"Shifty Bridge??"

What's next? Gonna have to 'define' what a table 'actually' is?? What is cloth, really?? Is chalk really chalk? How about balls? Put a bridge on each table and just say that's it, that's what we're using so deal with it. I've never seen any of this goofy shit in person so hopefully some level of sanity still exists in the game.
The rules either tell you how to play the game in a manner that allows everybody to play it the same way or they do not.

Without comprehensive rules, people make up things as they go, and that's absolutely fine. Nothing wrong with that. But make no mistake, everybody isn't playing the same game at that point.
 
The rules either tell you how to play the game in a manner that allows everybody to play it the same way or they do not.

Without comprehensive rules, people make up things as they go, and that's absolutely fine. Nothing wrong with that. But make no mistake, everybody isn't playing the same game at that point.
Maybe you could be the WPA's 'Conforming Bridge List' supervisor. Based on this: https://www.google.com/search?clien...cYLCkUQ0pQJegQIDhAB&biw=1408&bih=653&dpr=1.36 You got your work cut out. ;)
 
Maybe you could be the WPA's 'Conforming Bridge List' supervisor. Based on this: https://www.google.com/search?clien...cYLCkUQ0pQJegQIDhAB&biw=1408&bih=653&dpr=1.36 You got your work cut out. ;)


Exactly the point. Right now we have no way to consistently decide which of those are legal and which are not.

But again, it's not just about the bridge. It's about whether the rules are written in such a manner that they allow everybody to play the game the same way when confronted with the same circumstances.

That's we have rules in the first place. To tell us how to play the game.
 
Again, it's not just about the bridge. It's about whether the rules are written in such a manner that they allow everybody to play the game the same way when confronted with the same circumstances.

That's we have rules in the first place.
IMO that's what a good tourn. director/promoter is for. I really don't care what the rules/regs. are as long as they're spelled out beforehand and enforced on the spot. Don't need the WPA in most cases.
 
While waiting for my match opp, I played a few games with a very nice young lady. We played on a 9ft. table and she was of Petite stature so I stuck her with a long shot down table. Expecting her to reach under for the table bridge, she goes and whips out this thing and attaches it to her cue. I never seen one before. Is this common? Do you or someone you know use it??
Curious to know,....
Shifty Bridge
These are now on the market, and work much better than the Shifty Bridge.
 
IMO that's what a good tourn. director/promoter is for. I really don't care what the rules/regs. are as long as they're spelled out beforehand and enforced on the spot. Don't need the WPA in most cases.
I don't necessarily disagree.

As long as we don't mind people playing a completely different game from region to region, town to town, or even room to room.

There really isn't anything wrong with that but I think that it does impact the growth of the game a bit, especially if the intent is to grow nationally or even internationally.
 
now just make the solid rest for the butt of the cue and then after you line it up you can't miss.
 
better yet just have a vertical attachment for the rear of a normal bridge that is v shaped. to rest the butt in. then you can just push forward and not have to stroke when over a ball or whenever you want.

i still like what was said earlier that you have two bridges on each table, and that is what you get to use.
 
I guess the question becomes, do you sacrifice clarity and consistency for brevity.

Compared to golf, pool is a relatively simple game that is played on a consistent, standardized playing surface under consistent conditions. There's no need to account for weather, different terrain, hazards, or even interference from outside agencies like animals.

The first step in getting consistently from people is giving them a set of rules that allows for that consistent play and does not allow for personal interpretation.
You seem to forget the "human element." People like to "spin" things to cater to themselves, (eg: Politics and Gossip). I could tell someone I broke a fingernail and by the time it went thru the Gossip mill, or is "spun" in politics; I either broke my finger ,or I broke someone else's arm.
 
We're talking about a bridge, a physical piece of equipment. I don't see grey areas here as opposed to the stroke/no stroke issue. I get the literal stroke/no stroke deal but the way its used is totally chicken shit. What is/isn't a bridge is pretty clear. Lets keep lawyers/lawyer-speak out of pool.
I get this BUT,......
Back in the 1980's, John Madden,(Then coach of the Oakland Raiders in the NFL), argued several times over ball possession after a fumble. OFTEN, the REF's called a change of possession after a ground caused fumble. Madden argued that the players knees were already down on the ground and the football came loose AFTER the player was considered "down." REF's ignored him for a whole season until it was brought to the NFL League office, Madden was eventually proven right. So much for lawyer speak. Changed the game. Ever since NFL has relied on instant replay.
Just sayin',.......
 
BCAPL, again having in my opinion a better and more helpful effort at rule elaboration, would certainly allow this bridge as they’re explicit about allowing wheels and a retaining mechanism for a groove (which a tube-like slot for the cue to rest should certainly qualify as)View attachment 728302

I think pool equipment needs a bit more official regulation to prevent just equipment from making the sport easier. I feel this way towards jump cues and any funky devices to make shots easier. IMHO any bridge should not have moving parts that don't lock during use, expect those used by players with a physical handicap. So a bridge with a movable handle or head is OK, as long as that is locked in place during the shot. Same thing with cue add-ons past non-movable extensions that are locked to the cue during use. It seems many things added are done to get around some difficulty to make the sport easier than it really should be. Without it being challenging it's no longer a sport, training wheels are taken off once someone learns to ride.
 
I think pool equipment needs a bit more official regulation to prevent just equipment from making the sport easier. I feel this way towards jump cues and any funky devices to make shots easier. IMHO any bridge should not have moving parts that don't lock during use, expect those used by players with a physical handicap. So a bridge with a movable handle or head is OK, as long as that is locked in place during the shot. Same thing with cue add-ons past non-movable extensions that are locked to the cue during use. It seems many things added are done to get around some difficulty to make the sport easier than it really should be. Without it being challenging it's no longer a sport, training wheels are taken off once someone learns to ride.
I am in agreement with you, but I started to wonder about all the old-heads with their favorite hard maple shafts. What did/do they think about the onset of low deflection shafts. Further, does yours and my attitude change ask we turn into those old-heads?
Is it not the purpose to innovate and make things easier? That would also include sports.
 
... Is it not the purpose to innovate and make things easier? That would also include sports.
Well, yes, but look at golf. It is forbidden to putt while straddling the ball -- both feet have to be on the same side of the line of the shot. You can't putt with a pool cue either even though it might work much better than a putter. There is a tradeoff to be decided between tradition and innovation.
 
There is a tradeoff to be decided between tradition and innovation.
Bob Jewett

Agreed, BUT that does not mean that someone else will try to change the game.
Back to my boyhood and the Football analogy.
1970's Football,............... was all about running backs Calvin Hill, Larry Csonka, Big John Riggins. It was smash-mouth football, all run, little pass.
Then comes coach Bill Walsh and the SF 49'ers. Predominately passing with more than the (then) 2 wideout receivers.
That changed Football, known as the west-coast offense it dominated the game.
So,
Suppose a majority rules new change in the game of pool??
Would such devices change the game? Think LD shafts, jump cues ,and Phenolic tips.
 
... 1970's Football,............... was all about running backs Calvin Hill, Larry Csonka, Big John Riggins. It was smash-mouth football, all run, little pass.
Then comes coach Bill Walsh and the SF 49'ers. Predominately passing with more than the (then) 2 wideout receivers.
That changed Football, known as the west-coast offense it dominated the game. ...
Was there a change in the rules or just a change in strategy?

Ronnie Allen was said to have revolutionized the game of one pocket by his overwhelming offense. I don't think any rule change was involved. Steven Hendry did the same for snooker because he hated safety play.

When the jump cue first became popular (1980s?) the "cues" looked little like cues with some being 18-inch rods with metal front ends. While they weren't completely banned, new specs were put in to make them more cue-like.
 
Well, yes, but look at golf. It is forbidden to putt while straddling the ball -- both feet have to be on the same side of the line of the shot. You can't putt with a pool cue either even though it might work much better than a putter. There is a tradeoff to be decided between tradition and innovation.

Exactly, once we gain enough experience from playing the sport, we could see and form opinions on where the line between keeping the sport pure and challenging and improvements in equipment, training and techniques.

The LD shaft is one of those. In my view it did not transform that way that the game is played, it did not make a very hard or impossible shot and make it possible, it changed how people learned to aim. The jump cue made a very hard shot trivial in the hands of beginners and made some jump shots that were impossible or nearly so, very possible. If we gave two new players a standard shaft and an LD shaft, in a week they would be close to each other in skill. If we gave two players that never jumped a ball before a jump cue and a normal cue to jump with, the player with the jump cue would be jumping balls in 30 minutes of practice while the other one would not be close to that in a week of practice. I know from personal experience, my son at 13 or so tried a jump cue for the first time, he cleared a full ball on his third shot. That is why I think the jump cue is over the line for allowable equipment.

Reaching for a shot due to the size of the table is another skill and obstacle in how the game was done. If we are using 62" cues with 6" extentions, with 6' tall players and rolling bridges, that makes the difficulty trivial again. The difficulty of the equipment is overcome by other equipment not skill. Keep in mind this is for sports, that all need to have some challenge in them. It's not like we are talking about better xray machines or medicine here for improving, it's a sport, designed from the get go as something that should be hard to do. If it's too easy it takes all the fun out of being good at it out. Look at pickleball and the people that make fun of it, it's because it's a simpler easier version of tennis that almost anyone can do. But if there was no tennis then it would just be seen as a normal sport.

I was just chatting with some of my friends last night about it, I was beating them all night long and I made a joke that I am in some sort of hell where I am just winning too easy and no matter what I do I still end up winning. It's true, I bet if we could do everything simply, there would be absolutely no joy or feeling of accomplishment in doing it. What is the point of beating players if it's so easy for someone? I guess if the point of the playing is to show off and feed the ego then it's one thing, but I would rather have a good tougher match where my time practicing and experience overcomes the other player, not because I bought a $50 piece of equipment. I would bet all of our (our meaning you fine folks on AZB) favorite matches were against tough opponents where it was back and forth and not against some D or C player that you beat 6-0 even though you made 20 mistakes.
 
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