional aiming (ghost ball). Just as did so many of the modern pros. I myself never used a system, but if you asked me...my answer would be the same as Willie's. I have always felt there are just 5 shots in aiming. 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full and thin (cover to cover). I could "adjust" these shots with throw when needed. However, I never felt this was a "system"...it just seemed natural!

Back in 1959 when I first picked up a stick and started to gamble in 9 ball ring games, I didn't know that there were systems of aiming. I did however, have good spacial comprehension and memory. I would look at a shot and the shape that I wanted and I would recall that I had the same or similar shot and so I would execute it as I remembered. I don't think that I focused on where my stick was aiming, but instead, I was recalling an image of the cue to CB and OB like in a picture.

Back in those days, there was one important shot and that was the spot shot and those that were good at that shot were those that aimed at the edge of the OB. Fractional aiming wasn't in the equation back then...for me save the straight in shot and the spot shot. The straight in shot was my warm up shot to hone my stroke until it was straight.

There were no teachers back then where I shot...don't feed the fish....sink or swim.:wink:

After awhile, the perceptions of the visual pictures recalled for the shot at hand came naturally and more accurate.

Thanks.:thumbup:

 

[LAMas]

Like Mik said above.....SVB talks about aiming at the base of the ball. The reason for this.....I feel, is because it never changes. When trying to find the correct slice of the OB, I sometimes have issues when the numbers or the stripe on the OB is near my slice.....so, I just drop the line down from on the OB to the felt and it becomes clear to me. Obviously, edge to center is simple to aim because the ball contacts the felt at 6oclock.

I use basically Hal's version, but I aim everything with center ball, and aim thick or thin for spin.

On this subject>>> For 30 years I never tried systems or knew about them. I was looking for a lifelong cure of my aiming fault, which is an alignment geometry that causes me to always set up to the right of my target. Using a system helps me get aligned BEFORE i get down on the shot, and that is by far the best part of my system for me.

G.

We are of like minds.:thumbup:

 

[LAMas]

Everyone keeps talking about how to aim, and how this system is better that that system, if you notice all pro players just go down few warm ups
and shoot and make the shot, they take a little more time standing up on harder cuts. The shot is already aimed for before they go down they know where to aim while standing up, when they go down they will be 99.9% in line due to the many hours of practice. I bet if someone close Shane's eyes after he bend over he will make at least 99% of the shots. The most important thing is when you warm up, is your last forward warm up stroke (just before pause) to be exactly 100% in line with the shot, many people just go down warm up, pause and shoot, not realizing last warm up stroke is the most critical. I was at a pool hall and saw a guy i'd say a C or B player shooting a spot shot hard trying to get CB hit side rail and stay down, he goes down and aim for long time in five times he makes it once, scratches two times walked over and asked him where is he aiming he said at the center of the pocket, so i did Dr. Dave trick put some saliva on OB i told him shoot it now, he made it, but scratched. Next shot i put different ball and told him to over cut it a little like aim at the edge of the pocket, he did i was surprised he made it 4 out of five times, scratched two times; that will be next lesson to prevent scratch and where to aim for that shot. Moral of the story, no matter what system you use or no system, if you do not know where to aim you will miss the shot unless your stroke is bad, you might make it with wrong aim. So pro players know all the facts about where to aim, so when they go down on a shot, 99.9% they are inline do not bother to worry about aiming system(s), when Shane was showing his aiming system he missed the shot, because he forgot to offset his aim for the shot he was trying, and also he tried to use "his system" of which he does not use naturally when he is in the zone.

Good observation and I concur.:thumbup:

 

[LAMas]

Well he did say that the aiming method is just a guide for him and locks him into the shot BUT that his real confidence comes from hitting 5000 balls a week when he was practicing that much.

Hal Houle showed me a stick method in 2002. I didn't listen to him.

In any event the whole point is that Shane is using his cue to help him aim. Other people like to use the balls to do it.

The basic thing is that Shane and those who use "systems" that have physical objects as real reference points develop a consistent and repeatable routing that becomes ingrained. At the end of the day that's all it is. Just a way to get into the shot that is reliable and more precise than guessing at the placement of an imaginary ball for most of those who try them.

But it is only a guide. Still got to hit a lot of balls to make sure it works and to make it effortless.

Thank you for all your efforts to diagram all these systems. I always find them helpful.

Thanks for the thanks and your astute posts based on your experience and success.

I know that I would now be a better shooter having been exposed the the plethora of aiming systems now on the internet, but alas I don't put in the time to improve for I have chosen to make more money working in engineering to support my family after I got married.:wink:

I am lucky to be unlucky to be any good at pool. I do understand the rudiments of the game though and try to help get the information out there as best that I can as do you...you are better though. I don't have the exposure to the great players or the experience with the old Masters as do you.

I am fortunate to live in LA and have been exposed and coached by the local and visiting pros from the Philipines as they pass through the Hard Times, but you are in Asia and can converse with the emerging talent there as well as those from Europe that pass through.

You are a valued poster and I am glad that you havent been banned.:wink::thumbup:

Thanks again.

 

[LAMas]

i was asked to expand on some shots that lie between the side of the ferrule aiming. They are the common stick aiming shots that most already know - Straight in shot = 0 degrees; center of CB and ferrule to 1/4 OB and CTE and the angles that they yield.

All cuts are to the left - reverse for cuts to the right:

Center of the CB/ferrule to the center of the OB
Left edge of the ferrule to the center of the OB
Center of the ferrule to the 1/4 OB
Right edge of the ferrule to the right edge of the OB
CTE
Left edge of the ferrule to the right edge of the OB



Just saying.:thumbup:

 

[LAMas]

I was asked how I interpret CTE:



My interpretation of 1/8, A, B, C and OB edge:

 

[cfrandy]

I was asked how I interpret CTE:

View attachment 212694

My interpretation of 1/8, A, B, C and OB edge:

View attachment 212695

It amazes me how something as simple as aiming has gotten so complicated!